RBC13C - Tenacious Turks (Deity)

[jack merchant]

Good to see we do have the money to rush settlers where appropriate, I guess we'll want one or two of our more corrupt towns to work on that. However, I don't see us generating enough pop points to get us over the domination limit all by ourselves - we'll have to capture *some* cities at least.

I agree with Caesar Augustus's plan of taking out the Rus after all, although once our forces get into stride I guess it will mostly be a matter of which enemy is most convenient next (and I doubt we'll be able to turn all that many of our newly conquered holdings into productive parts of our empire anyway).

 

[T_McC]

The whole object of the smaller wars (France, Germany, Poland, now the Magyars) was to capture a few cities and score a leader or two. Since we've captured 6 cities and had 3 of them flip to the Rus, plus we haven't gotten even one leader, this has been an abject failure. The plan was sound, but the execution was lacking due to no cooperation from the pRNG.

Feel free to attack the Rus. But first, just count how many Rus units are in our territory or adjacent to our cities. Don't be lulled into believing there will be a quick strike to knock them out (their other King cities besides Kiev are way up north). We didn't fight the "big boys" before now because our military was pathetic. Now that we have Sipahi we can be much more aggressive, but the other reason for attacking the Magyars now was to fight them with ~20 Sipahi, then when we turn on the Rus we'd have ~30 Sipahi, and when we attack the Byz we'd have ~40 Sipahi. Absolutely we have to attack the Rus soon, I suggested the Magyars because they do have a couple of cities we can use, the war shouldn't take more than 10 turns, and we might just catch a leader or two before we have to attack the Rus. But if you look over the situation and find that we'll have 10 Sipahi complete in the next 5 turns (or whatever is left in our GA, we only have 1 reg and 2 Elite Horses remaining for upgrade), then using the balance of our ROP with the Rus to position troops near their northern cities (and out of their territory) is probably more useful than fighting the Magyars. And if you buy in the Swedes against the Rus, buy the Magyars in as well.

The Rus don't have horses, so a war against them should be a slaughter. Berzerks don't look too good on defense. But it won't be quick.

I wouldn't worry so much about our VP total. If I understand this correctly, we don't get points for units/cities eliminated when a civ goes *poof*. So we won't get mondo points if we can semi-quickly eliminate the Rus. If that is not the case, and we do get those points ... we cannot win this game by domination, we'd get too many VP's by eliminating the Rus and Byz.

On tech, Polearms is nice, and we need Education for the uber-wonder for us, The Magna Carta (FP, free Town Halls in every city). Agreed Seamanship is not terribly useful, and Mercantilism and Milling really have no point. Religious Persecution also allows the Inquisition (FP, 2 unhappies). That is a small wonder that should be built in a city that has a Cathedral, or has enough food to hire specialists.

Divine Right is the proper tech to steal, look for the Abbasids to show up with it soon. We'll probably need to steal Parliament later to build the Magna Carta, but a pre-build via University or Palace is a must if we want that wonder.

 

[Justus II]

From several other threads, most recently the Kievan Rus victory, it looks like we DO get VP when the civ falls, as Germany's last city generated about 2,000 VP, and Fatimids over 1,000. Actually I think you get the VP for the units, but not the cities maybe, I'm not sure, but it is definitely more than just what that one king city is worth. Not saying we shouldn't keep going, just that we will have a better chance if we keep the number of counquered cities and civs to a minimum, and maybe try to get the pop and territory the old fashioned way. That probably still means finishing the Rus, then settling our way to the territory limit if we can.

 

[akots]

Originally posted by Justus II
From several other threads, most recently the Kievan Rus victory, it looks like we DO get VP when the civ falls ...

This is apparently correct. Not sure where these points come from. Apparently, hp of all remaining units count. May be a city also. Looks like you are running into the same problem as our Kievan Rus game had. 30K VP is just not enough for the difficulty level to win by some other means including Domination or Conquest. We have tried, got 11 leaders and 9 armies, eliminated 5 tribes (2 others were eliminated by AI) but in the end won by VP.

 

[Charis]

I wanted to check on a few items mentioned here, so I went to an old save and checked things out.

- I had not thought you get pts for all the other civ units. That does however happen in an "elimination" game, but this is "regicide". Or does it hold for all victory pt games???
- Beginning of 1233- 27835. 10 pts for a spear. 30 for Ansar (in other words, 1/2 their shields), 10 for spear at Oran. VP due to unit kill 10650, 14500 by conquest. When king died the cities went to ruins first before unit even advanced, so I don't think that city itself count. Pts by unit kill jumped to 12090, conquest to 14500. Oh my, wait. 0 pts for the last city in a conquest, as expected. 3850 pts or about 7700 shields.
- In germany now, 20 vp for pike putting us at 29345. Then 50 more for crusader, spear, longbow. Just the king left, then we go from 12160/14500/2735 (tot: 29395) to 13750/14500/2735 (tot: 30985). All unit kills, 1590 VP, which means 3180 shields.

This number is *different*, and probably matches the fact the the Germans were weakened alot already, while the poor Fatimids were fresh as daisies, with many units left.

So it seems like Fall or Rome or elimination, for regicide or any victory point scoring, elmination of a civ gets points for all their remaining units. Looks like my test to show that suggestion wrong backfired, it's true That makes it that much more *brutal* to try to build up then hit them hard, as the number of units most civs have now are rather large.

