I made my own huge world map with Europe 1/3 larger and noth africa, removed all the minor American civilizations and the African and Pacific ones, now they are all barbarian cities, and added only Ukraine, now there are 39 civilizations, the map is slightly larger 218 x 95, compared to 210x 90 of the current one, if Walter wants to insert it into the r.i. version I would be happy to share it, compatible with the latest svn. It might seem out of scale, but it is much closer to reality than it may seem, especially if you compare the former Soviet Union, with Europe as it is in reality, I have included a map that shows the correct proportions
Realism Invictus
- Thread starter Walter Hawkwood
- Start date
Ahnarras
Warlord
- Joined
- May 20, 2011
- Messages
- 248
That's a great question. If we go with the classical definition of a "civilization" as defined by Spengler or Toynbee, and not the warped version that Sid Meier helped popularise, I'd say... 12-ish? Definitely more than 8 and less than 20. If we go with the strict modern academic definition, I'd say 6 (Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Indo-Gangetic, Chinese, Caral-Supe and Olmec). I am quite open to reducing the playable number to that amount.
If you present it like that... Let's just leave it like it is
I was feeling the same while reading his comment. Adding a leader seems to be a lot less work than a whole Civ.
Perhaps a bit more if you want to keep a personal city list, but I guess some would be close enough to be able to share their cities names ?
But what I really liked about that idea was the suggestion to use governmental doctrine (or perhaps the current Era ?) to limit the list of leaders. It's always a bit oddish to see Cesar threatening you with a mass bombardment from modern bombers or De Gaulle leading a charge of Axemen in the woods.
On a similar topic : how I would love to bring back the evolving leaderhead from Civilization III ! My RP was enjoying it so much to see their cloths and hairstyle evolve with the game
I wanted to give another feedback, then in my opinion the buildings from industrialism onwards take too long to be built, a well populated and developed city needs even more than 40 turns to build an airport, in reality in modern times it takes a maximum of 6 years to make an airport, for a mega structure maybe 10 or 12, but not 30 years, because then you get to 200 turns from the end of the game, and practically with two buildings you have finished all the time and you have no time to enjoy them in game
Could be an interesting version of the world map that depends on revolutions and barb civs to branch into more civs.
Speaking of which, does separatism increase with distance from palace? Feels like an appropriate factor, and encourages breakaway civs to be further apart from the core of a civ, which makes for nicer maps and more practical borders. Looking at the code I see some factors that decrease with distance, but I didn't look too carefully at what they're decreasing or what the distance is from.
Hi! Haven’t written here for some time. Let me share impressions of a game I’ve finished. SVN 5490, my usual settings, Russian civ. Finally managed to thoroughly play the Russian civ and not drop in the early game due to lack of forests.
1) First a bit of wacky randomness. Over the course of a whole game I made like half a dozen mines and got 2 resource procs. But after working literally dozens of lovischches from ancient era up to modern era I got ZERO procs. I even checked the xml file: the probabilities are the same but alas.
2) I’d like resolve some stuff related to Gulyay Gorod:
a) I think it’s way too big, it doesn’t fit a tile, the cart part extends to another tile and produces missclicks;
b) why does the unit upgrade to Cuirassiers? GG retains its usefulness way beyond the era of Cuirassiers;
c) GG becomes obsolete with Troop Mobility (first modern era tech) however requires bronze which had become obsolete like 8 rows of techs earlier.
3) Something was wrong (or at least I think it’s wrong) with computer players. In the current game all enemies (and even barbarians) have been producing an obscene (disproportionally high) amount of defensive units. There was even a moment when one civ left around 30 Longbowmen NOT upgraded even when it had both resources and technology to upgrade them. I’ve never seen such behavior before.
I think this led to a very stagnant world tech progression. For the first time in my emperor games I was technologically uncontested by a HUGE margin. The only civ that managed to advance techs quicker than me was a softlocked (behind mountains) 3 city civ on my continent during classical and medieval while I was handling my early conquests.
4) A bit of feedback on separatism. Not unique since I observe the same that’s usually reported here: computer players are competent at handling separatism, there are occasional revolts when AI loses a lot of units in war however most of the states created by separatism were either reconquered or left to rot into obscurity.
5) Computer players use craftsmen while producing wealth instead (not even in addition to) of merchants.
6) Some adjacent units in Russian upgrade lines cost the same. Cavalry – Modern Cavalry, Early Bomber – Tactical Bomber, Attack Aircraft – UCAV (even getting cheaper here).
7) IIRC there was a time when unique units were not upgradeable. What was the reasoning behind making them upgradeable to regular units?
8) There is a custom game option Unrestricted Leaders that allows to get any starting leader for any civ. However with a Switch Leaders Every Era setting you are then limited to leaders native to that civ. Are there any plans to make these options work together (if it’s even possible)?
