RBO OSG7: Always War Hard

Zed-F

Emperor
Joined
Dec 25, 2001
Messages
1,776
Welcome to Always War, MOO-style!

As some may know, it's not really possible in MOO to do an Always War game as Civ SG veterans would understand it. That's because there's no way to actually declare war on the AI races in MOO! You have to piss them off to the point where they will declare on you. Well, without being too artificial about it, that's what we aim to do here.

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Always War Hard

Race: Mrrshan
Difficulty: Hard
Size: Medium
Opponents: 5
Colour: Red
Minimum Victory: Extermination!

Variant Rules
Spirit of the Rules: Always act as if we are at war with all races, even if they have not formally declared war.
* May never form any long-term treaty or trade agreement, including peace treaty
* May never offer tribute
* Must always have at least one tick of spying per race contacted; spies may not hide.
* Must always vote for ourselves in council, but may not accept a council win (or loss.) If we can't vote for ourselves, we abstain.

NOTE: We do not have to squander our strength needlessly or perform foolish suicide attacks to convince the AIs to declare war on us. If they choose to appease us despite being on The List, so much the worse for them when the hammer falls.
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Lineup:

Zed-F << 30 turns
Maniac < 20 turns
catwalk < 10 turns thereafter
dathon
vxma

I generated a few starts, trying to ensure we'd have at least a couple races we naturally dislike, and picked a couple for our consideration, an 'easier' start and a 'harder' start. Here's the easy start:

osg7_2300ad_map2.JPG


Note the broad gap between our corner of the galaxy and the rest of the galaxy to the south. We have a fair amount of space to expand into back here so this is a relatively good thing. We can expect to have an enemy with a similar amount of space to expand into starting at the yellow star directly south of us, and he's likely to be our most dangerous opponent if he expands at a reasonable pace. Our closest potential neighbor is the yellow star in the nebula west-northwest of us. (I know it looks orange in the shot, but trust me it's yellow.) Most of our opponents are probably in a tight cluster in the SW corner of the galaxy, competing for space. Our game plan is probably to settle as much of our own back yard as possible and start cleansing our way counter-clockwise around the galaxy.

Here's the harder start:

osg7_2300ad_map1.JPG


This time the gap isn't protecting our territory from an early attack so much as it's boxing us into the corner. If we can't make a pathway out along the bottom of the map, we could be stuck back here for a considerable amount of time... and blue stars are not exactly the odds-on favourite for generating a viable path out. Again we can expect a strong neighbor with a good amount of space to expand into, this time to our north, with the other races lined up along the west side of the galaxy. Not sure how strongly they will be competing for space, but 4 out of the 6 yellow stars over there will start out occupied, so it could be cramped -- or one of the AIs could get out to a good jump of a start and start raking in the territory. Any way you slice it, odds are good that we'll be having to claw our way out of a significant hole by the time we make contact with the other races. Still, as always, it all depends on the dice rolls. One other thing, take a look at the races opposing us, and then this chart:

osg7_2300ad_races.JPG


Every single race opposed to us on this map is at most Uneasy with us to start, with one exception, and that's the Humans! If they get out to a good start, we could easily be looking at early final war here.

So, folks, what's it to be?
 
At the risk of sounding like a wuss, I prefer the easier start. Getting into final war with the mrrshans in 2345 doesn't sound like what I'm looking for in the first crack at this idea.

- Maniac
 
Well, it probably wouldn't be 2345. ;) Might be somewhere around 2400 though...

Vote noted. :)
 
That first start may not be so easy if the Psilons are the race in that lower portion :eek: Silicoids down there would be trouble too, as they'll probably grab half the galaxy. I think I'd vote for the first one and see what happens. And f we trounce the map, we already have a backup start in place :thumbsup:

dathon
 
dathon has a point. The first one isn't automatically a great start. What if that red planet to the west is Toxic? We coul;d be more boxed in than anyone thinks. That being said, I still vote for that map.
 