You get VP for all units left, no VP for the last city itself

In any case, good luck.
Charis

 

[Justus II]

Thanks for the confirmation, that is what appeared to be happening, but I wasn't sure. With that in mind, I think we need to look at what the possibilities are of taking out one more rival (Rus), then settling our way to domination? I haven't looked at the save, but with all the 'perpetual settling' in Russia, is there enough land to do it? Note, if we have to fight small wars to take out some encroaching cities, we should be OK, but no "Wars of Elimination" (after the Rus). What does the team think? Can we do it?

 

[Caesar_Augustus]

Pre-turn: Due to the recent discussion on VPs and eliminating civs, I change quite a few city builds to Settlers. Our only hope of winning by domination is to eliminate the Rus, quickly settle as much of their land as possible, and then cash-rush Granaries and then hospitals to take care of growth + tile expansion. This route will be hard, but we set Domination as our original goal and I think we should stick with it. It would be a cop out, IMO, to switch to a VP victory goal now.

IT: Magyars and England make peace.

1218 (1): Move freshly built settlers and Sipahi north. Attack two Pole MI with Elite Sipahi and . . . no leader. We've had absolotely horrid Leader luck this game. Perhaps it serves us right for depending on a leader to move our Palace. Darn Karma!

I make peace with the Poles, netting Polearms, 2g, WM, and a Worker. Time to check the total income of all of the civs with the 9999 gpt trick - note that this is their TOTAL income, ie all of their gold per turn from cities, taxmen, interest, and other civs BEFORE any of their expenses (corruption, science, etc . . .):

Abbasids: 1113 (!). Up *Divine Right*, Medicine, Invention, Education, Rel. Pers., Mercantilism, Milling, Seamanship. I hate them.
Byzantines: 735. Up Invention, Education, Rel. Pers., Mercantilism, Milling, Seamanship.
Turks: 567. Ummm, yeah.
Kievan Rus: 507. Up Rel. Pers., Mercantilism, Seamanship. Lack Horses.
Fatimids: 389. Up Medicine.
Sweden: 336. Up Seamanship.
Germany: 327. Up Mercantilism + Seamanship. Lacks Horses but won't give a tech for them.
France: 289. Even in tech.
Cordova: 189. Up Medicine, wants 1000g +100gpt for it.
Poles: 160. Even in tech.
England: 150. At War with us, and down Polearms.
Magyars: 148. Even in Tech.
Celts: 109. Down Code of Laws and Siegecraft.
Denmark: 91. At War with us, down Theology, Polearms, Middle Class.
Norway: 69. Even in tech. My god they have horrible homeland terrain to work with.

The Abbasids are obviously the runaway tech leader in this game. An immediate steal would cost 863g and net us Divine Right. However, I'm not going to do it. A) We need to avoid VPs. B) An immediate steal is too risky - we can't risk war with the Abbasids since our southern flank is too undefended. C) Robin Hood and Magna Carta are all well and good, but the shields required for those wonders would be much better used for Sipahi, especially since D) there are so few turns left in this game, that a Town Hall in every city doesn't have much of a benefit. Plus, considering the Diety trade ratio, I don't think we could get the other techs straight up for Divine Right anyway, we'd probably have to throw in GPT.

I make peace with England, netting 9g + WM. I make peace with the Danes, and have our choice of either Dankirke or Malaga for peace. Dankirke is a nice one-tile island, but it's right next to the Fatimid captial and would probably flip very soon. Malaga is right next to Rome, but it's a lower flip risk than Dankirke so we take it + 10g + 3gpt + WM for peace. Every little city helps with Domination. Malaga starts a sword. Spear-Pike upgrades cost 60g - I upgrade a few for our front lines.

Domination update: We're at 6% World Area, and 9% total pop. Byz are 12/15. We've got a long road ahead team. Looking at the Rus, I think we should attack the city of Kiev last out of all the 3 king cities. If we capture Kieve, their captial would jump to Isborsk, a more central location, and their total production would skyrocket.

I establish an embassy with Sweden and buy a RoP for WM + 30g.

IT: Denmark and Sweden ally vs Poland. See a few Rus spies move around - 2.2.1, ATR, potentially an annoying unit. I start a Cathedral in Ghuzz - we won't have at the end of this IT.

1221 (2): I sign a straight up RoP with the Magyars so I can move some Sipahi up North to hit the Rus King cities.

1224 (3): Continue to assemble our Northern attack force. The 20 turns on our RoP with the Kiev are up, but they didn't cancel it. This helps us move our troops into position more quickly. Peddle our WM around for 24g.

IT: The Rus come knocking and cancel our RoP.

1227 (4): More moving.

IT: Germany wants an Alliance vs the Fatimids - . Our Golden Age is over. Income down to 69gpt. Abbasids start Magna Carta.

1230 (5): More moving and building.

IT: Abbasids declare war on the Byz. Maybe we can poach those spices.

1233 (6): More moving and building.

IT: Magyars and Norway make peace. Magyars and Byz ally vs Denmark. Byz cancel our wines deal, and I renew for 20gpt. I know this hamstrings us in declaring war against them, but after 20 turns we can shift the bulk of our SIpahi south and take out their wines and spices cities. Abbasids start Robin Hood.

1236 (7): It's time. Here's my attack plan for the north:

Once Vitebsk and Novgorod fall, we can concentrate on Kiev and then it's bye-bye Rus.

I declare WAR on the Rus . I sign in the Swedes for 34gpt and the Magyars for 21gpt. I could have paid one of them in hard funds, but if they made peace with the Rus within a few turns we would have been ripped off big time. Gpt is the way to go.

