Real allies

[trada]

It's a well known fact that the alliances in civ1 are.. well, fragile The AI *always* backstabs (if you don't first). In fact, they aren't anything more then temporary ceasefires. But have you ever had an ally stick up for you? For example, in one game the Zulus were totally dominating and the Indians and I were the only surviving tribes that weren't wiped out by them. I was still in the stone age and running away from the Zulus while the Indians were being teacher's pet. For some reason the Zulus and the Indians fell out and the Indians made allies with me. As the Zulus advanced their ARMORs on my last refuge Indian bombers appeared out of nowhere and set fire to the ARMORs. I was pretty stoked as the game ended a few years later and we all tie-winned.

What about you? Ever had a real ally? Ever been one?

 

[GoldBerg]

It's a well known fact that the alliances in civ1 are.. well, fragile The AI *always* backstabs (if you don't first). In fact, they aren't anything more then temporary ceasefires. But have you ever had an ally stick up for you? ... ...

that's one of the things i really did wish within the game:
better diplomatics.
i always thought that a version 2 would bring us that - well, we did see it went worse.

my idea was a REAL diplomatic interface for civilization
that would work like:

the moment MONARCHY is invented and established
'your' diplomats/spies/politicians are able:
to move to city or unit of the tribe you want to talk to

and

- bribe
- fight
AND
- DiPLOMACY

are possible.

like

talk to tribes goverment --->

and so on


one important thing could base for example on the 'character' of the different tribes:
it should (for example) be possible if YOU did never attack (even) Zulus or Mongols FiRST
always to get a peace contract with diplomatic talks and some money (more money and less dependable after you did attack them yourself, of course)

and
all-time peace with tribes like f.e. french or babylonians if you did never attack them and did trade some techs from time to time...

(just to show the way-to-go)

...

that type of civ-game would be really interesting to me:
if you could 'grow' dependable allies
to fight your enemies.

imagine civ.1 at King level with you (maybe as 'english') and french 'AI' and babylonian 'AI' as allies
against mongols and russians (for example) in a '1900+ AD' game
with real big armies.

wouldn't it be nice?

 

[GoldBerg]

It's a well known fact that the alliances in civ1 are.. well, fragile The AI *always* backstabs (if you don't first). In fact, they aren't anything more then temporary ceasefires. But have you ever had an ally stick up for you? ... ...

that's one of the things i really did wish within the game:
better diplomatics.
i always thought that a version 2 would bring us that - well, we did see it went worse.

my idea was a REAL virtual diplomatic interaction for civilization
(at minima something like 'lisa' -those days- )
that would work like:

the moment MONARCHY is invented and established
'your' diplomats/spies/politicians are able:
to move to city or unit of the tribe you want to talk to

and

- bribe
- fight
AND
- DiPLOMACY

are possible.

like

talk to tribes goverment --->

and so on


one important thing could base for example on the 'character' of the different tribes,
another (of course) on the 'goverment' at that time:
it should (for example) be possible if YOU did never attack (even) Zulus or Mongols FiRST
always to get a peace contract with diplomatic talks and some money (more money and less dependable after you did attack them yourself, or their type of goverment is anarchy or despotism -
democracy should be the most dependable, of course)

all-time peace with tribes like f.e. french or babylonians if you did never attack them and did trade some techs from time to time ... should be a possible thing
(just to show the way-to-go)

...

that type of civ-game would be really interesting to me:
if you could 'grow' dependable allies
to fight your enemies.

imagine civ.1 at King level with you (maybe as 'english') and french 'AI' and babylonian 'AI' as allies
against mongols and russians (for example) in a '1900+ AD' game
with real big armies.

wouldn't it be nice?

 

[Dack]

that type of civ-game would be really interesting to me:
if you could 'grow' dependable allies
to fight your enemies.

imagine civ.1 at King level with you (maybe as 'english') and french 'AI' and babylonian 'AI' as allies
against mongols and russians (for example) in a '1900+ AD' game
with real big armies.

The original game must have had some sort of idea along those lines. In KING.TXT there are two interesting messages that you never see in game play.

*HELPME --- Our civilization is threatened by the evil $THEM.
Will you help us to repel their unprovoked agression?
We will send you $BUCKS$ to cover your expenses.
_No, sorry, tough luck.
_Yes, cancel treaty with $THEM.

and​

*CRUSADE -- We invite you to join our crusade
to rid the world of the evil $THEM.
We will $RPLC1 peace treaty for the duration of the hostilities.
_No, not interested.
_Yes, cancel treaty with $THEM.

Also in the CIV.EXE file there is this interesting string of characters

INTELLIGENCE REPORT No embassy established... ALLIED ... PEACE ... WAR

As if there was some plans for alliances with others.
Perhaps the programers ran over budget and these ideas were scrapped.

.​

 

[GoldBerg]

...
*HELPME --- Our civilization is threatened by the evil $THEM.
Will you help us to repel their unprovoked agression?
We will send you $BUCKS$ to cover your expenses.
_No, sorry, tough luck.
_Yes, cancel treaty with $THEM.

and​

*CRUSADE -- We invite you to join our crusade
to rid the world of the evil $THEM.
We will $RPLC1 peace treaty for the duration of the hostilities.
_No, not interested.
_Yes, cancel treaty with $THEM.
... ...

i remember those messages in the game (maybe in version 474.03 or amiga version - but it did happen just far later in the game (as far as i remember) and i can't remember which civ/tribe did ask for it and how the relationship did start.
i presume i always DiD confirm friendship and DiD science trading with those AI 'folks'
but as far as i remember i saw
the same tribe attacking 'me'
later in the game without 'doing 'em any harm' (before).

so it's 'just a case in time'
and it would be useful to know the more exact 'parameters' for these actions
(but maybe the game is here as well a picture
of what happens in reality )

 

[Irish Caesar]

I've seen those messages also, and usually nothing comes of them...that is, peace is made quickly and backstabbing is done.

To answer the question, I've never seen or been a "true" ally.

 

[Noli]

When the enemy offers a peace treaty I used to sign the treaty all the time but now I just ignore peace offerings.

 

[nock371]

I usually never even bother to talk to them...

Its fun when two AI civs go hard out at each other...

 

[trada]

One thing I'll give the AI of civ1 is that they aren't afraid to beat each other up.