P.S. Lenin + Pisa tower = OP
1) First a bit of wacky randomness. Over the course of a whole game I made like half a dozen mines and got 2 resource procs. But after working literally dozens of lovischches from ancient era up to modern era I got ZERO procs. I even checked the xml file: the probabilities are the same but alas.
2) I’d like resolve some stuff related to Gulyay Gorod:
a) I think it’s way too big, it doesn’t fit a tile, the cart part extends to another tile and produces missclicks;
b) why does the unit upgrade to Cuirassiers? GG retains its usefulness way beyond the era of Cuirassiers;
c) GG becomes obsolete with Troop Mobility (first modern era tech) however requires bronze which had become obsolete like 8 rows of techs earlier.
3) Something was wrong (or at least I think it’s wrong) with computer players. In the current game all enemies (and even barbarians) have been producing an obscene (disproportionally high) amount of defensive units. There was even a moment when one civ left around 30 Longbowmen NOT upgraded even when it had both resources and technology to upgrade them. I’ve never seen such behavior before.
I think this led to a very stagnant world tech progression. For the first time in my emperor games I was technologically uncontested by a HUGE margin. The only civ that managed to advance techs quicker than me was a softlocked (behind mountains) 3 city civ on my continent during classical and medieval while I was handling my early conquests.
4) A bit of feedback on separatism. Not unique since I observe the same that’s usually reported here: computer players are competent at handling separatism, there are occasional revolts when AI loses a lot of units in war however most of the states created by separatism were either reconquered or left to rot into obscurity.
5) Computer players use craftsmen while producing wealth instead (not even in addition to) of merchants.
6) Some adjacent units in Russian upgrade lines cost the same. Cavalry – Modern Cavalry, Early Bomber – Tactical Bomber, Attack Aircraft – UCAV (even getting cheaper here).
7) IIRC there was a time when unique units were not upgradeable. What was the reasoning behind making them upgradeable to regular units?
8) There is a custom game option Unrestricted Leaders that allows to get any starting leader for any civ. However with a Switch Leaders Every Era setting you are then limited to leaders native to that civ. Are there any plans to make these options work together (if it’s even possible)?
P.S. Lenin + Pisa tower = OP
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
One can already do that on a random map or even on EarthEvolution!
It doesn't. Distance calculations would have quite a hefty performance cost and wouldn't be transparent to players (given the high number of involved parameters, such as map sizes, additional palace-like buildings etc).
From what I understand, the chance is checked independently for each resource. So a mine that's able to discover 9 different resources is 9 times more likely to discover something (if all 9 are already revealed by tech).
I'll reduce it somewhat. Didn't want it too small, as the figures in it would appear comically mismatched to other units.
I can see how one would think that; will bump the upgrade to cavalry instead. But in any case, nobody is forcing an upgrade - if one feels like it, one can stick with the NU and never upgrade at all (for an aid bonus, for instance).
I don't remember why it needs to go obsolete at all, TBH. I'll just remove the obsolescence.
I believe that's a separatism AI bug that I fixed in one of the most recent SVN revisions. AI would be far too afraid of separatism, and would paranoidly build infinite units. Should be fine now.
I'll have a look into it.
Cavalry - Modern Cavalry is due to them having more expensive Cavalry. I guess I'll bump Modern Cav up a bit. Conversely, in the case of Early Bomber - Tactical Bomber, their Tactical Bomber is cheaper than usual (maybe I'll knock down the early bomber a bit, but I'm not sure). And in the case of Attack Aircraft - UCAV, it's intentional. It's the only case on the unit upgrade tree where the more modern unit is actually cheaper.
There was never such a time. They were always upgradeable.
I never thought about using those together. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.
AspiringScholar
King
Funny how you managed to exclude the single most requested playable civilization.
May I hazard the guess that this would be Khmer/"Southeast Asian meta-civilization"?
If my opinion is worth anything, I particularly enjoy and appreciate the philosophical approach towards defining a "civilization" in RI, whose various forms are rather flexible and flavorfully different in their manifestation based upon leaders, civic choices, eras, etc., and reflected along those lines in names, titles, colors, etc, without doing any harm to the notion of a "core" identity. That is a rather strong and beautiful implementation in the game, and I can't think of a modern strategy game that offers the same flexibility of identity in a compelling and non-shoehorned way.
