ThERat
Deity
Will test that out and return for the final kill of Germany a few turns later.
Realism Invictus
- Thread starter Walter Hawkwood
- Start date
Thanks.
I was having a blast, literally. The game was long, I finally got to tech every tech there is (the rest stayed in industrial/early modern) and I was preventing the AI getting the cultural victory with nukes. Using the Pol/Cha/Iso leader for vikings I had quite an easy start for the game, since diplomacy in early game really matters. Also founding really good cities in america helped me alot, esspecially while teching towards ICBMs (I had choice of Space Race, Conquest or Diplo).
I could have won the diplo victory, as in the end game I was big enough for vote myself to victory.
Thanks, I'll start another game in a day or two. Thanks for settings.
Also I would recommend to everyone to use more players (I used 17 players for large earth map)
civman110
Immortal
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2012
- Messages
- 2,111
Anytime
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The "fear" promotion is overpowered to the point of becoming extremely frustrating. I just got slaughtered attacking a city with my 39 heavily promoted elite units against roughly 15 slightly outdated units. The city was bombarded to 0% defence and I also range attacked the units inside until I couldn't anymore. There was a single unit in that city which gave the fear promotion. If it wasn't for that one unit I may have taken 3 casualties, 4 max.
Ambassador
Peacemonger
Anytime
---
The "fear" promotion is overpowered to the point of becoming extremely frustrating. I just got slaughtered attacking a city with my 39 heavily promoted elite units against roughly 15 slightly outdated units. The city was bombarded to 0% defence and I also range attacked the units inside until I couldn't anymore. There was a single unit in that city which gave the fear promotion. If it wasn't for that one unit I may have taken 3 casualties, 4 max.
It could be related to the fear promotion. But did one of the defending units have a couple of drill promotions? That usually causes my slaughters, even when I attack a city with drilled longbowmen with my heavily promoted fusiliers. They are hard to defeat. I easily loose 10 fusiliers, with additional bombardment, stack aid and 0% city defence against 2 or 3 drilled longbowmen. Maybe I should drill my attacking units as well instead of promoting them along the city raider line.
civman110
Immortal
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2012
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- 2,111
It could be related to the fear promotion. But did one of the defending units have a couple of drill promotions? That usually causes my slaughters, even when I attack a city with drilled longbowmen with my heavily promoted fusiliers. They are hard to defeat. I easily loose 10 fusiliers, with additional bombardment, stack aid and 0% city defence against 2 or 3 drilled longbowmen. Maybe I should drill my attacking units as well instead of promoting them along the city raider line.
Nope. Just the Egyptian's single Galatikoi Kleruchoi. The unit is promoted to 25% vs. Melee and has 2 city attack promotions along with inflict fear.
Now mind you I'm playing as the Romans and I have the Doctrine of Imperial Glory and many highly promoted Imperial Legionary, Auxillia, mounted units, and a few highly promoted bowmen. The only other units the Egyptians have is a few bowmen, some mounted units, and several New Kingdom Spearmen and that single iron age swordsmen. They should be a cake walk especially with my seige units. Instead I killed 2 bowmen and every single one of my units got slaughtered.
Does anyone ever use the Guild Monopoly civic? What is the point of this civic? It has no contest with Merchant Princes.
Republic seems bad as well unless you're stuck with few cities. I also don't get Monarchy right now.
Despotism diminishes city costs, so why change?
Republic seems bad as well unless you're stuck with few cities. I also don't get Monarchy right now.
Despotism diminishes city costs, so why change?
civman110
Immortal
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- Jan 14, 2012
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I use them all. What's best depends entirely on your situation. Monarchy and Republic are better civics than Despotism due to their unique buildings and various extra benefits, but Despotism is cheaper. Guild Monopoly; the same situation. It has a world wonder associated with it and guilds that boost your cities' production and income. If your empire isn't spread out over a large distance then it would have a clear advantage over Merchant Princess.
For large expansive empires Despotism/Merchant Princess is best early on.
For smaller civs more focused on science and culture Republic/Monarchy/Guild Monopoly is usually best.
I often find Guild Monopoly to be pretty decent for large empires as well.
