Realism Invictus
- Thread starter Walter Hawkwood
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Viking3857
Chieftain
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- Apr 20, 2022
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I personally played on the contrary, with no experience limit on barbarians. (it is changed via xml in the game files) . I played with the rule of Aggressive barbarians, they just come in a crowd, demolish weak civilizations in a few moves. And I used them to upgrade several units up to level 100. BUT!!
Even they manage to die with a 99.89% chance!
Better explain how this happens, why does a high-level unit get killed by a peasant with a spear?!(lol)
LeanArcticWolf
Chieftain
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- Feb 9, 2022
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- 34
Walter, please keep in mind that my Egyptian Triassic game, I have legions of slaves that were instrumental in connecting my empire and improving all the tiles
And what is wrong with that
Should I really be that worried? Slavery has been so good to me
Hmmm, I've noticed that....it would mean less OP unites running around, more diverse skillset...some units you need a nuke to get rid by late game
I just load my last save
Viking3857
Chieftain
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- Apr 20, 2022
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I don't like doing this, but the problem is that it very rarely helps, I did it for the sake of experiment. With a 99.89% chance, I was constantly dying, rebooting did not affect this, in any case, death, only skipping a turn could change the event. As the saying goes, "Where there is death, there will always be death"
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Nor am I!
Not really, it's mostly personal experience working with maps - tiles often visually glitch when connecting across zero meridian. Most random map scripts deliberately try to never place land there too. And of course it's extremely annoying when using minimap around the "edge" of the map.
Yeah, broadening the scope of Sahel civ is something I gave quite a bit of thought to in the past. Fulani jihad states are also something one could roll with, and Usman Dan Fodio would be a cool Theocracy-favouring leader. Ultimately, what I don't have is unique Kanem-Bornu assets that I could use to bring additional flavour.
What I am sure of is that players would totally die from managing 50+ cities. Maybe there are some people out there who genuinely enjoy that, but I just keep screaming "Why?!?" in my head when I see a screenshot of a map where a player controls an insane number of cities.
Thanks, will check and fix. Probably originally copy-pasted a description with a typo.
I'll just give it a flood plain treatment. That's easy.
Canals really are an improvement, not a feature. They only use the feature for visuals (and for keeping the flood plain commerce intact, that +1 isn't from rivers, it's from flood plains).
I don't know! I never figured it out myself! There was a poster here a while ago with harsh but to an extent valid critique that amounted to there being no overarching design behind the Chinese civ. There is no feeling of what Chinese "do", and Canals are definitely a part of that. Revisiting them with a more holistic approach is on my to-do list.
Ultimately, anything that nerfs individual units shifts combat more to a simple "who has more units in a doomstack" test. Do people suggesting this really want that to be more of a case for combat?
Ahnarras
Warlord
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- May 20, 2011
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- 248
Isn't that why irregulars units, charge mounted, archery and later artillery units are for ? Giving you the little edge needed to hurt that super-warrior with a lot of promotions, making him vulnerable to being killed by another unit later on the same turn ?
Between sacrifizing cheap soldiers, using the "collateral damage" to my advantage, or the "first strike", or simply bombing the hell out of them before charging, I usually always have a tool to increase the odds of having of my melee units later on.
So far I only had 4 units with really high XP lvl, and I've been at war for most of my game (being now in mid-Renaissance). And that's with a bit of cheating by reloading some combat where my uber-general with 99% of winning died stupidly
So I'm not sure how enraged your opponents are for them to have so many high XP units that it becomes a real problem
Hmmm, perhaps. Specially for those barbarians that are nothing more than rebels slaves. But isn't that already taken care of by the fact that you can't go more than a certain threeshold of XP with barbarian ?
Now you are making me really wonder how weird are battlefields in the modern era. Given the current progress of Science in my game (old SVN...) I'm not even sure I will manage to see it before the game ends in a score victory.
I'm not a fan of the doomstack strategy. I much rather would see the war determined by how you position your troups, how well you manage to diversify your stack / anticipate what your opponents will field, how much you were able to adapt your promotion to the situation... Having more man should obviously grants you an advantage, but it shouldn't be the only determining factor. Otherwise "A small country can't fight a big country", as they said, and that would hurts the gameplay a lot, at least to my opinion.
... Or you have to go all in with it and adds everything else that would impacts a marching army : logistics, line of supply, real-time knowledge of the ennemy's position, terrains hardship, meteo and seasons, the impact of loosing a generation on your population... A true nightmare (and honestly, out of scope for a game where you are supposed to manage an empire for thousands of years !).
Viking3857
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2022
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- 7
My brother made 5-8 nuclear missiles each turn, as the economy allowed (as I recall, he had about 50-70 cities with a population of 10 people).
