Realism Invictus

[RezerCuid]

16 and 18 are hugе differences

 

[Ahnarras]

Okaaaay, thanks for the explanation !
I'm still unconvinced about the "not upgrading" part, as I don't see myself ever having the ~80-100K of gold needed to upgrade the whole army into Line Infantry. It would be much more doable to upgrade everyone into Irregulars for the time being and taking 15-20 turns to build the troups in my cities, which is probably the strategy I will follow. Too much people starting to have their own Line Infantry amongst my neighborhood, and I'm starting to feel uneasy with my knights ^^

I would also love to be able to put irregulars only in defense of my backyard cities, but the way the World Map is made, I just can't find any city that is "safe" enough. And even less now that sea transportation is reliable and I have to worry about the coast, too.

 

[Joij21]

The SVN absolutely sucks, won't download. The server it comes from keeps cutting off mid download and keeps telling me to do cleanups locking out whenever I try to resume the download. This forces me to start all over again until the SVN hiccups once again.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I'm still unconvinced about the "not upgrading" part, as I don't see myself ever having the ~80-100K of gold needed to upgrade the whole army into Line Infantry. It would be much more doable to upgrade everyone into Irregulars for the time being and taking 15-20 turns to build the troups in my cities, which is probably the strategy I will follow. Too much people starting to have their own Line Infantry amongst my neighborhood, and I'm starting to feel uneasy with my knights ^^

This specific point is something you start preparing for in advance, a single biggest upgrade in all the game likely (later you'll also be upgrading all your infantry at once most of the time, but the step up is much less steep). Having irregulars as at least a part of your total forces, especially in relatively safer cities is definitely also a viable option.

The SVN absolutely sucks, won't download. The server it comes from keeps cutting off mid download and keeps telling me to do cleanups locking out whenever I try to resume the download. This forces me to start all over again until the SVN hiccups once again.

It has its bad days from time to time, but generally works ok for me, and for most people. May be worse in countries that throttle/block parts of internet, such as Russia or China, but I don't have any specific advice if you're there (VPN generally shouldn't be helpful in that case as from what I know, it's generally done ISP-side or even before ISPs).

 

[tebriz]

Just a small typo in the Civilopedia — this is the entry for Gamal Abdel Nasser

 

[Joij21]

It has its bad days from time to time, but generally works ok for me, and for most people. May be worse in countries that throttle/block parts of internet, such as Russia or China, but I don't have any specific advice if you're there (VPN generally shouldn't be helpful in that case as from what I know, it's generally done ISP-side or even before ISPs).

It's seems like it's from Russia or China. I'm from the US btw.

But I'm probably going to just have to go back to the main release if the bandwidth issues persist.

 

[RezerCuid]

Try downloading it in parts.

 

[tebriz]

There’s a question I’ve always wanted to ask but kept hesitating — does the civilization you choose on a random map affect your starting location? I feel like when I play as Egypt or the Turks, I often start in desert or plains areas. Meanwhile, when I play as France, I usually start surrounded by forests

 

[Ahnarras]

This specific point is something you start preparing for in advance, a single biggest upgrade in all the game likely

Yeah it seems so. A lot of geopolitical changes, new wars every turn and a few of the Civ that were a bit behind or didn't have access to Sulfur are already gone (thankfully with Separatism some of them came back).
Huge lot of revolts too, and the new independant cities seems to be a pain in the ass for everyone nearby as they have rifles and the others don't.

Big step, as you said.
Random question on the side : I don't see a technology for the Bayonet. I'm no historian (and I have even less knowledge on that historical period) but from the general books/movies atmospher it always seemed that the invention of the bayonet was kinda a big deal for the first riflemen. Are the movies exagerating it's importance, or is it just a case of "already way too much stuff to put into the Tech tree for that period" ?

And another kinda random comment : I was a bit disappointed by how little gameplay there was around the whole "age of exploration" thing. Except for the Privateer, I don't really see any way to disrupt another nation trade in peacetime.
Same from the player's perspective : you have no influence on trade route and can't really do much with them, except perhaps rushing them in the Tech Tree to unlock them faster.

Would it make sense to perhaps have some kind of trade ship that could works as a great marchant and conduct trade mission ?
Or make the barbarian ships upgrade to something more dangerous, so that they could put naval blocus against player ? So far they still have Strenght 2 or 3 ships that can't go on Ocean tiles...

I had also great plans to put colonies on the New World, but I've noticed that I already had almost everything and no real need to go create new cities elsewhere (except perhaps for Coal that I'm lacking, but I have enough other ressources to always have someone to trade it so far). Having the New World having the exact same ressources as the Old World (except for Tobacco and Corn) was surprising, I believed the New World would be full of new ressources to loot

Edit to add that it may be a World Map problem once again : perhaps on a smaller map the fight for ressources and land is bigger ? Here it's hard for 3 privateer to amount to anything due to the scale of the world, and as I said the Old World as access to 90%+ of ressources so few reasons to go out of the way colonizing new continents.

does the civilization you choose on a random map affect your starting location?

Yeah I think so. It's not a 100% certain thing, but I think your odds of spawning near valuable biomes for your Civ is somewhat increase.

 

[AspiringScholar]

I didn't realize that there was another update since yesterday, so this pertains to SVN 5506, but it seems that the Deluge scenario may be broken, as it was stuck on "Setup Map" indefinitely when I tried to play it this evening.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

There’s a question I’ve always wanted to ask but kept hesitating — does the civilization you choose on a random map affect your starting location? I feel like when I play as Egypt or the Turks, I often start in desert or plains areas. Meanwhile, when I play as France, I usually start surrounded by forests

Short answer: no.