We attack Vitebsk, killing 5 pikes, 2 Spears, 2 Zerks, 1 spy, 1 Inquisitor, and, of course, 1 king - and we lost 0 Sipahi. Two Sipahi promoted to Elite during the attack. Should we keep the city or raze it? Pros of keeping: Extra pop, able to heal our units if a rax survives. Cons: AI will flock to the city like moths to a flame, and we can't afford to have our Sipahi defend or attack sieging 'zerks; with INquisitors, the Rus could hit the city pretty hard fairly soon. I decide to capture-raze the city, selling its rax and market for 30g. Our Sipahi are now in Swedish land, so we can retreat a little bit, rest, and then regroup for the assault on Novgorod. We pick off some random Kiev units.

IT: The Abbasids demand TM + 55g! We have to cave, as we have no way to defend our southern flank against Ansars and Assassins. Cordova + Byz ally vs Abbasids. We lose a northwest Sipahi to an MI, and Inquisitors force two more to retreat and kill two. Another Inquisitor captures Gudme in the North - forgot to factor in their ATR for the northern defence. the sole Spear at Lublin defeats two spies. These ATR units are going to be a major PITA to defend against.

1239 (8): The two pole cities of Lublin and Lodz will fall to the Rus next turn, so I gift them to the Norwegians. I move our Sipahi away from the Rus border, deep into Swede territory, so they can heal. Kill a Rus sword, promoting to Elite.

IT: Germany and Poland make peace. Rus inquisitors and spies are everywhere, attacking full health Magyar units even if they only have 1hp left! Talk about fanatical. Ghuzz completes a cathedral and can hit 27spt: 3 turn Sipahi.

1242 (9): Kill two Inquisitors north of Sinop. Elite Sipahi kills a spy. Our main Northwest attack force rests, with one 3/5 unit killing a nearby 1hp spy. It should go without saying that none of our attacks generate a leader, because we're cursed and the RNG hates us. I'm starting to think that it's Odin that has cursed us, since we switched from building the Norse Sagas to Notre Dame. (and no, I'm not saying that it would be preferable to have a better leader popping % than the 2 content faces - I'm just saying that our Karma really stinks right now).

One positive note is that there are no Rus units visible to us.

I note that the Abbasids have captured the Byz city of Ascalon in southeastern Turkey.

IT: Danes move 10+ units from Italy next to Polish Venice. Cordova and Byzantines ally vs Sweden. I watch the Rus attack the city of Uppsala and kill one Pike, but that's it - must have been an Inquisitor. A sole Rus pike appears near Ferrouz. Sinop riots - I had moved a Sipahi out last turn and forgot to replace the MP.

1245 (10): Sipahi-smite a spy, promoting to Elite. Kill a spear in Swedish territory with a newly healed Sipahi, promoting to Elite. Sipahi-smite a 2/3 Pike, Elite style, and kill it with no leader pop. Remember how I gifted those cities to the Norwegians so we could re-capture them later? They both flipped to the Rus. I don't know whether to or

Notes:
There's one unit active, a Settler in Kafa. I was thinking we could settle it on the plains next to the Byz border in order to help with unit costs, but if you think it's a waste of a settler you can move it north to settle the Rus lands once they're gone. Actually scratch that idea - I just remembered we can't build harbours, so it'll grow really slow, and with our luck it'll probably flip to the Byz anyway.

We're at 9,255 VPs, the Byz are 18,740 and the Abbasids 14,755. We're still at 6/9 for Domination, with the Rus at 11% land and the Byz at 15% pop. That means even if we manage to take over ALL of the Rus territory we'd still be 8% short in land (or more than double our current territory). With only 70 turns left I don't think this is a goal we can achieve - but I'll be damned if we stop now!

We may want to think of merging some of our native workers to help grow cities and reduce unit costs. There's a worker next to Ghuzz specifically for this purpose, since Ghuzz is stuck at zero food for 3 turn Sipahi.

I'm building granaries in a few cities, even ones that have no river. Why? They can make settlers faster, and plus once we get hospitals online (Medicine due in 9), those granaries will help our pop grow much faster. However, feel free to veto if you think other things are more pressing.

I've sold the map and micromanaged the cities this turn. There are lots of fortified Sipahi in our cities if you want to start moving them towards Ferrouz, and then Kiev. I was expecting a Rus offensive along our northern border that thanfully never materialized.

Our empire:

Russian Rumble

Apologies for the file size of the screenies - I hadn't realized that my compression ratio was set very low.

 

[Justus II]

Got it, I will take a better look at the save in the morning, and expect to play Monday Evening (CDT/GMT-6). Thanks for prebuilding all the settlers, I hope to use them!

 

[T_McC]

If you can keep that stack of Sipahi together, it should be enough to whack the Kiev king cities. Might want to consider using the Sipahi playing defense in our north to capture a Kiev city or three on the turn you begin the assault on Kiev. Anything to save a settler.

Don't forget we can easily take all the Magyar land area, too.

 

[Caesar_Augustus]

Bear in mind that the first king city I attacked had 12 units guarding it. I'm sure Kiev - being a King city and a capital - will have 15+ in there, so make sure you bring an appropriate amount of Sipahi.

I hope the Northern Attack force will be enough to hit Novgorod. I don't think you can take it in one turn, but hopefully their Inquisitor couter-attack will be weak and you can take it in two.

 

[Justus II]

Quick status update, since the forum's been down. I am only on my 4th turn, should finish the rest tonight.