Along those lines, I feel entirely satisfied with the way that RI has modeled the "great" major cultures of the world and their various derivatives and siblings, even factoring in major political angles for significant historical representation which go beyond the merely macroscopic ideas of what a similar "playable" civilization ought to be. (One of my most fun games ever was as the USA losing to a derivative Texas, and I don't think that if they were playable from the start, it would have made that more exciting or immersive.) I do think that, if anything, Southeast Asia is the one major civilization and culture that doesn't really get much full representation in the game, so if there's bandwidth for just one more, that would get my vote, but I do think that literally the entire globe is pretty well accounted for otherwise, conceptually, along the basis of what the game purports to be and defines an in-game civilization as.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Nope, you guessed wrong. If I were forced at gunpoint to add one more, that would be it, but it's definitely not the most frequently requested. The most frequently requested, of course, is Brazil (mainly due to how many Brazilians there are).
In my current game on World Map (almost up to date SVN), it appears Revolutions is on for AI civs (I realize "fist icon" on the score board next to some Civs). But in my cities, there is no Revolutions indicator or something.
Is Revolutions enabled for the World Map Scenarios? I would love to test it
Is Revolutions enabled for the World Map Scenarios? I would love to test it
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
That's a completely different fist icon. It's a WHEOOH indicator!
yurv3
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2019
- Messages
- 32
Is it possible that when the era changes, not all the leader options change, but only the more historically appropriate ones? Add 3 leaders per era. And choose from them. I'm also somewhat surprised that Gulyai City improves into cuirassiers. Wouldn't it be more logical to develop artillery? Is it possible to remove GG's ability to attack?
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I have a few noob questions. Although I think most of the questions are about the vanilla game, since most likely nothing has been changed in RI, I'm asking these questions here since I only play RI.
1. i surrounded a ki's island with my gunboats and gave the order ‘blockade’ to all of them.
I am not at war with the AI.
Now the AI should no longer have trade routes to foreign countries, but should still be able to trade resources, right?
2. i didn't get any diplomatic penalty because of my action, but shouldn't this worsen relations between two nations?
3. the AI in question has now attacked me. When I asked in the diplomacy menu whether it wanted to wage war against a third nation, it didn't say that it had enough other things to worry about at the moment.
So was the AI bribed to wage war against me?
4. is there a key combination with which I can select all units of the same type?
1. i surrounded a ki's island with my gunboats and gave the order ‘blockade’ to all of them.
I am not at war with the AI.
Now the AI should no longer have trade routes to foreign countries, but should still be able to trade resources, right?
2. i didn't get any diplomatic penalty because of my action, but shouldn't this worsen relations between two nations?
3. the AI in question has now attacked me. When I asked in the diplomacy menu whether it wanted to wage war against a third nation, it didn't say that it had enough other things to worry about at the moment.
So was the AI bribed to wage war against me?
4. is there a key combination with which I can select all units of the same type?
Hmm. I wonder if it could piggy back on distance-to-palace maintenance costs, thus avoiding needing to make any calculation at all beyond scaling the separatism, and also exposing it to the player. It would also turn Courthouses into a deterrent, which makes sense. With inflation it also provides a nice and natural escalation over time.
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1) IIRC naval blockades affect only civs you're at war with. If you want to blockade an AI without being at war, you need Privateers.
2) see 1), not being at war your blockade has no effect on that civ.
4) Ctrl + click on the desired unit icon in the lower central part of the screen (where you see the icons of all units on the selected tile). This will select all units of the same type.
Alt + click on any unit to select all units on that tile
Shift + click on specific single units to select and group only those units
(No answer to 3) as I don't know enough about AI decision making)
"Song played when civ with 40+ cities in modern era hit in separatism bell with 160% full power" (because it use modern style, but making this in style of rennesaince,indrustrial or classic is possible to make)
strange that this mod does not yet have its own music theme for each leader in each era, but I always explain to myself that the installer would swell even more
I wonder if it would be difficult to implement to add, for example, a 3% chance that instead of the standard horn sound when war start, the player would hear music with a style reminiscent of songs from a particular historical era
https://jumpshare.com/s/7tWuygFeUGIqSrlhSnX2
[Verse]
The soil shakes with the tread of men
Steel on steel
It begins again
The banners rise
The winds they howl
Through the ages
We take the vow
[Prechorus]
Brick by brick
The empires climb
Ashes fall with the weight of time
[Chorus]
Marching through the years
Through the fire
Through the stone
We build
We break
We bleed
We own
The march of ages
The fight for the throne
Who will rise
Who will be overthrown
[Verse 2]
Plows turn to swords in the setting sun
A thousand battles
Yet none are won
Wisdom whispers
But greed will shout
History’s circle
We can’t climb out
[Prechorus]
Crown by crown
The victors fade
Dust returns to the plans we made
[Chorus]
Marching through the years
Through the fire
Through the stone
We build
We break
We bleed
We own
The march of ages
The fight for the throne
Who will rise
Who will be overthrown
strange that this mod does not yet have its own music theme for each leader in each era, but I always explain to myself that the installer would swell even more
I wonder if it would be difficult to implement to add, for example, a 3% chance that instead of the standard horn sound when war start, the player would hear music with a style reminiscent of songs from a particular historical era
https://jumpshare.com/s/7tWuygFeUGIqSrlhSnX2
[Verse]
The soil shakes with the tread of men
Steel on steel
It begins again
The banners rise
The winds they howl
Through the ages
We take the vow
[Prechorus]
Brick by brick
The empires climb
Ashes fall with the weight of time
[Chorus]
Marching through the years
Through the fire
Through the stone
We build
We break
We bleed
We own
The march of ages
The fight for the throne
Who will rise
Who will be overthrown
[Verse 2]
Plows turn to swords in the setting sun
A thousand battles
Yet none are won
Wisdom whispers
But greed will shout
History’s circle
We can’t climb out
[Prechorus]
Crown by crown
The victors fade
Dust returns to the plans we made
[Chorus]
Marching through the years
Through the fire
Through the stone
We build
We break
We bleed
We own
The march of ages
The fight for the throne
Who will rise
Who will be overthrown
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Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
You'd need privateers or a war for that. Blockades only work on hostiles.
