Realism Invictus
- Thread starter Walter Hawkwood
- Start date
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Hi All,
Update your SVN to revision 4895: the Mayas are now playable !
This civ isn't fully finished as we still have to add two or more leaders as well as a few flavor units and buildings. Meanwhile it's fully playable.
Enjoy.
Update your SVN to revision 4895: the Mayas are now playable !
This civ isn't fully finished as we still have to add two or more leaders as well as a few flavor units and buildings. Meanwhile it's fully playable.
Enjoy.
I'm currently entering the medieval era with Maya on immortal. Wow - very powerful aggressive civilization. Might need a couple small nerfs to the early UUs. I'm not near jungle so I haven't had a chance to use the UI.
the science wonder change is excellent - there are more choices now about whether to settle the GS or build a wonder.
the science wonder change is excellent - there are more choices now about whether to settle the GS or build a wonder.
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Good sum-up: Maya civ is very powerful in attack and is interesting to play if you're an aggressive player.
NU may need to be reworked. I wait for more feedbacks before updating them.
Did you test the Hornet Throwers ?
Good day,
oh yeah I tested the hell out of the hornet throwers. I have four hornet throwers with GGs pushing 200-600 xp. They're kinda good. You can just take out cities with them. Well, by now they've been upgraded to light infantry but yeah... the Maya skirmishers in general are bonkers because of woodsman III. Basically the key to winning with Maya is to rush to Hornet Throwers, put GGs on them, and have them engage in combat for as many turns as humanly possible
also Ball Court is nuts
will be nice to get a leader who is not Megalomaniac because Maya really wants to build coliseum
Also, a more general comment: I think that Protectionism needs a buff. I don't know why you would ever choose it over Free Market. Welfare state is also pretty useless
is it intentional that there is no doctrine for skirmishers?
Routalempi
Chieftain
Of course there's a new, interesting civilization to test out when I'm on holidays and don't have a decent computer anywhere near me for weeks. 
SVN notes look really promising though.
SVN notes look really promising though.
Whenever I open RI, I get to "Init XML (uncached)," and then Civ IV stops responding. I have RI installed in:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization IV Beyond the Sword\Beyond the Sword\Mods".
(I set the install directory to "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization IV Beyond the Sword\Beyond the Sword".
I did not touch the mod beyond installing it, but it ctds every time I start it up. How can I fix this problem? The mod looks really cool.
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization IV Beyond the Sword\Beyond the Sword\Mods".
(I set the install directory to "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization IV Beyond the Sword\Beyond the Sword".
I did not touch the mod beyond installing it, but it ctds every time I start it up. How can I fix this problem? The mod looks really cool.
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Of course there's a new, interesting civilization to test out when I'm on holidays and don't have a decent computer anywhere near me for weeks.
SVN notes look really promising though.
It's better than promising. It's close to be finished.
Four leaders, one NI, two NUs, some flavor units, buildings and wonders...and a lot of fun for those who like jungles.
Hi, I found a big flaw in the tech tree: You can completely by-pass Enlightenment so that many wonders like Parthenon and Temple of Artemis don't go obsolete. I'd propose you to make Social Contract and Enlightenment prerequisites for Civil Liberties, so the problem does not occur.
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Yes. I Know. There's some minor problems with early renaissance tech tree.
Some changes will be done in the next days.
Ahnarras
Warlord
- Joined
- May 20, 2011
- Messages
- 267
I may have find a little bug : when playing as industrious, a craftsman specialist should grant 3 production, right? 2 base + 1 from civ bonus?
Well, as i'm playing ramses, they only grant a +2 bonus when i look into the of the production bar. It does show a +3 bonus when pushing alt while hovering the specialist face, but it doesn't seem to be taken in account while calculating the current production.
Well, as i'm playing ramses, they only grant a +2 bonus when i look into the of the production bar. It does show a +3 bonus when pushing alt while hovering the specialist face, but it doesn't seem to be taken in account while calculating the current production.
I have encountered a serious bug in the last SVN: My city didn't grow beyond the size 1, even it collected all the food, and i was producing surplus food. I started another game, and no problem occurred. So I don't know, how often that bug would appear. (Edit: I did not encounter this bug again, maybe it was a coincidence.)
I have read that with the last SVN, you have updated that the AI now prioritize the food a bit more. It is a good change, because I realised in my last game, that somewhere around late middle ages/renaissance, i have 15-20 sized cities, and all my opponents have mediocre cities with size 8-10 or so. Except for the Korea, which had magnificent 20+ sized cities. As a matter of fact, I and the Korea were dominating the game. The thing is, Korea has this very nice Farms with extra
so the AI automatically prioritize those improvements, and builds them all over the place, while the other civs think that normal farms are not good enough and build cottages (and don't work them afterwards :S).
But now, I'm playing the last version, and I did not observe any changes in the AI's choice of working tiles: Since you seem to be happy with the AI, I start to think, that there is a problem in my computer. My problem is this: I clear all the worked tiles. And turn the citizen automatization on. AI selects the worked tiles, and it actually makes a good choice. So I leave the things as they are, and play further. And at some point, AI suddenly decides not to work the cool 3
1 1:commerce tile any more and changes to a 0 3 0
tile. And as a result, AI lets to city grow in 12 turns instead of 4.
