RBTS9 - Final Frontier

[Olodune]

I found minimum defense - 1 PDS per system - fine once we have a bomber squadron or two. Like standard air units, they can rebase anywhere within a single turn, and one airstrike renders a pirate invasion ship unable to beat a PDS.

Since this is a SG we can get away with heavy micro too -- make sure that each turn we fly reconnaissance missions once we have a few bombers/fighters. That way the chance of being surprised by space pirates should be minimized.

Edit: And why the heck did someone think it was a good idea to rename Bureaucracy to "Monarchy"? A Bureaucratic government makes as much sense in an FF galaxy as is does in Civ4, without the confusion.

 

[sooooo]

I see it and I will have a look at it today. Whether I acutally play or not will depend on if I'm confident that I know what to do

 

[sooooo]

OK, I think the plan for my turnset is:

Build research while growing to size 3, then switch two population to high-commerce 1/2/7 planet.

I decided to play until Light Craft Manufacturing was in.

The system that T-Hawk was one square away from unveiling was this one, labelled Capricorn Hephaestus:



Survial and Wealth were both founded on turn 20.



And the star system that you can see in the above screenshot, Aries Apollo:



At size 3 I switched over two population to the high commerce planet Pisces Zeta:



Building research no longer sped up the tech at this point so I started another PDS.

The overview of the scouting on the turn after the LCM tech was discovered:



The north seems to be blocked by a nebula. There is a star system to the southeast, just past the resource-rich asteroid field, that I missed on my first run through because the orbit lines are only visible when a planet passes through the tile or shortly after. I have a PDS heading that way to investigate. I would have liked to scout more directly southwest of Paradise in hindsight.

I put the population back onto the growth planets but I'm sure the team will be able to confirm whether that is correct or not. I had no idea which tech to select so for the moment I selected the first on the list.

 

[Olodune]

Gold! Nice. I think we found the likely location of our first starbase. Not only will it be able to get the needed happy from the Gold, but Oil (+20% production on fighters/bombers) and Hydrogen (+20% prod on PDSs and destroyers).

Well, for the next turnset:

-Revolt to Monarchy

-Switch production immediately to a mining facility on Gamma Aten. At 90 Hammers this will take 10 turns to build after the civics switch -- two annoying turns longer than it will take to grow to our happy cap, but is the best vertical growth option we have. The close PDS would have to be recalled for MP duty.

-I'm still undecided on the tech path. We'll need workers soonish (Planetary Construction + Orbital Engineering). Heading for either Knowledge or Power will likely require some hard beelines slowing down our growth curve. Hmmm.

 

[Olodune]

Building units has some merits too. Building a Squadron Factory + Bomber while growing, or just spamming some cheap PDSs, are also good options. Having a bigger military presence would ensure that our Colony Ships don't get delayed for lack of tile visibility.

 

[T-hawk]

I definitely agree with the mining facility. It's +3 hammers once we've grown to size 4, multiplied to 4.5 by Monarchy, so it pays for itself in only 20 turns. A colony ship isn't quite so fast - 120 units invested, nets 5 hard (non-commerce) units (2-2-1 plus nutrient and mining facilities minus 1 food consumed), for a 24 turn payback period.

I don't know about tech path though - suggestions?

Cyneheard / Mojo <--- UP NOW
timmey827 <--- On Deck

 

[Mojoqmeyvam]

THE KING IS ALIVE! LONG LIVE THE KING! Well, next turn, anyways.

I'll get to it tomorrow evening. Mining facility on Gamma Aten, sounds good. Colony ship after that?

I'm leaning towards getting Orbital Construction, looking to build Mining Facility --> Colony Ship --> Construction Ship, with military thrown in as needed/desired.
Orbital Construction -> Galactic Epistemology is tempting. It's slower than a direct beeline for the religion through Survivalism, but if whoever got Wealth went straight for GE, then we'd lose no matter what. And being able to trade techs and build Universities are useful options.
Relative to OC --> Orbital Engineering: We'd be somewhat slower in getting our first SB up, but a Starbase isn't much good until we have 2-3 Construction Ships total (one gets consumed), to build the warp lanes and extractors that we'd need, so I don't think it would be much slower in getting gold + coal + Hydrogen (Health).
Military techs aren't a high priority IMO, PDS and bombers can last us for a bit, and Delta PDS are researchable right after Galactic Epistemology, if we want. The military line is for the AIs that we haven't met yet.