How so? Merchant Princes grants immediately the same trade benefits without having to build anything. How is that not superior? Similar benefit, no hammers necessary!
The extra commerce in plantations is typical better than the Guild's extra improvement commerce also and the +5% gold is not enough to tip the scale, not by a long shot.
No, I still don't get it.
Here's the thing, bigger is always better. So, why wouldnt I stay with that combo?
I have to support my +15 cities entering medieval time somewhat. Fewer cities just leads to a slower game. I always bulb Rudder or at least Guilds to get Merchant Princes faster. I rather get an advantage early. Otherwise, staying put, the AI grabs all the land and its harder to hold off the inevitable hordes.
(btw, just had a kick again (since its a normal event) from Spain suiciding 30 units vs the tribal forts separating the peninsula from central europe. Of course, the tribal forts perished (yeah, right...) and they declared at friendly... typical... So playing as the Romans I had 23 cities before Renaissance. How am I ever let go of Despotism/Merchant Princess until Enlightment? And if I stay put how could I ever win the game? I rather waste time rushing the Great Lighthouse to support stuff instead of using Guilds Monopoly. No, I don't get it. Maybe it was better before the nerfing of trade and stuff, I don't know. Maybe it should boost domestic trade as well for a change.)
civman110
Immortal
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Well you also have to remember that Merchant Princess comes along a fair bit later in the tech tree too... Merchant Princess doesn't have any bonuses to production and it's bonuses to commerce are far less than Guild Monopoly.
I think you are simply focusing on the amount of commerce you save from the -25% maintenance cost from distance to palace and like I said before this depends on your situation; how big your empire is and how centralized your capital is.
Just to compare Merchant Princess gives you:
+ 25% increase from trade routes - however Guild Monopoly comes along earlier when Merchant Princess isn't available and you can get this benefit from building a Guild, so if you already have Guilds built this is really no extra benefit to you. Guild Monopoly also has a +5% revenues per city!
+1 from Plantations - Guild Monopoly gives you +1 from Whaling, boats, salt pit & winery, so the +1 just from plantations is actually worse. Guilds also give you +1 from a market and a grocer and +1 hammer from a forge/blast furnance and +1 espionage point from a tavern. Then you also have the option of adding a GP to the city due to your Guild, which will bring in even more revenue. Guild Monopoly is much better in this area.
+1 Trade Routes per city - This is an advantage over Guild Monopoly.
-25% cost from distance to palace - This is the largest advantage over Guild Monopoly.
However, if you are running Guild Monopoly and you manage to build the Hanseatic League you receive a +100% trade route yield, +1 commerce to harbour and 2 merchants in that city, which should equal, or exceed the bonuses from Merchant Princess' +1 to trade routes and -25% maintenance from distance to palace as long as your empire isn't too spread out.
Due to these advantages I often find myself running Guild Monopoly while also having a fairly large empire, under the right circumstances. I'm not saying Merchant Princess can't be better than Guild Monopoly. I'm simply saying - it depends.
Bigger isn't always better. It depends on what kind a victory you are going for and your play style, also sometimes you are unable to expand as much as you would like to and other civics such as Republic/Guild Monopoly are much better choices.
In fact, you can build a really scary empire with Republic, Guild Monopoly, and Militancy, which will allow you to have a highly upgraded and fierce army. Then with republic's bonuses to culture, city defences, and GP production you can out tech your rivals, build wonders and have a much more advanced and well trained military. Of course there's a lot of things that have to come together to run expensive civics like Republic and Militancy. If you like playing with the Romans this is a really fun strategy due to their unique Crusader units and Swiss Guards. If you manage to found one or a combination of military doctrines such as Imperial Glory, Trained Archers, and Holy War you're not a civ to be messed with.
With this kind of a strategy I can easily make a much larger civ's life hell because I'm able to cut through their units and they can't overcome my defences. Then I simply pillage their improvements, loot and raze their cities and keep the cities that will provide me with luxury resources and boosts to commerce. Controlling holy cities, spreading the relevant religions, and converting civs also helps quite a bit to rally allies and add gold to your war chest.
I stand by what I said before. I don't think you thought about what I said.
