Realism Invictus

[Ahnarras]

Hello again ! It's bug report time, once again I'm still on the same, old SVN game, so perhaps those are already corrected, but just in case :

- One of the Slaves Rebels from Medieval Time (the S6 Levy) seems to have some trouble with spearholding. Pointy side is going backward.
It's only the guy with the spear, and, fun fact, it's only when he is in the middle of the formation. When he is on the side, he is holdwing is weapon all fine.

Spoiler :

- When trading ressources with another Civ, and he's coming back to announce that he will cancel the trade, there is an option to negociate.
Weirdly enough, while doing so, I'm sometime unable to "take out" some of the ressources on my side. Like, for exemple, I was trading Masonnerie Materials & Fish against something, I go to renegociate, I can click on Fish and it will be taken out of the deal, but clicking on Masonnery Materials does nothing and the ressource seems to be stuck in the trade window. The only way I found to correct it is to completly exit the trade and go back on the "welcome screen" of the diplomacy and launch a new trade from the start, and you can then click and unclick on the ressource to put it in/out of the deal as normal. I've attached a saved to demonstrate, just click next turn and Cyrus should pop up for trade.

- Not sure if a bug or just a weird gameplay thingy, but I found a difference of behaviour between AI vassals and my own vassals. To give an exemple, let's say that Attila is at war with Elizabeth :
If I decide to accept him as a Vassal, that will autolaunch a war between me and the english.
If Jules Cesar decide to vassalize Attila, the same won't happens. Instead, the war between Attila and Elizabeth will immediatly ends with a peace treaty.

It only seems to happens on the Civ already at war with the vassal. If me (or Cesar) is at war with another Civ, when Attila joins, he will correctly be put at war with that Civ in both case.

Until next time !

 

[[Y]]

- When trading ressources with another Civ, and he's coming back to announce that he will cancel the trade, there is an option to negociate.
Weirdly enough, while doing so, I'm sometime unable to "take out" some of the ressources on my side. Like, for exemple, I was trading Masonnerie Materials & Fish against something, I go to renegociate, I can click on Fish and it will be taken out of the deal, but clicking on Masonnery Materials does nothing and the ressource seems to be stuck in the trade window. The only way I found to correct it is to completly exit the trade and go back on the "welcome screen" of the diplomacy and launch a new trade from the start, and you can then click and unclick on the ressource to put it in/out of the deal as normal. I've attached a saved to demonstrate, just click next turn and Cyrus should pop up for trade.

That's how it's always been, I think. Since you're "negotiation" an existing deal, it's limiting you to the resources you were trading. It's a nearly useless functionality, but exiting and starting a new trade is easy enough.

- Not sure if a bug or just a weird gameplay thingy, but I found a difference of behaviour between AI vassals and my own vassals. To give an exemple, let's say that Attila is at war with Elizabeth :
If I decide to accept him as a Vassal, that will autolaunch a war between me and the english.
If Jules Cesar decide to vassalize Attila, the same won't happens. Instead, the war between Attila and Elizabeth will immediatly ends with a peace treaty.

It only seems to happens on the Civ already at war with the vassal. If me (or Cesar) is at war with another Civ, when Attila joins, he will correctly be put at war with that Civ in both case.

Are you sure it's not that Caesar is entering the war and immediately signing a peace treaty with Elizabeth? A lot can happen during the AI's turn, so could be worth checking logs to see if there's a fuller story. I'll keep an eye out in my own games too to see if I have the same behavior.

 

[Noyyau]

- When trading ressources with another Civ, and he's coming back to announce that he will cancel the trade, there is an option to negociate.
Weirdly enough, while doing so, I'm sometime unable to "take out" some of the ressources on my side. Like, for exemple, I was trading Masonnerie Materials & Fish against something, I go to renegociate, I can click on Fish and it will be taken out of the deal, but clicking on Masonnery Materials does nothing and the ressource seems to be stuck in the trade window. The only way I found to correct it is to completly exit the trade and go back on the "welcome screen" of the diplomacy and launch a new trade from the start, and you can then click and unclick on the ressource to put it in/out of the deal as normal. I've attached a saved to demonstrate, just click next turn and Cyrus should pop up for trade.

Vanilla behaviour, you should also see a "clear table" button in the lower part of the lower squares with the resources being negotiated, that, as it says, will clear the negotiation, without the need to exit the trade screen.

 

[Kathy]

In wonder, if the roman ballista works properly in game in your mod, because when I added it to my mod, it always crashed the game when I did a test and let it attack another unit.
It is a problem I had with one of my units, too, because of an error with missing nodes, which still remain in the string pallet of the attack animations.