We have 2 votes for the first start, and one for the second, with one abstention. So, sounds like we are going with the first start. :)

2300: I start by sending my initial scouts south, to see what I can see across the gap, and intend to build scouts to examine the planets to our west.

2302: Colonize Anraq, a size 60 UP planet, to the NW. It'll open up the way west for further colonization ships and can at least do some early research for us. Send 14 pop to Anraq.

2306: Encounter Silicoid scouts to our west. Encounter Alkari scouts south, across the gap. We've started research at Anraq into propulsion (Range 4) and Planetology (Terraforming +10), with an option for Improved Eco as well.

2311: Discover Willow, a Tundra world to our west, is infested with Silicoids. We have also scouted several planets in that direction (though the Silicoids have scouted many as well, no doubt.) I'd like to settle a few planets in the area before the Silicoids can.

2313: We've finally gotten around to scouting most of the planets in our backyard, including an artifacts planet, from which we get Terraforming +20.

2320: Terraforming +10 comes in. Start on Improved Eco, because it's cheap and will help our economy. We have lots of options to choose from in this field, though, including Controlled Toxic and Enhanced Eco.

In other news, Alkari settle size 10 Antares to our south, driving off our scout.

2322: Fierias hits 171 factories, which is enough for its current 84 pop, and switches to colony ship construction. Anraq finishes terraforming, is now at 51/80 pop, and goes back to full time research.

2325: Colony ship completes at Fierias, a year ahead of schedule. (They are fast since we have level 8 planetology tech.)

2327: Hydrogen Fuel Cells comes in. I can pick Nuclear Engines, Irridium Fuel Cells, or Inertial Stabilizer next, and opt for Nuclear Engines since it's cheap and we don't need any more range to hopscotch around our own backyard or to fight the Silicoids to the west. We can always grab a range tech later if need be. I swap our Propulsion research to Construction and start working on IIT 9.

2330: Colonize Tau Cygni, a Terran 90 on the Silicoid border. Gain contact and start espionage at 1 click. Send 33 colonists from Anraq to Tau Cygni. Send another colony ship toward Terran 110 Collassa on the Silicoid border. Silicoids have 4 planets, send 2 scouts toward Crypto and Denubius (the others being Cryslon and already-scouted Willow.

osg7_2330ad_easymap1.JPG


Looking forward: We would like to scout Silicoid space as much as possible before they stand up defenses as this will make it easier to invade later. There are 2 more planets on the Silicoid border we would like to grab: Steppe 60 Reticuli to the south of Tau Cygni and Ocean 90 Poor Hyboria to the north of Collassa. However, another plan would be to leave one or both for the Silicoids and concentrate on filling in our core first, then build up a navy and take the planets from them. My thought is leaving Hyboria and colonizing Reticuli might be a good compromise; personally that's what I would go with. Besides, colonizing Reticuli will let us scout further.

We have a few scouts around Collassa that can explore Silicoid space, but some are just arriving and will need to be given new destinations. Once Collassa is colonized there will be another planet or 2 we can reach. We need to build more scouts to scout across the gap, which I neglected to do in favour of colony ships. I expect we should be able to scout some Alkari colonies down there. If they have ships guarding their planets, we can just bounce scouts off them until we get a window where the ships have moved away for a turn or two.

Currently, Fierias is building the next colony ship, but a bit more slowly as it is also slowly terraforming and building some more factories. Anraq is still on full research and is mostly set to act as a pop source for our new colonies. We won't be ready to start attacking anytime soon; we need:
- pop for troops
- at least a little tech for better ships and landings at Silicoid hostile worlds
- a navy, probably larges; currently only Fierias can build ships.

osg7_2330ad_easymap2.JPG


And here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/osg7_2330ad_easy_SAVE4.zip
 
Yum I love terrans and 110 is my favorite size. I like the idea of grabbing that size 60 as well. We will be spread sort of thin if we try to add that UP.