The +1 to plantations is better in the long run than +1 to whaling boats, salt pit & winery because plantations tend to be more common in random maps (In central europe +1 to wineries tends to be better). There's nothing more to say about the rest. I'm not to spend hundreds of hammers on the Guild Monopoly builds when I can get almost the same thing for free with Merchant Princes. The civics' benefits should be more different. The +5 gold is rubbish. They do this taking into account other multipliers, but its rubbish compared to maintenance savings even with few cities. Merchant Princes is also just one step from Guild Monopoly, they are very close.
And of course, bigger is always better. You can enjoy playing with few cities, but its always better. I can out tech the AI easier with Merchant Princes than with other civics. So that's that. Oh noes, they're gonna nerf it now.
The +1 to plantations is better in the long run than +1 to whaling boats, salt pit & winery because plantations tend to be more common in random maps (In central europe +1 to wineries tends to be better). There's nothing more to say about the rest. I'm not to spend hundreds of hammers on the Guild Monopoly builds when I can get almost the same thing for free with Merchant Princes. The civics' benefits should be more different. The +5 gold is rubbish. They do this taking into account other multipliers, but its rubbish compared to maintenance savings even with few cities. Merchant Princes is also just one step from Guild Monopoly, they are very close.
And of course, bigger is always better. You can enjoy playing with few cities, but its always better. I can out tech the AI easier with Merchant Princes than with other civics. So that's that. Oh noes, they're gonna nerf it now.
civman110
Immortal
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- Jan 14, 2012
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- 2,111
Well you're entitled to your opinion.
Playing on higher difficulties you can't afford to have enormous empires early on.
Do you play the official or the SVN?
And about the topic I mostly use despotism until I have the reguirements for merchant republic along with the merchant princes and Plutocracy.
I fail the see the point in monarchy.
HannibalBarka
We are Free
Guild is indeed underpowered I think as you usually need to have a "big" empire if you want to have a chance to win on higher levels (emp +). I however do use Monarchy because of happiness when I need to leave Paganism (usually when I discover theology and make Pagan temples obsolete): in my new cities, I can't build Despotism happy building (can't remember the name) because it needs a pagan temple.
tchristensen
Emperor
Such a great mod. After playing the game a few times, I decided to unleash all the possible civilizations both to the AI as well as players (we play multiplayer across a static IP).
At first I thought many of the civilizations would be utterly horrible and worthless, but to my surprise they are ruthless and quite smart.
The Native Americans for example suffer no Distance from the Palace penalty but is at a horrible Tech penalty. Aside from that, they can't build workers until later in the game but then to offset they can construct buildings that do away with the need to find the important metal resources.
Others I tweaked a bit, giving the Polynesians and the Genoans ships that can travel early on into the Oceans.
I find it so wildly cool to play a 20 AI player game, and see all the hidden empires and civilizations in the vanilla version of this mod.
Kudos to all the designers.
At first I thought many of the civilizations would be utterly horrible and worthless, but to my surprise they are ruthless and quite smart.
The Native Americans for example suffer no Distance from the Palace penalty but is at a horrible Tech penalty. Aside from that, they can't build workers until later in the game but then to offset they can construct buildings that do away with the need to find the important metal resources.
Others I tweaked a bit, giving the Polynesians and the Genoans ships that can travel early on into the Oceans.
I find it so wildly cool to play a 20 AI player game, and see all the hidden empires and civilizations in the vanilla version of this mod.
Kudos to all the designers.
Soulmate
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 181
This mod is incredibly addictive, and I have a huge list of civilizations I want to play but don't have time to(I already have 2 ongoing games which I want to finish, but who knows when 
).
Apart from that there are some minor things(I would rather call them balancing issues) that I would like to discuss and hopefuly devs of this mod will listen up. I already named few of them in my previous post so I will jsut wait untill devs respond to not overflow them with information.
But while they are busy let's discuss some tactics/strategies :
1) Alot of people already mentioned the overwhelming superiority of the Despotism over any other early civic but I found myself using it untill industrial era . How long do you guyz stick to Despotism ?
2) I couldn't find any practical use for Crossbowman, I find idea of having any in the stack rather useles. Does someone actualy knows how to use them effective enough ?