Now lets do some math: Lets say, I work the 3-1-1 tile for 4 turns and after the city grows I start the work the tile 0-3-0 additionally. At the end of 12 turns I've produced:
(3-1-1)*12 + (0-3-0)*8 = 36-36-12
Whereas AI works the 0-3-0 tile for 12 turns. He produces:
(0-3-0)*12 = 0-36-0
So I've produced 12 extra, same amount of , and my city grew to the next level.
So my problem is, actually AI starts well, but at some point messes things up, and I wonder, does the AI the same in your computers too?
I have read that with the last SVN, you have updated that the AI now prioritize the food a bit more. It is a good change, because I realised in my last game, that somewhere around late middle ages/renaissance, i have 15-20 sized cities, and all my opponents have mediocre cities with size 8-10 or so. Except for the Korea, which had magnificent 20+ sized cities. As a matter of fact, I and the Korea were dominating the game. The thing is, Korea has this very nice Farms with extra
so the AI automatically prioritize those improvements, and builds them all over the place, while the other civs think that normal farms are not good enough and build cottages (and don't work them afterwards :S).But now, I'm playing the last version, and I did not observe any changes in the AI's choice of working tiles: Since you seem to be happy with the AI, I start to think, that there is a problem in my computer. My problem is this: I clear all the worked tiles. And turn the citizen automatization on. AI selects the worked tiles, and it actually makes a good choice. So I leave the things as they are, and play further. And at some point, AI suddenly decides not to work the cool 3
1 1:commerce tile any more and changes to a 0 3 0 tile. And as a result, AI lets to city grow in 12 turns instead of 4.Now lets do some math: Lets say, I work the 3-1-1 tile for 4 turns and after the city grows I start the work the tile 0-3-0 additionally. At the end of 12 turns I've produced:
(3-1-1)*12 + (0-3-0)*8 = 36-36-12
Whereas AI works the 0-3-0 tile for 12 turns. He produces:
(0-3-0)*12 = 0-36-0
So I've produced 12 extra
, same amount of , and my city grew to the next level.So my problem is, actually AI starts well, but at some point messes things up, and I wonder, does the AI the same in your computers too?
Is it possible that you had the 'no-growth' option selected?
Warning: Long post ahead.
I had an idea while playing the other day, and I think it could go a long way both with realism and interesting and fun gameplay.
Currently Animal Husbandry is expressed by allowing players to build pastures on preexisting tile with an animal resource. It's clean, simple, somewhat boring, and unrealistic. I add the last one because farm animals weren't simply hanging around waiting for humans to take the initiative to milk them for all they're worth (literally), but rather an extended process of domestication in which wild animals were tamed.
Additionally, wild animals are currently simply barbarian threats, and that's all. That's a shame, as there is so much more that can be done with them. This proposal will give them added significance and impact.
What I propose is to bring animal hunting/domestication to Realism Invictus. Below is a breakdown of my current conception. The major particulars will be listed first. They will be followed by spoilers with further ideas that build on the primary concepts but are not requirements to the feature.
(Note: I haven't played any SVN since 3.2, so apologies in advance if I reference anything that has been made obsolete)
Grazing Grounds (Terrain Feature) - Resource tiles would not be animal-specific, as they currently are. Rather, they would represent good grazing grounds, much like the Fertile Soils, a generic tile that can support any type of domesticated animal (of perhaps only certain types of animals).
(Note: This has no relation to the Mongolian unique improvement; the name is simply a good fit, and so I am using it)
Pasture - Once Animal Husbandry is researched, pastures could be built on the grazing-ground tiles, but this will not immediately yield anything (or perhaps just a small benefit at best). When an animal is domesticated, they can be settled in a pasture to begin taming the animal and raising it for consumption, adding it as a resource to the civilization. The pasture will experience yield-growth, much like Cottages and the Viking Fishing Vessels, requiring it to be worked to reach maximum yield.
Wild Animals - Defeating a wild animal has a chance of giving you an animal unit similar to the slave unit. This animal can be brought to a city to provide a small food-bonus, similar to a slave's production bonus. If Animal Husbandry has been researched, they (or those that can be farmed) can be brought to and settled in a pasture, allowing its yield-growth to begin (with the animal in question determining the eventual yield), and providing the player with the appropriate animal resource. They could also be used for other, culture-specific values (imagine an Egyptian temple that gets a bonus from having cats, or offering cows/sheep as a sacrifice at a Greek or Roman temple for temporary happiness?)
Auxiliary Ideas:
Civics
Wild Animals and their Domesticated Counterparts
Diverse Pastures
Breeding Grounds
Unique Improvements
I had an idea while playing the other day, and I think it could go a long way both with realism and interesting and fun gameplay.