 

[RezerCuid]

In RL, there is a setting called "Per city research cost," and it's time to upgrade it. For example, let's take 10% for each city and reduce the percentage with each new city.
2 - 10%
3 - 9%
4 - 8%
5 - 7%
6 - 6%
7 and next - 5%.

If it is 8%, then
2 - 8%
3 - 7%
4 - 6%
5 - 5%
6 and next - 4%

This is half the original amount. This is because large empires are lagging behind.

 

[Ahnarras]

Are you sure it's not that Caesar is entering the war and immediately signing a peace treaty with Elizabeth? A lot can happen during the AI's turn, so could be worth checking logs to see if there's a fuller story. I'll keep an eye out in my own games too to see if I have the same behavior.

But shouldn't he have a ~10 turns of "I don't wanna talk to you right now" from Elizabeth for declaring the war ? At least that's what I'm facing when I vassalized someone and am autoput in a war because of that.
And I don't received the pop-up saying the master and the opponent Civ even start the war, or sign a peace between them. Only that the new vassal and his former ennemy do peace.

Also I gived this exemple but the behaviour was consistent for my whole game : AI vassalize X, X was in war with Y, AI doesn't declare war at all against Y and instead X and Y go for peace immediatly.

That's how it's always been, I think. Since you're "negotiation" an existing deal, it's limiting you to the resources you were trading. It's a nearly useless functionality, but exiting and starting a new trade is easy enough.

Oki, I didn't remember seeing that before but as you and Noyyau said, it's not a big problem anyways.

This is half the original amount. This is because large empires are lagging behind.

Are you in Medieval times ? I noticed big empire lagging behind during Medieval Era, between all the wars and few opportunities to make their big empire useful.
As soon as I hit Astronomy & Banking, my 13 cities strong empire really launched and the gap is becoming bigger each turns. Same for every other big empires : the more they progress into the Renaissance tech, the faster they go, and I start to noticed how smaller empire are really starting to lag behind (and being conquerred, as the gap between Infantry of the Line and the previous medieval units is quite huge).

 

[giorgio1234]

Hi @Walter Hawkwood ,
in the attached savegame (SVN version, revision 5502), it's possible to build the national unit cho-ko-nu beyond the 6 allowed.
I don't know if there's any building or civic that allows that, but I haven't found any.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I tried a casual random map game with switchable leaders until late classical as Dravidia, and 1 turn before the middle ages I saved so I could go for the financial, humanist and progressive leader each after the tech completion. (I think it might be the only civ that has all 3 of these traits separate without a counteracting negative trait on those leaders, e.g. isolationist.) Also deliberately did not go for colossus since it'd skew the results.
I did not build for any particular strategy and at this point had basically no hamlets or villages, just casually cruising along unfocused.
None of those traits: 402 research/turn
Progressive: 414 research/turn
Financial and humanist: both 425 research/turn
(All at 100% research spending for the comparison, every other fraction favours the non-progressive results in comparison)
This definitely raised my opinion of humanist, since it works from turn 1 and outperforms progressive and can for the early game keep up with financial, but I also know that had I played for the financial trait from the start I'd have a lot more money tiles and probably more income as well.

Thanks, that's a very informative test! I will definitely consider its implications, and will probably run a couple of my own tests.

Will Himeji castle be disabled in "no vassal state" games?

Yes, obviously, as it's meaningless there.

Although, now with constitutional monarchy, there really is no point for a mid-late game autocracy at all. (I thought that the distinction between "autocracy" and "monarchy" was that already, that "autocracy" is an absolute monarchy while "monarchy" is more a constitutional monarchy.)

Well, Autocracy kind of cedes its role to Dictatorship around that time, so this is intentional.

I created my own separatist script in Python — it took me two days to get it just the way I wanted.

Good for you!

- One of the Slaves Rebels from Medieval Time (the S6 Levy) seems to have some trouble with spearholding. Pointy side is going backward.
It's only the guy with the spear, and, fun fact, it's only when he is in the middle of the formation. When he is on the side, he is holdwing is weapon all fine.

Thanks, I fixed it (and a couple of other units that behaved the same way).

- When trading ressources with another Civ, and he's coming back to announce that he will cancel the trade, there is an option to negociate.
Weirdly enough, while doing so, I'm sometime unable to "take out" some of the ressources on my side. Like, for exemple, I was trading Masonnerie Materials & Fish against something, I go to renegociate, I can click on Fish and it will be taken out of the deal, but clicking on Masonnery Materials does nothing and the ressource seems to be stuck in the trade window. The only way I found to correct it is to completly exit the trade and go back on the "welcome screen" of the diplomacy and launch a new trade from the start, and you can then click and unclick on the ressource to put it in/out of the deal as normal. I've attached a saved to demonstrate, just click next turn and Cyrus should pop up for trade.