And he dropped these missiles on my cities and immediately went on a big assault with the help of new recruits, whom he received for free for the construction of the Motherland Statue, and about 60 infantry marched on my cities, but they did not reach, because I also had nuclear missiles)
Sathar
Warlord
I'm not sure what this missing texture is. Paved road on a(n Armenian Wheat) farm? It popped up right after I upgraded the road.
Attachments
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Is this persistent? If you restart BtS and load the game, is this still there? Logically there shouldn't be anything wrong there, and sometimes the game's renderer just glitches.
Alekseyev_
Prince
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- Jul 18, 2014
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I think you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. A grasslands tile next to river gives +1 commerce. A grasslands tile next to river with forest gives no +1 commerce. A desert tile gives +1 commerce, but with floodplains, had floodplains no "+1 commerce next to rivers" of its own, it would no longer. Same way, the canals prevent the "native" +1 river commerce. They come with +1 flat commerce of their own, but that is independent of rivers. So I would suggest additionally adding the "+1 commerce next to rivers" to the canal feature (like canal + floodplains has).
Ok, good to know
I can say for sure that the Chinese unique building (provincial government) is great, that early extra scientist or artist slot can be huge, and the bonuses are nice as well. And they have one of the best pagan temples in my eyes. Not sure if other civs have more of a "what do they do" feeling besides for example Rome with their castrum + legionary + ballista + slavery + latifundia early game combo.
I think canals would already benefit from the fix I suggested above, but then beyond this I assume a way to distinguish them from watermills (big hammer), cottages (big money) and farms (big food) is to slap a +1 food somewhere in the tech tree, so they provide a mix of it all. That said, I kinda like them being just flatland hammer/commerce, a bit like a vanilla workshop that doesn't exist in RI (and that I don't even like in vanilla lol), so going just a tiny bit deeper into that via one more hammer somewhere could also be nice.
That's absolutely true, and I have the same reaction. Yet at the same time I love detailed, large maps.
Now, another remark regarding the Europe map (and probably World maps, too, though I have not tested them lately). With shipyards now requiring naval supplies for construction, the lack of Hemp and Cotton sources on most of the map means that almost nobody will be able to make shipyards at all, which is a big hit to coastal civs that now have to wait all the way until armor plating for industrial shipyards to get more water food. And as for a super small remark, I think there should be gas sources in Bahrain and Algeria
I've also locally done a change regarding Protective: While the trade certainly has its upsides, it's extremely reactive and doesn't really help you with anything but some early wall happiness from autocracy/monarchy. Sadly, yields/commerce from buildings doesn't seem to be changeable via a trait, so I gave protective a lot of +1 happy to defensive buildings: Walls, Castle, Fortification, Bunker, Nuclear shelter. Combined with a production bonus for the early ones of these, it feels like the trait is now actually good in the early game. I'd still take something like Industrious, Financial or Conqueror over it, but I think that's not necessarily bad, those traits are just really good. Late game, it typically still falls off due to abundant happiness, but I suppose it could help a tiny, resource-poor empire. If possible, I'd have made it give +1 money and/or culture from some of those improvements, for a bit more variety from the classic "+1 happy from X" trait effect.
I think progressive is also somewhat underwhelming. The 5% research are absolutely dwarfed by the time libraries roll around, and financial is not only better at science but also more versatile. I think the 50% cheaper upgrading, while undoubtedly nice, don't make up for that difference. I think I'd raise it to 10%, and if possible, add +1 flat research to every research building from libraries onwards (so they keep scaling well instead of having the 10% modifier be turned insignificant due to additive bonuses).
Canals are essentially making a tile into a river tile, no? I forget exactly what canals do, but it sounds like the purpose of a canal should be to make the tile an extension of a river. So instead of getting +1 commerce from being next to a river, maybe it should give +1 commerce to tiles adjacent to the canal. And also act as a trade route connector. And probably let you build river-adjacent improvements and buildings adjacent to it (watermills, levees, etc). Though I'm sure making watermill graphics work with something that's on a tile instead of between tiles would be a nightmare to implement.
Protective is a weird trait. Attacking is better than defending, so Protective is primarily useful to losing civs, and serves to bolster AI civs that would otherwise fall in the face of stronger opponents. Trying to make it alluring for a player can result in it being too powerful for an AI civ to run. Make it balanced for an AI civ leaves it feeling lacking for a player civ (assuming the player civ is trying to win). I think it's okay as is, even if its purpose is less as a practical trait that's useful to players and is best for making weaker AI civs more resilient.
I've been trying to play Mustafa Kemal Ataturk recently and this has been my feeling as well. I think the trait would be better served as reducing tech costs by 5% than by increasing research output by 5%. Increasing research output is a pretty narrow expression and basically requires the civ to invest in raw beakers in order to get a benefit from the trait--something easier said than done. But if it reduced research by 5% (or even 3% if 5% is too much), then it frees the civ up significantly to play the game as it sees fit while making good research advances.