The Good:
I was able to finagle our way into the tech lead (OK, into tech mediocrity, anyway). With our 'bonus tech' of Improved Siegecraft (see below), I was able to pry first Invention, then Divine Right, Rel. Persecution, Mercantilism, and Seamanship, and Furs, from the AI. (Could have gotten Medicine instead of two of those, but our min-sci will get it in 6). We are pretty well broke, but we have some payments ending soon, so we should be alright. Also, the Inquisition is well underway, and should finish by the end of my turns in Iznik. I know this was supposed to be a palace jump city, but with no leaders yet, I think we are better off getting the FP effect sooner than later. We can always jump to Patzinak if we want later, but right now I think we will need any leaders we get for armies. We can (and are) building Inquisitors now! (And some assassins, to pick off protected Zerks). Also, we haven’t lost any cities (yet).

The Bad:

Originally posted by Caesar_Augustus
Bear in mind that the first king city I attacked had 12 units guarding it. I'm sure Kiev - being a King city and a capital - will have 15+ in there, so make sure you bring an appropriate amount of Sipahi.

I hope the Northern Attack force will be enough to hit Novgorod. I don't think you can take it in one turn, but hopefully their Inquisitor couter-attack will be weak and you can take it in two.

Um, I wouldn’t know about the defenses of the king cities yet, I am too busy fending off Bezerker/Inquistor/Spy counter-attacks. The northern force in particular is struggling to hold it’s own, after Sweden lost some forces. I have been using the Sipahi to attack the zerks then withdraw if I can, so they aren’t attacking me, but the ATAR Inquisitors are tough, they move out from the fog and take out a Sipahi. I AM about ready to move on Kiev, and will probably try to take it first, then maybe I can push some Sipahi north to link up with the northern group.

Also, even after the ‘5-fer’, we are still down FIVE techs to the Abbasids (Education, Exchequer, Medicine, Milling, Professional Armies). It’s not quite that bleak, as we will get Medicine in 6, and don’t really need the others. We are pretty middle of the pack, as 3-4 other civs are only up Education and Milling.

The Ugly:

Originally posted by T_McC
Might want to consider using the Sipahi playing defense in our north to capture a Kiev city or three on the turn you begin the assault on Kiev. Anything to save a settler.

Originally posted by Caesar_Augustus
There are lots of fortified Sipahi in our cities if you want to start moving them towards Ferrouz, and then Kiev. I was expecting a Rus offensive along our northern border that thanfully never materialized.

Good ideas, unfortunately the Rus must have used their Spies to read our plans. We have an assorted stack of Zerks, spies, Inquisitors and spears moving on Riza, just when I thought it was safe to move the Sipahi. I was able to rush some back, and my plan has been to use the Sipahi to attack the zerks before they hit me, but the Inquisitors keep jumping out of the fog and killing the Sipahi first. One problem is even in the cities, the Sipahi are chosen as the best defender. This could get dicey.

A bigger problem, long-term, is, well, we don’t have a long-term. Byzantines have completed the 7th SpaceShip part! Well, not quite, but they passed 21,000VP, averaging almost 600VP/tn. In fact, the first interturn they gained over 1100. How? Well, they are at war with everyone! At this rate, we have 15 turns left before they hit 30K.

And finally, The (B)ugly
What was that ‘bonus tech’ you ask? I can only assume this is a bug or a result of the tech flavor being set wrong, but Improved Siegecraft only cost 12g. Most everyone got it the same turn, with the notable exception of the Poles. However, they valued it from us as a full tech? Which is why we were able to (with most of our money) get Invention. I’m thinking it’s a bug, but its not really any worse than the way the other flavor techs are working, so I took the deal.

Any suggestions are more than welcome, but my plan now is to try and hold off the advancing Zerks in the east and the far north, while hitting Kiev with everything I’ve got and really, really hope for an Army. Then the victorious Sipahi can move up north to reinforce our Northern Nomads and take Novgorod, removing the Rus and letting us see just how close we can make it before the Byz launch.

 

[T_McC]

Ugh, this ain't good.

If we have the tech for Pikemen (and the money to upgrade some spears), in any city that has a Pike, leave the Sipahi on "sentry". That would ensure the Pike is the top defender.

Was I hearing correctly that the Rus have Spies? Isn't that on the Arab tree? Or are we at war with someone else?

Oh well, even if we lose it was fun.

 

[Justus II]

@T_McC:
We do have the tech for pikes, and I'm trying to scrape some money together for upgrades. Just didn't have any in Riza yet
And the Rus have Spies, which come from the Byz tree (which is their flavor), not too bad, 2.2.1 ATAR. The real problem is the Inquisitor, available to all with Religious Persecution, 4.1.1 ATAR. Anyway, I should be able to play the rest later tonight.

 

[Justus II]

OK, another short update, I am now up to 1266 (turn 7), they are taking a LONG time. (I'm also struggling, since I updated video drivers, animations are now going in slow motion, but I don't want to turn them off as there are so many enemy units running around our lands).

Good news, Kiev has fallen, so only one king left to go. Also, the Byz VP March has slowed some, still around 22K. The bad news is the Rus have SEVERAL SoDs converging on Riga, although I now have 3-4 pikes and some Sipahi, and a couple assassins, so I may be able to hold out, but it will be bloody. He has 6 zerks in position to attack next turn, and they are covered by spears and spys, so its hard for me to take them out until I get more assassins up there. Our northern force is healing again, still in Swedish territory, after taking on another 4-5 zerks. I have another 6 Sipahi on the way to reinforce them, maybe they can make some progress when they arrive, although it'll be at least 3-4 more turns as the Rus and Magyar are clogging the roads.

Hopefully I'll be able to finish this one tonight. Sorry for the delay.