Currently Animal Husbandry is expressed by allowing players to build pastures on preexisting tile with an animal resource. It's clean, simple, somewhat boring, and unrealistic. I add the last one because farm animals weren't simply hanging around waiting for humans to take the initiative to milk them for all they're worth (literally), but rather an extended process of domestication in which wild animals were tamed.
Additionally, wild animals are currently simply barbarian threats, and that's all. That's a shame, as there is so much more that can be done with them. This proposal will give them added significance and impact.
What I propose is to bring animal hunting/domestication to Realism Invictus. Below is a breakdown of my current conception. The major particulars will be listed first. They will be followed by spoilers with further ideas that build on the primary concepts but are not requirements to the feature.
(Note: I haven't played any SVN since 3.2, so apologies in advance if I reference anything that has been made obsolete)
Grazing Grounds (Terrain Feature) - Resource tiles would not be animal-specific, as they currently are. Rather, they would represent good grazing grounds, much like the Fertile Soils, a generic tile that can support any type of domesticated animal (of perhaps only certain types of animals).
(Note: This has no relation to the Mongolian unique improvement; the name is simply a good fit, and so I am using it)
Pasture - Once Animal Husbandry is researched, pastures could be built on the grazing-ground tiles, but this will not immediately yield anything (or perhaps just a small benefit at best). When an animal is domesticated, they can be settled in a pasture to begin taming the animal and raising it for consumption, adding it as a resource to the civilization. The pasture will experience yield-growth, much like Cottages and the Viking Fishing Vessels, requiring it to be worked to reach maximum yield.
Wild Animals - Defeating a wild animal has a chance of giving you an animal unit similar to the slave unit. This animal can be brought to a city to provide a small food-bonus, similar to a slave's production bonus. If Animal Husbandry has been researched, they (or those that can be farmed) can be brought to and settled in a pasture, allowing its yield-growth to begin (with the animal in question determining the eventual yield), and providing the player with the appropriate animal resource. They could also be used for other, culture-specific values (imagine an Egyptian temple that gets a bonus from having cats, or offering cows/sheep as a sacrifice at a Greek or Roman temple for temporary happiness?)
Auxiliary Ideas:
Civics
Spoiler :
Wild Animals and their Domesticated Counterparts
Spoiler :
Diverse Pastures
Spoiler :
Breeding Grounds
Spoiler :
Unique Improvements
Spoiler :
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
Hmnn. That sounds a lot like what C2C does in it's mod. While I agree with you that from a realism point of view it would be awesome, I'm not exactly sure how the devs would be able to implement it and make it unique for RI mod. I'd be really interested in hearing what Walter, Hian, and the rest of the RI team's viewpoint on this would be.
Really? Never played C2C. I'll have to check it out.
@ [Y]:
So you are proposing the following, did I understand correctly? :
1. There are no resources like sheep, pig etc. in the beginning of the game. There are only, grazing grounds. On those grazing grounds you can build pastures.
2. You somehow captivate wild mouflon, boar etc.
3. You bring it to a pasture, settle the wild animal there. You now have a pasture with sheep, pig etc.
4. Your pasture grows with time.
---
So, first of all, a side note: The point 3 is probably difficult to implement. Therefore I'd suggest that the captivated animal can sacrifice itself and a pasture appears on the tile (so, just like the work boat). I think it will be very easy to implement then.
I think you want to take advantage of the fact that animals are transportable and you want to be able to build a pasture, where-ever it pleases you, not only there where some wild sheep hangs around. Because of that, you want to simulate the animal domestication process in detail. Am I right? The thing is, that not only the animals but almost every resource has spread from somewhere to somewhere else during the whole history of mankind. Grains, lemons, banana, tobacco, cotton,... So in the real world, the resources are overall much more dynamic than in the Civilization IV. Even the minerals like iron or gold should be much more dynamic, because, the old mineral resources are exhausted, and new ones are discovered all the time. So making the animal domestication more dynamic is not more important than making the other resources more dynamic.
So you are proposing the following, did I understand correctly? :
1. There are no resources like sheep, pig etc. in the beginning of the game. There are only, grazing grounds. On those grazing grounds you can build pastures.
2. You somehow captivate wild mouflon, boar etc.
3. You bring it to a pasture, settle the wild animal there. You now have a pasture with sheep, pig etc.
4. Your pasture grows with time.
---
So, first of all, a side note: The point 3 is probably difficult to implement. Therefore I'd suggest that the captivated animal can sacrifice itself and a pasture appears on the tile (so, just like the work boat). I think it will be very easy to implement then.
I think you want to take advantage of the fact that animals are transportable and you want to be able to build a pasture, where-ever it pleases you, not only there where some wild sheep hangs around. Because of that, you want to simulate the animal domestication process in detail. Am I right? The thing is, that not only the animals but almost every resource has spread from somewhere to somewhere else during the whole history of mankind. Grains, lemons, banana, tobacco, cotton,... So in the real world, the resources are overall much more dynamic than in the Civilization IV. Even the minerals like iron or gold should be much more dynamic, because, the old mineral resources are exhausted, and new ones are discovered all the time. So making the animal domestication more dynamic is not more important than making the other resources more dynamic.