I don't have a problem with UP planets, but they need a lot of support at first and We probably will not have enough to built it and defend all we will have at the same time for awhile.
 
I recommend not building a single factory on P/UP unless:
1) We do not wish to conduct any significant amount of research
2) We have no normal planets to build factories on
 
Good point and I concur, but I don't think we will be grabbing that UP right away, so you will probably have to remind us later.
 
You mean UP Anraq right next to our homeworld? Or do you mean Poor Hyboria up by Collassa?

We needed to colonize Anraq to gain access to planets further west, so that was where the initial colony ship went. If I had waited for mor scout reports rather than settle immediately, I might have sent it to another size 90 near our homeworld, but that would have made staking claims in the west harder. (We couldn't have scouted Terran 110 Collassa or colonized Tau Cygni without having colonized Anraq.) Since it's going to be a pop source for new colonies for a long time, and a bit of early research from it doesn't hurt, I don't think it was a bad choice. Regardless, no factories have been built there.

As far as colonizing Hyboria goes, I'd put that lower in priority than colonizing our core. Depending on what the Silicoids do and when we feel ready to attack, it might be lower priority than building a war fleet. If we do colonize it, then no factories there sounds like a good plan to me, at least for a while; we can use it as a troop source and since it's vulnerable anyway we lose less if it does get bombed.
 
Is it ever a good idea to be building factories as well as colony ships on the same planet? Either one is going to be the better choice, and then you'd be better off focusing all resources there. Also, compare spending ten turns with 50% on each with 5 turns of factories and 5 turns of colony ships. The first version gives you more factories and a faster colony ship.
 
Well maybe. It would depend upon the urgency to get the colony out. If it was to a safe planet (no one can reach it) and you also were researching a new engine and further were doing only as many factories as growth required, the rest could go to a ship.

Probably not a common situation, but there maybe other considerations.
 
Wow, lots of poor planets. Well, catwalk wanted a difficult start and it looks like we got one! :lol:

I had hoped the Alkari wouldn't be near us so our early ships would have combad advantages, but so it goes.

I just got home from work and see that I am up. However, I am also up (first) in RBC5, so it may not be tonite when I get to this. I'll have it done by tuesday morning for sure.

- Maniac
 
Only 2 poor planets, and lots of nice ones. Two Terran 90s, a Terran 110, an artifact world, and more, with only 1 opponent that can reach us, doesn't qualify as a difficult start in my book! ;)

Besides, we aren't likely to take on the Alkari as our first opponent. (They might come after us eventually, but that's what bases are for. Alkari like popguns which are useless against 'em.) We will have a combat advantage against our first target, the Silicoids.

Regarding building facs and colony ships at the same time -- we can only build facs so fast as we are near our optimum number and are waiting on pop growth. So we trickle-build facs while we pop out more colony ships at a reasonable clip. Besides, once you get down to the 4-5 turns per ship range, you get diminishing returns on how much cash you need to pump versus how fast the ships get built. Using the extra for fac construction makes good sense, IMHO.
 
Well, now that I've seen the save I agree. It looks a lot beter than it sounded.

The thing Zed is doing with the factories is :evilllllllllll: micromanagment.

The only thing I'm having trouble finding are spare scouts in the south for those 4 planets 7 parsects out..... Anyway, since skyfish posted the wrong save, I'll probably play tonite.
 
2 of the scouts are leaving Collassa this turn, 2 more are arriving in the next couple turns. They'll cover off the west. As I mentioned in my report, you'll need to build more to cover the south.
 
I played my turns, but I'm tired, so I'll post the report tomorrow night when I get home from work.

Summary: We live lots of new places and haven't started shooting yet. Maybe we should call this eventually allways war?! :lol:
 
Heh, well if we can't P.O. the Silicoids fast enough to get them to declare... then, yeah. ;)
 
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