3) Also I can't find any reason to build Levies/Irregulars at all. Their cost is almost as theirs proffesional counterparts and food production doesn't cover the strenght difference at all. Does anyone actualy use them ?
4) Again about the Great Library(I think this wonder is way overpowered). In every game I played I was able to build it even without marble, AI simply ignore this tech for some reason. Is it just my luck ?
5) I played 2 games with tech transfer and found it enjoyable early on but not quiet what I like later on, I had to feed the AI techs through the map editor in order to keep them on pair. It is more of a personal preference but I like it when even small civilizations(or big but that fell behind in sciense too much) can posses threat strong enough to send troops on them. How do you guyz play it ? With techtransfer or in old way ?
). Apart from that there are some minor things(I would rather call them balancing issues) that I would like to discuss and hopefuly devs of this mod will listen up. I already named few of them in my previous post so I will jsut wait untill devs respond to not overflow them with information.
But while they are busy let's discuss some tactics/strategies :
1) Alot of people already mentioned the overwhelming superiority of the Despotism over any other early civic but I found myself using it untill industrial era . How long do you guyz stick to Despotism ?
2) I couldn't find any practical use for Crossbowman, I find idea of having any in the stack rather useles. Does someone actualy knows how to use them effective enough ?
3) Also I can't find any reason to build Levies/Irregulars at all. Their cost is almost as theirs proffesional counterparts and food production doesn't cover the strenght difference at all. Does anyone actualy use them ?
4) Again about the Great Library(I think this wonder is way overpowered). In every game I played I was able to build it even without marble, AI simply ignore this tech for some reason. Is it just my luck ?
5) I played 2 games with tech transfer and found it enjoyable early on but not quiet what I like later on, I had to feed the AI techs through the map editor in order to keep them on pair. It is more of a personal preference but I like it when even small civilizations(or big but that fell behind in sciense too much) can posses threat strong enough to send troops on them. How do you guyz play it ? With techtransfer or in old way ?
SVN.
Many times until I get Democracy.
They will crush those that are still using mainly swordman type units. A combination of Longbowman and pikeman will be better for defense eventually, but they're not bad to beat back those bronze and iron working units and they're cheap enough as well.
Some cities have enough food but not hammers, so yeah. And cities with hammers and food can build them quite fast. Thats pretty much it. They are cheaper for sure, so they serve as good cannon fodder when trying to not waste too much production, for example when trying to conquer cities with tribal forts (heh)...
Its not that hard to beat the AI to important wonders, especially since you can almost always get the pyramids and the great engineer that will pop, saving it for something important. The AI doesn't really wonder whore unless its isolated (sometimes the English on the huge world map will wonder whore like crazy). In my current game with the Zulu on the the huge world map/Immortal I built 8 world wonders without trying (not pyramids though, I just started by craking out settlers and workers) and still in Medieval era with 14 cities (two more on the way, since the remaining Swahili cities lost their tribal forts).
If you think the great library is great put it together with Gondeshapur and see yourself getting the tech lead vs Immortal AIs. I had to close some borders so that they don't catch up easily!
Btw I hate that cities take so long to culture flip even when they have just the one city tile, made me lose my patience and waste like 15 units.
With tech transfer. What difficulty are we talking about? Just step it up.
JeremyHussell
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2005
- Messages
- 37
Is there a way to turn off great people notifications? I'm tired of getting spammed by "Great general X has been born in a faraway city!" messages early in the game.
Is there a way to take the default name of a random leader when you start a game? Right now I have to remind myself to change my name at the beginning of each game, or just accept the other leaders calling me by whatever silly name I made up for myself at game start.
O.K., now something that's easily fixable: I tried to pillage some fishing boats with the Shift-P shortcut recently, and the ship blockaded instead. Turns out they have the same shortcut.
I've noticed that Light Infantry have a weird glitch in their combat animation where one of the guns is pointing straight up while the soldier acts like he's firing it at the enemy.
Anyway, since I feel bad for writing about nothing but minor bugs and problems, I'd like to mention that I love Realism Invictus, not just for its balance, added content, and completeness, but for the various convenience mods integrated into it, to the point that playing most other mods has me missing all the extra features in RI. Vanilla Civ4 feels unfinished compared to RI.