Not necessarily. There are several rejection types that rank higher and would be used before WHEOOH.
Answered above by @Noyyau
Yes, yes, I understand that people would like me to devote all my time and effort to separatism.
I play with music off (or rather music of my choice playing in the background). I will likely add a few more pieces for the next version since the current sorry state of the music was pointed out to me, but generally speaking I am simply not interested.
Oh, and it would greatly inflate the mod size, as music takes up a lot of space.
Ahnarras
Warlord
- Joined
- May 20, 2011
- Messages
- 248
Yes, yes, I understand that people would like me to devote all my time and effort to separatism.
Naaaaah, it's just good old discussions between friendly folks, nothing to worry about
And may I add three things from my last night's gaming session ?
1) I know it's vanilla behaviour, but isn't the current delay between 2 doctrines changes a bit too small ? Switching back and forth doctrines every 5 turns always make me a bit uneasy, would it make sense to bump it to the same delay as the trade deals (15 turns, I believe ?).
I'm speaking of a purely gameplay perspective here, I know that historically there were some nations that were changing their governement every few years ^^
2) Could it make sense to add some kind of delay to Vassal contracts, too ? AI seems to be eager to conclure/cancel them every single turn.
Not all of them, mind you, but I've got a few Civ in my game that take breaking feodal vows as an olympic sport it seems.
3) The emplaced canons were quite confusing at first, and I only understood how they works once I had one build. Their tooltip says "cannot be transported" and they have Movement 1.
It made me guess that you can't transport them on ships but that they could still moves from one city to another one. Perhaps rewording in to "Cannot be moved" or, if it's possible, making them Movement 0 would clarify it a bit more ?
Same for the way they use the logistic mecanism. I was a bit surprised to see that they create a secondary logistic line on which they are the only one. I find it a bit confusing even knowing now how it works, and also it seems to be really high. I'm currently at urban logistic 10 for urban area, and I don't see myself ever needing so much canons.
Would it makes sense to limit then in another way ? Perhaps making them a national unit whose threeshold grows with the number of Fortications built ? Making a hardcap on the number of emplaced cannons per city ?
As for music, the Renaissance ones are a real treat to my ear after so many hours with the Medieval ones, but I would love more variety ! I'm not sure modsize is a concern nowadays, at least not for anyone with a computer build for modern gaming. When you see all the 100+ GB roaming around, a few more MB of musics doesn't really scare me
At worst, perhaps it's possible to add them only on the full download of the mods and leave them out for the "light" version that already exist ?
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Maybe.
I am planning to cast a hard look at vassal AI overall (especially given Himeji in the recent update). I'll try to have them behave more logically.
I'll clarify better in-game.
Making them 0 movement would make them unable to attack. And "Cannot be transported" is separate from "Immobile". All air units are technically immobile - they cannot use their moves to move around, only to do missions - but they can be transported.
As I said, I play with music off, so I'm simply not interested.As for music, the Renaissance ones are a real treat to my ear after so many hours with the Medieval ones, but I would love more variety ! I'm not sure modsize is a concern nowadays, at least not for anyone with a computer build for modern gaming. When you see all the 100+ GB roaming around, a few more MB of musics doesn't really scare me
That's already the case for all the music.
Question about unrest. I am well into 18th century with 15 cities. My second city, 96% ethnic, has this unrest building and icon. City is far from AI land. None of my other cities got this. Running free religion. How come unrest has been there all the time and still is there?
Takofloppa
Capybara
Can you show some screenshots with the details of this particular city?