 

[T-hawk]

I looked at the tech tree some more. I agree with Planetary Construction (assuming that's what you meant by Orbital Construction) to Galactic Epistemology. Starbases and warp lanes are at Orbital Engineering, but first we need to build construction ships themselves at PC. Also PC allows Pacifism which I think is worthwhile (+15% hammers in all cities, +1 cost per military unit as in standard civ.)

 

[timmy827]

In general agreement with Mining Facility, tech path, and growing to 4 (with recalling a PDS as Olodune mentioned), sorry not much to add at this point.

 

[Olodune]

In general agreement with Mining Facility, tech path, and growing to 4 (with recalling a PDS as Olodune mentioned), sorry not much to add at this point.

This is easy consensus building so far

An interesting aspect about being Paradise is that we have the option for a very early Starbase (since we already have 100 credits in the bank). This will be a question to deal with further down the road, but having a bigger happy cap soon would further our vertical growth theme. I think after building as few as 2-3 colony ships we should consider it.

 

[sooooo]

-Switch production immediately to a mining facility on Gamma Aten. At 90 Hammers this will take 10 turns to build after the civics switch -- two annoying turns longer than it will take to grow to our happy cap, but is the best vertical growth option we have. The close PDS would have to be recalled for MP duty.

The PDS at paradise only has 1 turn to complete - it would probably be wiser to let that finish rather than recall the closest PDS we have out.

 

[Olodune]

The PDS at paradise only has 1 turn to complete - it would probably be wiser to let that finish rather than recall the closest PDS we have out.

Not a critical decision, but switching now will give us 4-net hammers, possibly less one from decay on the PDS. I was assuming that the PDS being built would be the escort/garrison for Horus Taurus, in which case delaying until after the mining facility costs us nothing.

That said, exploration is good too

 

[Mojoqmeyvam]

Oops. First Succession Turnset, and I make a move. I didn't swap the tech, so I just finished Orbital Engineering. My earlier confusion about calling "Planetary Construction" "Orbital" clearly messed me up. Since our team was clearly in agreement on what tech to do (as was I), what do we do?

Options:
Play on.
I could replay, making the same scouting moves, with the correct tech choice.
Have someone else play, making the moves we intended to. REVOLT to Monarchy first turn, and pick up Planetary Construction. I guess I'd swap with someone?
Note: (and I calculated this during the inherited turn), we can finish the PDS in the queue (it's 1H short) without losing a turn on the Mining Facility (we lose 1H due to rounding, instead of possibly 1H due to decay, but gain some scouting).

 

[Olodune]

Oops. First Succession Turnset, and I make a move. I didn't swap the tech, so I just finished Orbital Engineering. My earlier confusion about calling "Planetary Construction" "Orbital" clearly messed me up. Since our team was clearly in agreement on what tech to do (as was I), what do we do?

After some lighthearted fun, I vote for playing on. I think any shot at founding Knowledge is out though. Before you post screens lets let T-Hawk (our fearless leader, himself) weigh in.

 

[T-hawk]

If we didn't do anything like make contacts or pick up important spoiler info, I'm okay for you to just replay with the intended moves. Especially if you also forgot to revolt to Monarchy - you didn't clearly say on that. There's a passage in the Realms Beyond rules to the effect of we're running a strategy game, not a memory or attention test, and short-term reloads are okay.

 

[Mojoqmeyvam]

I did revolt to Monarchy. Ok, will replay the turns.

The closest thing to spoiler info was "looking at the Demo screen".

 

[Olodune]

The closest thing to spoiler info was "looking at the Demo screen".

The Demo screen seemed to be broken for me -- is that an artifact of loading someone's save that I forgot about? Or is the FF Demo screen a little wacky?

Edit: And I owe an apology to sooooo, because of the pop growth finishing the PDS before the mining facility is clearly the better option.

 

[Mojoqmeyvam]

I've played the turns (up to T40. Planetary Construction came in). We should decide where we want to settle, and whether or not we want to spend the next 17 turns going for Galactic Epistemology, or go for something else.

My First Succession Game Turnset.
After a weedy first go (see above), here it goes.

T27 (IHT): I revolt to Monarchy. We are 1H short of the PDS. Since we won’t lose a turn on the Mining Facility by finishing the PDS, I will do so next turn (good thing we grow in 8, not the full 10). I SWITCH TECHS TO PLANETARY CONSTRUCTION. Too much last time.