Is there a way to take the default name of a random leader when you start a game? Right now I have to remind myself to change my name at the beginning of each game, or just accept the other leaders calling me by whatever silly name I made up for myself at game start.
O.K., now something that's easily fixable: I tried to pillage some fishing boats with the Shift-P shortcut recently, and the ship blockaded instead. Turns out they have the same shortcut.
I've noticed that Light Infantry have a weird glitch in their combat animation where one of the guns is pointing straight up while the soldier acts like he's firing it at the enemy.
Anyway, since I feel bad for writing about nothing but minor bugs and problems, I'd like to mention that I love Realism Invictus, not just for its balance, added content, and completeness, but for the various convenience mods integrated into it, to the point that playing most other mods has me missing all the extra features in RI. Vanilla Civ4 feels unfinished compared to RI.
Soulmate
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 181
I played on Monarch difficulty , mostly because it gives enough challenge and doesn't force me into wars for supremacy(well at least for some time). But it looks like I should reconsider the difficulty(Immortal is too much of tryharding for me though 
).
I also play on large random maps(due to 32 bit system) so things there are more intense and if some AI goes on rampage and conquers half of the map he is able to tech on pair with me but all other just drag behind without any threat(and at some point I jsut feed them techs to give them capable forces). Also on Legendary game speed 10+tech differense is insane power gap , especialy after medieval era. Does any of the factors I implied actualy affect the tech transfer or should I just increase difficulty ?
About the levies : on legendary speed production difference between the irregulars and fusiliers are 1-2 turns and it doesn't compensate the power gap at all :< I would consider reducing their cost even more , does anyone agree with that ?
The thing I also wanted to ask is about large world map(I assume now that it might be difficulty issue again). In my Aztec game All eastern factions exept for the Mongols, Dravidian empire and Japan(duo to isolation) got crushed by the barbarians pretty easily. What is your experience on that matter guyz?
P.S. Also, in the same game English empire went "wonder whoring"(no Great Libraby-Gondenashpur combo though) and doubles my gold income with their 4 cities and soon will be ahead of me in techs by almost an era(wooho... Long live the Queen).
). I also play on large random maps(due to 32 bit system) so things there are more intense and if some AI goes on rampage and conquers half of the map he is able to tech on pair with me but all other just drag behind without any threat(and at some point I jsut feed them techs to give them capable forces). Also on Legendary game speed 10+tech differense is insane power gap , especialy after medieval era. Does any of the factors I implied actualy affect the tech transfer or should I just increase difficulty ?
About the levies : on legendary speed production difference between the irregulars and fusiliers are 1-2 turns and it doesn't compensate the power gap at all :< I would consider reducing their cost even more , does anyone agree with that ?
The thing I also wanted to ask is about large world map(I assume now that it might be difficulty issue again). In my Aztec game All eastern factions exept for the Mongols, Dravidian empire and Japan(duo to isolation) got crushed by the barbarians pretty easily. What is your experience on that matter guyz?
P.S. Also, in the same game English empire went "wonder whoring"(no Great Libraby-Gondenashpur combo though
) and doubles my gold income with their 4 cities and soon will be ahead of me in techs by almost an era(wooho... Long live the Queen).I never played anything but the slower speed. Maybe there's more imbalances in other speeds, I don't know.
Asia is a Barbarian fest. If I start there and don't get the great wall I just give up. Its too annoying to be worth it. One plays for fun.
I think Monarch is too easy and bores me. Emperor is okay. Immortal is already a jump and a grind on non crowded maps and if an AI somewhere gets to 20 cities easily by classical era, whats the point of continuing? (on the worlds maps its fine, besides its easy to worker steal and get an advantage early and all that). I don't think the handicaps are really that balanced for such a slow game, but whatever.
Asia is a Barbarian fest. If I start there and don't get the great wall I just give up. Its too annoying to be worth it. One plays for fun.
I think Monarch is too easy and bores me. Emperor is okay. Immortal is already a jump and a grind on non crowded maps and if an AI somewhere gets to 20 cities easily by classical era, whats the point of continuing? (on the worlds maps its fine, besides its easy to worker steal and get an advantage early and all that). I don't think the handicaps are really that balanced for such a slow game, but whatever.