 

[jack merchant]

No need to rush for me though Justus; I have a murderous turn in AG1 to get through which will likely take two days to complete.

Sounds like fun though, so good luck .

 

[Justus II]

It was the year 1245AD. Justus II, one of the former members of the Crazy Cordovans ruling junta, was on the run. Although claiming retirement, he was actually avoiding any inquiry into what REALLY happened to the 1,000 gold left in the treasury by Al-Arathorn. Although he originally thought he could quietly travel to the opposite end of the Muslim world, and fade into the background, he heard tales of confusion regarding the succession to the throne of the mighty Turks, and the lure of gaining power once again was too much for him to resist. Waiting until the previous leader, who in honor of the great Roman emperor had called himself Caesar Augustus, had left the capital, Justus II seized the throne and proclaimed himself the newest King of the Turks!

The people had many questions. Would he lead us to victory over the Rus? How will we find enough land to settle and grow our population? Why are we such a Backwards People? How are we going to pay our bills? Where is this Justus II from, and who was Justus the First? After using his natural Cordovan charm, (and some hired thugs) to set their minds at ease, Justus began to examine his new kingdom. As he wasn’t raised in the land of the Turks, he needed to familiarize himself with the map and history. In digging through the royal archives, he found a dusty old scroll written by T_McC, which would prove invaluable, as well as the reports of the recent leaders.

First to look at our standing in the scientific world. Well, we are backwards. We have a lone scientist struggling to learn the secrets of Medicine. Although our Arab ‘brothers’ all know about it, none will share the knowledge with us. We would also like to know the techniques of Religious Persecution to hold an Inquisition and destroy the infidels among us, but we don’t have nearly enough money to learn that either. In fact, we don’t really have enough money for much of anything. We are paying out over 100gpt for luxuries and alliances, although some of that will expire within the next 20 years. We are paying another 51gpt for supporting our armies. Actually, a sizeable chunk of that is paying to support all the workers and settlers (14!) who are waiting to pioneer new lands once the Rus are destroyed. We may need to use some of them to settle down closer to home and help pay for their brethren. Many workers can also move back into cities, as most of our plains are already irrigated/mined/roaded/whatever.

Looking through our cities, Justus is glad to see the advice of the old scroll has mostly been implemented, as most productive cities have Town Halls and Barracks to enable them to train decent troops. Several Pikemen builds are swapped to archers, to get some MPs out sooner, which should free up some of the Sipahi we do have to go to the front. Khazar and Edrine cease work on their Granaries, as workers can move to the towns to help them grow, and instead train more Sipahi. Ferruouz and LeBrea swap to Town Halls. Ankara is nearly finished with a Market, but with only 4gpt will not see much benefit, so it swaps to a Smith (only 4spt also, but I’ll take an extra 2spt over 2gpt). I wake a couple Sipahi in the east, and they ride west to join the assault on Kiev. I also rush the archer in Malaga, it is empty and the Danes keep marching on by, no reason to make it TOO tempting. It is now time to see what our opponents and rivals will do.

IBT: I see one side of a battle at Uppsala, where the Swedes lose a pike.
Patzinak-Sipahi>sipahi, Bursa-archer>archer, Malaga-archer>temple, Konya-Cathedral>pike, Mugla-archer>archer.

1248 (1): Our northern Sipahi continue to heal, while more move into Ferrouz in the south. I hurry the Town Hall there for 164g. After selling maps (making maybe 5g), I see our first sign of a major problem. The Byzantines are nearly at 20K! Their total of 19,890 is a gain of 1,150 in one turn! How can this be? OK, a quick check of the foreign advisor tells me they are at war with just about everyone, that doesn’t bode well for our long-term plans, because, well, we don’t have a long term anymore. There’s also not much I can do about it, as we aren’t strong enough to take them out, and would just give them more VP by trying.
IBT: Swedes land reinforcements near Uppsala. Danes raze Venice! They are still moving a ton of troops past Malaga, but now that we have an almighty archer defending, they tremble in fear and don’t dare attack (I hope).
Ghuzz-Sipahi>sipahi, Edrine Riots (worker merge AFTER checking happiness=bad thing), Ferrouz-Town Hall>Pike, Ankara-Smith>Granary (pre-build for Hospital).

1251 (2): Check the Byz first, they only increased by 330vp, to 20,220, maybe we have a little more time. Time for some fishing near Ferrouz, as the Rus have moved some troops into view. Elite Horse vs. wounded Spear wins, Elite Sipahi vs. wounded Pike (2 catapult hits) wins, losing 2, and another elite Sipahi kills a spy, losing 1hp. (Very strange watching the pistols flash, I didn’t think we had gunpowder yet )I sell the Danes Polearms for their map and 25g, and another round of map trading gets about 6g net, not really profitable anymore.
IBT: Germans and Abbasids ally vs. Cordova, then Cordova and Poland ally vs. Abbasids. Sweden withdraws some troops from around Uppsala? Byzantine and Denmark make peace, Celts and Germans ally vs. Cordova. 5 Zerks, a spy, an Inquisitor, and a couple spears move toward Riza!
LaBrea-TownHall>Sipahi, Aydis-Sipahi>sipahi, Sinope-Granary>barracks, Urfa-Sipahi>sipahi.