On the subject of traits, I've been wondering if Humanist could move from "+1 commerce per city" to "+1 commerce per era per city". So a city gets +1 commerce in ancient era, +2 in classical, +3 in medieval, etc. Or maybe instead have it get +1 or +2 commerce per city for each humanist-aligned civic active, reflecting the trait as being one that focuses on social values. Or instead of extending golden age length, it can make golden ages require fewer great people, so that you get more of them. For comparison, the seafarer trait can provide each coastal city with +10 commerce by rennaisance, with the right buildings, so humanist providing +5 per each city by that era, coastal or not, seems fair.
Alekseyev_
Prince
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- Jul 18, 2014
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- 306
They spread irrigation, so you could argue they act as a freshwater source like rivers, but the tile doesn't become nor act like a river (which are also between tiles, not on them). Constructing watermills and levees next to them seems weird, and as you say, a pain to implement. Providing the +1 river commerce to tiles further from a river sounds interesting.
I think canals all in all are pretty cool, their only problem is a yield-wise identity crisis.
I think all traits should be at least somewhat enticing to a human. They don't have to be the same power level as the very best traits, but at least feel better than having basically no trait.
If that is possible to code, that would be a perfect solution. 5% that multiplicatively work across the entire game and start having an effect immediately, not just when you have 20+ research in a city.
fast travel of units!
funny thing, i ask bot what he would add / remove to be more realistic if he had possibility and.. he suggest that this improvement should work like viking fish special improvement or persian silk city towns - after some times and techs it would grow and add new bonuses
"China's canals, especially the Grand Canal, were veins of commerce - not only a transportation route for people and troops, but a key artery for exchanging grain, silk, tea and taxes.
+1
Gold for each canal if adjacent to a city.+1
Commerce when connecting two tiles of water by a canal (e.g. river-lake).Trade bonus (Trade route yield boost) in cities connected to the sea by a canal.
It should not be forgotten China's canals have evolved from simple irrigation pits to massive inland canals.
My Proposal:
Level I canal - available after Irrigantion systems.
Level II canal - requires Mill Machinery or Mechanics, gives small bonus to trade and transportation bonuses.
Level III (Industrial) Canal - available after Steam Engine;small bonus to production; acts as a “sea tunnel” (e.g., to move small coastal-only units)
WHAT I WOULD CHANGE to avoid unrealistic elements:
1. too easy accessibility
Currently, a canal can be built virtually anywhere on flat terrain - which can lead to “canal networks” where it wouldn't make sense.
I would limit canal construction to tiles next to a river, lake or sea and areas without forests / jungles / mountains near (unless the player has the right technology) and increase time turns to build - to replicate the workload."
To be honest it doesnt sound stupid.
spam canals, choose protectionism as economy civ, close china on all outside influence.
Last edited:
Sathar
Warlord
Ah yes, the tried and true Skyrim troubleshooting method: reboot the PC and see if it goes away. Yup, some combination of restarting and updating to SVN5502 fixed it.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Fixed this one in SVN roughly two weeks ago - you must be running an older one.
Why? Fractional research is already a thing (and always was IIRC).
Your suggestion would make it additive instead of multiplicative to all the cost increases/decreases from ahead of time or tech transfer, basically drowning it out. As it is now, it's a flat +5% modifier on all your research. Not too shabby.
Updating SVN on an ongoing game? Sinner!
Alekseyev_
Prince
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- Jul 18, 2014
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- 306
I think that's only within cities, within your empire it's an integer. Hence the old tactic of 100% or 0% research to minimise losses to rounding.
I always thought tech transfer is an additive modifier to the research per turn, rather than a change to the tech cost. Either way, 5% is nothing compared to the versatile commerce output of financial (and commerce also gets multiplied by things like city squares before it then gets multiplied again by research effects like libraries). Even the subpar humanist out-researches progressive unless your cities have 20+ research on average. And once buildings come in, that necessary average goes up again.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
It's not an integer anywhere, even if the total output is displayed rounded. A quick test with the very same Ataturk:
The rounding may be true in vanilla (I'm not sure even there), but in RI you're most definitely getting as much research as you're paying for.
Spoiler A couple of big screenshots :
rather than a simple 9
Alekseyev_
Prince
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- Jul 18, 2014
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Oh that's excellent! I was under the impression I still had to do binary research to get the most out of it particularly in the early game.
Thanks for testing it!
Thanks for testing it!
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Binary research still has some advantages (too little for me to balance the hassle of doing it), but the rounding is definitely done with. I can hear the argument that 5% might be too low in absolute numbers though, but I feel 10% would be too high and everything in between would look weird.