Some interesting/bizarre information:
Demographics Screen, T28: everyone else is still size 1. I don’t know how that’s possible, since not all of them could have built Colony Ships at the start, unless something else is up. And how could New Earth be down to 1 pop?? At least one of them has no pop working, since their crop yield is 0, and so is MFG. The lowest GNP was 10, which could have only been Halis (1 culture/turn, instead of 2, 8 commerce from palace, 1 base beaker).
And we have 9 teams total, not 8. So there’s a duplicate of someone out there.


T31: After finding water in range of our projected first starbase, I find that almost-hiding system (thanks for the sign). Horus Leo, it has some potential.


T38: Mining Facility Complete. Start a colony ship, due at the end of T44. We should decide where we want to send him.

T40: Planetary Construction comes in. I set research to Galactic Epistemology. Nice, round number, and a good stopping point. I find a new system way off to the NW. It’s an interesting one. If it wasn't so far out there (maybe the PDS should head SW and swing back? Or keep on pressing onward, looking for contacts?)


A second resource cluster, near home, but is a lower priority IMO, since we want the health/happy first (that's Water (health) and Iron (Cruisers and Invasion Ships) in the N, Titanium (Carriers and Battleships) and Oil (Fighters and Bombers) in the south).


Pacifism: We can switch to it. Right now, it takes us from 16hpt to 18hpt, and we have 4 PDS. I'm not sure that's a good deal.

More Demographics:
I believe the AIs have founded 4 new worlds. We still have an AI who is working the minimum 11 GNP, 0 MFG, 0 crop yield.

145k total AI pop: 1 @ size 4, 3 @ size 3, 5 @ size 2, 3 @ size 1, for 48 + 63 + 30 + 3 = 145k pop. So with our 2nd world due in the mid-to-late 40s, we're doing just fine on settling. Since we're #1 in GNP, I think we should make a run at Galactic Epistemology, we'll hopefully get it.

 

[T-hawk]

Some interesting/bizarre information:
Demographics Screen, T28: everyone else is still size 1. I don&#8217;t know how that&#8217;s possible, since not all of them could have built Colony Ships at the start, unless something else is up. And how could New Earth be down to 1 pop?? At least one of them has no pop working, since their crop yield is 0, and so is MFG. The lowest GNP was 10, which could have only been Halis (1 culture/turn, instead of 2, 8 commerce from palace, 1 base beaker).

All these numbers can only be explained by the AI leaving population unassigned and not working. New Earth could reach 1 pop only by starvation (whipping comes late.) And Halis can only have GNP as low as 10 if no population is working (every planet produces at least 1 commerce.) Or else the demo screen is broken and not reporting accurate numbers.

And oops, I think I did leave the default of 9 civs total when starting the game. You aren't the only smoker around here

T40 was the expected stopping point on the original 15-15-10 schedule. Ten turns from here on out, please. Minor flexibility is OK if you need 1 or maybe 2 turns for something really important.

Horus Leo (SE beyond the rich asteroid field) is complete junk: 2-2-1 size 1 and 0-3-3 size 2. Three pop total until 500 culture? That far NW system is interesting, size 2 Earthlike planet and 0-3-3 (gray) size 3. Fast start but not much beyond that. We're seeing a real dearth of systems of any solid population capacity.

Pacifism: There is a small margin of free units, like Pacifism in standard civ. It's probably worth it. Let's let Timmy make the call. Gal Epistemology sounds good to me too.

 

[Olodune]

Looks good.

The Hydrogen is not a health resource. Still a Starbase by the gold can pick up the gold + oil + hydrogen + water -- two strategic resources and a total of +3 health and happy. This will be great, and offsets the slightly disappointing surrounding systems (they seem a little poor to me).

My only criticism is that you don't have a PDS in place to escort our first Colony Ship I thought that was the role of PDS #4? I don't know when space pirates show up but sending the colony ship into the fog of war makes me nervous. What was your plan here?

I'm ok with researching Galactic Epistemology next. Doing so will slow down the warp lane building process however, so it comes with a significant opportunity cost. Interestingly, going for maximum beakers (working "gems" + building research) we can go from 25->55 beakers per turn, something we may want to do briefly after building 2(?) colony ships. Actually, I would be in favor of hitting maximum beakers after the current Colony ship to give us the best chance at founding Knowledge.

Edit: Cross post with T-Hawk