1254 (3): Byzantines are now at 20,745, gain of 525. Another new tech out, Improved Siegecraft. There are still some deals to be made, but I don’t think we can afford anything, although a couple countries need our horses, maybe we could swing something. That’s when I notice something very strange:

I double-check with several nations, and it’s the same, our cost is only ~13g. It’s as if it’s from a different tech flavor, yet it shows up as a standard, even required tech. Of course I buy it. After some study (actually, after making myself a chart), I can see that Poland, Cordova, and Norway (and of course the REALLY backward Celts) lack Siegecraft. What’s really strange, is Poland seems to treat it as a real tech, as with it we are now close on several techs that were doubtful or insults before. Cordova is still really stingy. We can combine Siegecraft, and Horses, and a good chunk of our money, to get Divine Right or Rel. Persecution, but I want to see if we can get the big payoff. I hire a bunch of tax collectors, and see what we can pull off. I am finally able to get Invention for Imp. Siegecraft, Horses, 490g, 29gpt, and an ROP (saves 5gpt). I know this puts our rep on the line, as our trade route goes through the Magyars, but they are allied to us for a while, and we gotta take a chance somewhere. I then approach France for Religious Persecution, and with a few more taxmen I get it for Invention+13gpt. Fatamids are next, as our allies the Swedes want exorbitant prices, and it takes some starving taxmen to come up with 21gpt to go with Invention and Religious Persecution, but I get Divine Right and Mercantilism. Our Arab brother, Cordova, wants 4 techs for Medicine, I can wait 7 more turns for that. Instead, it’s time to try and get some cash flow and put those temporary taxmen back to work. Suprisingly, the only countries with cash to spend are Denmark and the Magyars (probably because of what we are paying them!). Denmark gives us Seamanship, 8g+22gpt for Divine Right and Mercantilism, and the Magyars give us 29g+8gpt for Mercantilism. Oh yeah, I also sell Siegecraft to the Celts for 26g (that’s EARLY Siegecraft).

OK, time to re-MM the cities, so at least no one is starving. I also swap several cities to Assassins (should have done so earlier, we need to be able to pick out and kill the zerks without fighting the Pikes). Since our archer builds jumped up to Longbows, I swap them to Inquisitors (30 shields for a 4.1.1 ATAR is a steal). I look over our options, as I want to build the Inquisition ASAP. Patzinak would probably benefit the most from being corruption-free, but Iznik can build it in half the time, and time is not on our side. Also, the idea of a palace-jump to Iznik is probably also past its prime. Even in Iznik, the FP effect will benefit Patzinak some, and the OCN boost should help most of our towns. With some MM and another worker merge, I can get it down to 6 turns at Iznik by swapping now, so I do.

Up north, the Rus have sent a small SoD toward our healing army. First elite Sipahi takes out a lone zerk, a vet takes out an elite zerk (losing 2hp), and another elite loses 2 killing a spear. Now for the SoD. Vet loses 2 killing spear, vet loses 2 killing spy, vet loses 2 killing zerk, vet loses 1 killing zerk, Elite loses one killing wounded zerk, elite kills wounded zerk, vet kills last spear. I hate the defensive bombard for Zerks, 1hp from each of those first 3 units was from bombard. One Sipahi doesn’t make it back into the stack, and I see a zerk coming. In the south, near Riza, I send a couple Sipahi out to weaken him, one vet loses 2hp but promotes, killing a spy, another loses one killing a zerk, and retreat back to Riza. I also rush a trebuchet there.
IBT: Sweden kills a Rus spear. Zerk loses 1 killing our exposed elite. More zerks approach Riza, this is gonna get ugly. Inquisitor appears out of the fog and kills a fresh Sipahi at Riza! Another Inquisitor appears in the north, and redlines one of our elites, but dies. Fatamids and Germany make peace.
Khazar-Assassin>Assassin, Edrine-Sipahi>assassin, Salonika-assassin>assassin, Riza-Trebuchet>trebuchet. OK, THAT was a long turn, I’m stopping here for the night. Byz now at 21,085, gain of 340.

 

[Justus II]

1257 (4): The Assault on Kiev: It was finally time for the big attack. Would 15 Sipahi be enough? The battle starts well, as 3 of my first 4 vet Sipahi kill vet Pikes, and the 4th retreats. (Especially considering I endured defensive bombard from zerk and 2 cats). Then things break bad, as I lose the next 2, although the pikes are redlined. We finally have the zerk showing, who dies to a vet. Time for the elites to go in and finish the job. First one kills a redlined pike, second loses 5 straight hp to a redlined pike , another vet kills the now elite pike, another Sipahi kills the last redlined pike, and one more vet to kill the king! I made it with one Sipahi to spare. I keep the city, at least temporarily, it has a rax and market, and 2 cats. I don’t move anyone in it yet, except for a pike and the king-killer, so if it flips I can just retake it.

In other news, a sipahi kills a redlined Inquisitor near Riza, and my northern stack heals. I need a little more cash for an upgrade, and I can get 21g+9gpt out of England for Religious Persecution, so I take it and upgrade a pike. I also settle a couple towns on our east and west borders, helping unit support.
IBT: Near Riza, a wounded inquisitor is redlined but kills our Elite Sipahi, still the best defender until the pikes arrive. A spy attacks a regular warrior defending Sinope, who bravely redlines but stands firm and kills the spy! A sword attacks our stack in the north and dies. Many troops moving further east toward Hannover.
Ghuzz-Sipahi>sipahi, Mugla-Inquisitor>inquisitor. (Byz are now at 21265, +180).

1260 (5): First, the action at Riza. Our first assassin arrives, and picks off a regular zerk, losing 2hp (Note: stealth attacks are still vulnerable to defensive bombard). A vet Sipahi kills a spear after the Treb wounds him, and our Elite Sipahi kills another regular zerk, removing that mini-stack. Near Sinope, our elite Horse retreats against a regular spear, causing no damage.