As others pointed out, I believe it's vanilla behaviour.

- Not sure if a bug or just a weird gameplay thingy, but I found a difference of behaviour between AI vassals and my own vassals. To give an exemple, let's say that Attila is at war with Elizabeth :
If I decide to accept him as a Vassal, that will autolaunch a war between me and the english.
If Jules Cesar decide to vassalize Attila, the same won't happens. Instead, the war between Attila and Elizabeth will immediatly ends with a peace treaty.

Diplomacy is the single most asymmetrical mechanic in Civ 4 when it comes to humans vs AI, so I'm not surprised in the slightest.

In wonder, if the roman ballista works properly in game in your mod, because when I added it to my mod, it always crashed the game when I did a test and let it attack another unit.
It is a problem I had with one of my units, too, because of an error with missing nodes, which still remain in the string pallet of the attack animations.

It most certainly does in RI (and would have been reported by players long ago if it were problematic). One caveat though is that it is a purely ranged unit in RI, so it never gets to attack in the traditional Civ 4 way - so that's probably what you're getting with it.

and it's time to upgrade it

It's time for anything RI-related when I decide it's time.

in the attached savegame (SVN version, revision 5502), it's possible to build the national unit cho-ko-nu beyond the 6 allowed.
I don't know if there's any building or civic that allows that, but I haven't found any.

You wouldn't be able to build more than 6; it was queueing more than 6 that was allowed. But seeing how it was confusing for the players, I fixed it to work the same as with other limited units, where you can't queue more than you can build (I could actually see the merit of queueing more than possible to build - you could simply queue two cities to build all 6, for instance, and never worry about their relative production - they would build a total of 6 no matter how many which city did, without you having to micromanage it manually).

 

[RezerCuid]

None of those traits: 402 research/turn
Progressive: 414 research/turn
Financial and humanist: both 425 research/turn

Where did you get 400 science from, after 5 years of playing and dozens of games, I've never had more than 220 at 60-70%, at the end of the classic era.
HOW!?

 

[RezerCuid]

I created my own separatist script in Python — it took me two days to get it just the way I wanted.

Please share it

 

[globosud]

Please share it

The system is still in the testing phase. My separatism system seems to be working well and doesn’t cause any slowdowns. This system activates around the middle of the medieval era; before that, everything remains as it is now. To improve balance even further, I created two types of High Council: with 1 to 3 cities, you get specific economic, military, and technological bonuses (and more), along with a special promotion that activates for all units — a sort of 'call to arms'. From 4 to 7 cities, the previous bonuses are deactivated, a different palace with fewer bonuses becomes active, and the promotion is replaced with a lighter version. From 8 cities onward, everything returns to normal — all bonuses and boosts are lost.
The goal is to make small civilizations, even if weaker in numbers, stronger in terms of technology and economy. The Python script is fully modular, has no nested loops, and is highly optimized. Once I’ve tested it thoroughly, I’ll consider making it public.Right now, I’m working on a Python script that applies a high diplomatic penalty to players who expand too much, scaling based on their growth. This way, attacking smaller civilizations won’t always be the best choice anymore."The A.I., which now doesn’t focus solely on conquest, will be on par with those that tend to expansion.All civilizations, as they get conquered, become more focused and have strengthened defenses. Sure, they can still disappear like now, but they will put up a tough fight and can even rise again, thanks to bonuses that disappear only after the seventh city."

 

[giorgio1234]

You wouldn't be able to build more than 6; it was queueing more than 6 that was allowed. But seeing how it was confusing for the players, I fixed it to work the same as with other limited units, where you can't queue more than you can build (I could actually see the merit of queueing more than possible to build - you could simply queue two cities to build all 6, for instance, and never worry about their relative production - they would build a total of 6 no matter how many which city did, without you having to micromanage it manually).

Sorry, I have not understood.
You're right, I tried it and units can be queued beyond the allowed limit, but they can't really be built; excess ones are converted into money.
But you also said you removed this feature, but in the savegame of the previous message units can still be queued beyond the limit.
Or did I misunderstand what you said?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Sorry, I have not understood.
You're right, I tried it and units can be queued beyond the allowed limit, but they can't really be built; excess ones are converted into money.
But you also said you removed this feature, but in the savegame of the previous message units can still be queued beyond the limit.
Or did I misunderstand what you said?

I removed it in the SVN revision I uploaded this morning. I think this one is actually save-compatible to the previous one, so you can update your SVN, test it with the same save and see the difference.