Up north, time to fight or run. There is a stack with 5 zerks adjacent to my healing troops. I either hit him now, or run further into Swedish territory, as they will slaughter me if I stay and heal. Most of my Sipahi are only down 1hp, so I decide to attack. First vet loses 3, but kills the covering pike and promotes. My elite horse retreats against a vet spear, but inflicts 2hp. Vet dies against a vet zerk. Next vet redlines, but kills the zerk. Another vet goes yellow, but promotes, killing another zerk. A wounded Elite retreats while wounding another zerk. A wounded vet finishes off the spear, but is redlined. A wounded elite also redlines, but finishes a zerk, and our last vet kills the last zerk. Our remaining elite kills an adjacent spy, and there are now no threats in the immediate area, for the first time in a while! But I definitely need to heal:

They also deserve reinforcements for their valiant efforts, and the first four healthy Sipahi from Kiev start the trek through Magyar lands. The rest heal OUTSIDE Kiev, I also move the cats out to bomb some passing pikes.
IBT: Denmark and Abbasids ally vs. Cordova. We lose a worker near Hannover to a spy. Adding insult to injury, the regular spear attacks and kills our retreated elite horse near Sinope.
Patzinak-Sipahi>sipahi. (Byz now at 21635, +370).

1263 (6): At Riza, an elite Sipahi kills off an inquisitor, and a vet kills a spear. Big stacks are approaching, although they are going to hit Hannover (at the edge of the world) first, not even trying to save that one. A new Inquisitor kills that pesky regular spear. Well, our rep is already on the line with the deal to Poland, so I make another one, selling Poland our only Tar for 155g+3gpt, and also sell Religious Persecution to the Danes for 24g+5gpt, so I can do some upgrades. I get a decent return on Map sales this turn, and also renew the Silk deal with the Byz for 38gpt (we won’t be in any position to fight them anytime soon). I use our new cash to rush a barracks in Riza for quicker healing, and upgrade 3 pikes in nearby towns.
IBT: Magyars lose 4 medieval infantry killing a couple Rus pikes. Swedes and Rus make Peace that’s not good. Zerk kills the lone warrior, and Hannover falls. The multi-SODs move on Riza.
LaBrea-Assassin>assassin, Konya-Assasin>assassin, Riza-Rax>pike, Antioch (Abbasid) completes Robin Hood.

1266 (7): Riza is in trouble. The stack that can hit this turn has 6 zerks, 3 spies, 3 spears and an archer, with double that coming up from behind. Not a lot I can do, my one assassin in range takes out a zerk, losing 3hp but promoting. I also upgrade a spear to pike, giving me 4. Up north, a Sipahi kills a wandering Zerk, losing 1hp. Outside Kiev, I start with some cats against his approaching forces, and they go 3 for 4. Then a vet sipahi loses 1hp killing a spear, two vets kill two redlined pikes, an elite loses 2hp to kill a wounded zerk. Near Ferroux, I use a pike to kill a redlined zerk, then watch my vet sipahi die redlining a spy, and a sword finishes him. I debate whether to go for peace, but we are closing in up north, so I buy the Swedes back into alliance vs. Rus for 36gpt, I can’t afford to have them turn on me. Other than that, it’s time to brace myself at Riza.
IBT: Magyars lose a med. Infantry but kill a Rus pike. The assault on Riza: Zerk inflicts 2hp on a pike, promoting it, before dying. Second zerk inflicts 3hp on the next pike, but dies. Third zerk takes 2hp but kills Pike #3. Elite zerk steps up, and dies, but inflicts 2hp on the last pike. Next zerk kills our newly elite wounded pike, and worse yet, destroys our new Barracks. Inquisitor takes 3hp from a vet Sipahi, our best defender, before dying. Another inquisitor dies against our wounded elite sipahi. More SODs move up. At Kiev, after I defeated their stack outside of town, an Inquisitor appears out of the fog to kill our lone spear defender, and Kiev falls. Well, at least I have plenty of forces outside of town to take it back, but he is moving a lot of pikes in….
Zonguldak-Pike>pike, Ghuzz-Sipahi>sipahi, Aydin-Assassin>assassin, Salonika-Assassin>assassin, Baghdad (abbasid) completes the Magna Carta! (I guess they have Parliament too!). Byz at 22,220, +190, their pace seems to have slowed.

 

[Justus II]

1269 (8): OK, we have 2 wounded pikes, 2 assassins, 3 sipahi (2 wounded) and a warrior in Riza. They now have 22! Zerks that can hit in the next turn or two. I’m an optimist, but this is ridiculous. Sometimes, even when the glass is half full, it’s time to get a new glass! First, an assassin promotes killing a spy, and my elite Sipahi kills a wounded Inquisitor. Time to get out of Dodge, as I sell the temple, pillage some roads, and Abandon Riza (I don’t want him taking it and having a cultural window into our territory). That should slow him down a little, I gotta hope our northern force can kill the last king before he gets to more valuable cities.

At Kiev, only one cat hits, my first vet kills a vet spear, then the second promotes against a conscript pike (he can draft? Can we?), but then luck hits us hard, as an elite AND a vet sipahi are retreated by a wounded, regular pike, and I can’t take the city back. He has at least 3 pikes I can see that can be moved in next turn.
IBT: Near the ruins of Riza, he kills my two pillaging warriors, and marches south, the quiet before the storm.
Edrine-Assassin>assassin, Iznik completes the Inquisition, starts on a sipahi, at 25spt (I MM it to 22 and more commerce). Sinope-Rax>pike, Mugla-Inquisitor>Inq, Denil-Settler>settler, Urfa-Assassin-Library (prebuild for Hospital). Byz at 22,515 (+295).

1272 (9): The FP Effect really helps, net income went from +19 to +60, and Patzinak is now also over 20spt. Sheriff’s office would be nice, but I can’t afford to take them out of unit production right now. In the east, I just try to pick off some stray units ahead of the SODs, a vet sipahi kills a spy, an elite loses 2hp to kill an inquisitor. Near Kiev, I know I can’t take the city back, and my sipahi all need to heal, so I kill an inquisitor on my way into Magyar lands. Sword kills a spear near Ferrouz. Some of our reinforcements are getting bogged down in traffic in Swedish lands, but 3 make it through, so I move into position to attack Novgorod. I sell the Danes Invention for WM, 26g, +14gpt, and map trades make another 15g, some turns it still pays off.
IBT: Up north, the Rus bring Inquistitor counters, and the first loses 2 while retreating an elite Sipahi, then another loses 2 to kill it. An elite inquisitor kills another elite sipahi down south.

1275 (10): Medicine is discovered. Byz are now at 22,905 (+390). The Assault on Novgorod: First our horse clears the wounded Inquisitor out of the way. I have 10 Sipahi, I don’t know if it will be enough. First vet loses one, killing a vet pike. Second loses 3, but kills a vet pike. Good start, but he had 2 zerks for defensive bombardment. Third retreats, inflicting 1hp. Fourth retreats, inflicting 2. Fifth loses 2, but kills a vet (unfortified), and a regular is showing. Sixth dies after redlining the regular. The city’s not going to fall this turn, but maybe I can at least get to kill the wounded and zerks. Seventh is an elite (-1), who dies redlining another regular. Eighth elite loses 2hp, but kills the –1 vet from earlier. #9, another –1 elite, faces a conscript, and retreats without causing any damage. My lasat elite redlines killing an inquisitor, to avoid the counter. This mission has failed, I move the stack back another tile toward Swedish territory. He has at least a conscript pike, 2 wounded regulars, a vet, and 2 zerks remaining.

In the south, kill ratios are in my favor with the Assassins. First vet kills a regular zerk but loses 2hp (did I mention I hate the zerk’s defensive bombard!!!). Second kills a vet zerk and promotes. Third assassin loses an hp and promotes, killing another zerk. Fourth, an elite, loses 2hp but kills an inquisitor, and a sipahi comes in to finish off the remaining spy. I take one shot with a wounded elite, killing a vet inquisitor, but no luck. Two more vet sipahi take out an Inquisitor and a spear, and get back into town. Near Ferrouz, a horse kills a spy, promoting to vet.

This is just plain ugly. We are facing at least 20 zerks, with plenty of covering forces. (See Map). We have 5-6 assassins in the area now, and 5 sipahi, and a few pikes still healing, but we are going to have to defend a gradually broadening front, he’s not focused on a single city like Riza. We should probably rush a trebuchet or two, there is one up there now, but I will leave our meager cash (79g) for the next leader. I have not done much MM’ing this turn, except to swap pre-builds over to hospitals in the cities I thought needed them. Definitely do MM, as with the FP, some cities can put some taxmen to work and be more productive. Also I haven’t done the map trading, I’ll let the next leader re-acquaint himself with our friends.

Here is our Northern Strike Force (or what’s left of it).

There are three more Sipahi fighting traffic in Swedish lands, maybe they could link up while this force heals and try again. There are also 4 sipahi in Magyar lands west of Kiev, they could heal and move north in 4-5 turns. I just don’t know if we can hold back the Zerk wave for 4-5 turns, but I don’t know what other choices we have. We could make peace, in fact they were offering a couple throw-away cities last turn, but that would break our alliances, and buy us 20 turns, while we watch the Byzantines win. They have gained a total of 4,165 over my reign, and only need 7,000 more, so we probably don’t have 20 turns left. I think Domination is out of the question, but killing the Rus would be a big VP boost, and at least some sort of moral victory. Don’t know what else to say, this has been probably the most intense (and LONGEST) SG turns I’ve taken, very challenging situation. I still can’t believe we have yet to score a SINGLE leader, one or two Sipahi armies and Novgorod would have already fallen. Anyway, good luck to our next brave leader (Jack Merchant, I presume )! I doubt I will get another turn, but this one was enough to last a while! At least we are living up to our name!

Be Tenacious!

 

[Caesar_Augustus]

Wow, I'm speechless. This mess is my fault - I should have said screw the northern front and pealed off those 10-12 Sipahi for the Northern Strike Force. Then all newly built Sipahi could've taken out Kiev. We might have lost a city, but we would have had more turns to settle former Rus. I should've gone 100% offense; instead I chose 60% offense and 40% defence.

Bear in mind that their production will be a lot higher now that their palace has jumped from Kiev, so things are going to get even worse during the next few turns .

I personally wouldn't make Peace. What's the point? There aren't very many turns left, especially with the Byz killing units left and right. Forget Domination, VPs, Byzantines, etc . . . We NEED to KILL the RUS :die:. It';s really all we have left to play for.

 

[Justus II]

Caesar,
Don't blame yourself, I wouldn't have guessed they had that many Zerks running around. Also the 2-3 zerks in each city for defensive bombard hurts. I think we may also have triggered their GA, which is part of the problem. If we had it to do over again, maybe we should have positioned the strike force up north (and a bigger one at that) first, then declared, but hindsight is 20/20.

I agree, peace is pretty pointless at this point, we need to at least go down fighting!