Long answer: I wish it did, but the map generation logic makes it extremely hard to implement while keeping any semblance of balance.

And another kinda random comment : I was a bit disappointed by how little gameplay there was around the whole "age of exploration" thing. Except for the Privateer, I don't really see any way to disrupt another nation trade in peacetime.
Same from the player's perspective : you have no influence on trade route and can't really do much with them, except perhaps rushing them in the Tech Tree to unlock them faster.

The way you're looking for is called "Protectionism". Other than that, yes, since trade routes are by the game's design automated, there isn't much you can do with them.

Would it make sense to perhaps have some kind of trade ship that could works as a great marchant and conduct trade mission ?
Or make the barbarian ships upgrade to something more dangerous, so that they could put naval blocus against player ? So far they still have Strenght 2 or 3 ships that can't go on Ocean tiles...

Barbarian ships already do, but maybe I need to fine-tune again the time at which they do.

I had also great plans to put colonies on the New World, but I've noticed that I already had almost everything and no real need to go create new cities elsewhere (except perhaps for Coal that I'm lacking, but I have enough other ressources to always have someone to trade it so far). Having the New World having the exact same ressources as the Old World (except for Tobacco and Corn) was surprising, I believed the New World would be full of new ressources to loot

Potatoes too! But on a more general note, no, it would be weird for me to design around New World being essential in a mod where most games don't even have one. You will need every resource you can get later on though, when your cities keep growing. But that aside, even historically speaking, while New World turbocharged Portugal and Spain, for everyone else, it was kind of just there. England and France reaped some benefits, but would have stayed major powers even if it just disappeared overnight.

Edit to add that it may be a World Map problem once again : perhaps on a smaller map the fight for ressources and land is bigger ? Here it's hard for 3 privateer to amount to anything due to the scale of the world, and as I said the Old World as access to 90%+ of ressources so few reasons to go out of the way colonizing new continents.

Yes, it most definitely is.

I didn't realize that there was another update since yesterday, so this pertains to SVN 5506, but it seems that the Deluge scenario may be broken, as it was stuck on "Setup Map" indefinitely when I tried to play it this evening.

Thanks, pushed a hotfix out for that one. Also made me realize I need to add feudal families to scenario-specific civs and pre-place them in that scenario, as logically they should all already be present. But that is for later.

 

[Ahnarras]

The way you're looking for is called "Protectionism".

Yeah I unlocked that doctrine but it didn't seemed very good, at least for my current empire. I'm earning more gold from foreign trade route than I would with protectionnism (If I understand the math right ^^). Perhaps it would even out with the other buff this doctrine gives, but currently I'm building a shitload of Line Infantry and I'm needing every hammer I can find.

Barbarian ships already do, but maybe I need to fine-tune again the time at which they do.

I'm a little bit after the year 1700, so they weren't a problem for the last thousand years, as even war galley were already crushing them.
Now they are just a pain for a few kingdoms with naval ressources but no navy.

Potatoes too!

Right, forgot about my Incan fries

it would be weird for me to design around New World being essential in a mod where most games don't even have one.

Is it ? As far as I remember Vanilla Civ IV, the map generation always seemed to distribute ressources between continents (and New World wasn't even an option at that point).
Like, one continent would have a lot of corn but no wheat, the other one a lot of wheat but no corn, ect...
Is it more balanced on RI random map generations ?

You will need every resource you can get later on though, when your cities keep growing.

I'm curious to see that ! So far I'm not even bothering checking on hapiness/health anymore, as every city have at least a gap of 10 or so between what they have and what they need.
And growth is almost no-existant nowaday as I'm mostly on desertic tiles and have very few farms. I think my biggest cities are 16-18 but most of my empire is stuck around 10 population at most.
I can't even research the new mecanized farm as this tech void the hanging gardens wonders and I will loose more from the -2 food on aqueduc that I would earn on the farm (but that's also due to the fact that I have almost exclusively Khemet farm).

But that aside, even historically speaking, while New World turbocharged Portugal and Spain, for everyone else, it was kind of just there. England and France reaped some benefits, but would have stayed major powers even if it just disappeared overnight.

That makes a lot of sense. I guess I'm a bit as France, being big enough that I already have everything I want ressources-wise on my homeland and with no true reason to colonize New World except for taking more lands (which will be hard to maintain and to defend, so I'm settling for free space closer to Egypt).

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Yeah I unlocked that doctrine but it didn't seemed very good, at least for my current empire. I'm earning more gold from foreign trade route than I would with protectionnism (If I understand the math right ^^). Perhaps it would even out with the other buff this doctrine gives, but currently I'm building a shitload of Line Infantry and I'm needing every hammer I can find.

But that's the point! The point is you're NOT trading with others and therefore they're not getting that juicy trade route commerce from you. Whether it's a net positive for you is subject to specific circumstances, but it's definitely a net negative for the world. Also, you get more/stronger privateers, which is exactly what you wanted.

Is it ? As far as I remember Vanilla Civ IV, the map generation always seemed to distribute ressources between continents (and New World wasn't even an option at that point).
Like, one continent would have a lot of corn but no wheat, the other one a lot of wheat but no corn, ect...
Is it more balanced on RI random map generations ?

I mean, you just described basically the same thing you got in the scenario: a couple of health resources, a couple of luxury resources.

I'm curious to see that ! So far I'm not even bothering checking on hapiness/health anymore, as every city have at least a gap of 10 or so between what they have and what they need.
And growth is almost no-existant nowaday as I'm mostly on desertic tiles and have very few farms. I think my biggest cities are 16-18 but most of my empire is stuck around 10 population at most.
I can't even research the new mecanized farm as this tech void the hanging gardens wonders and I will loose more from the -2 food on aqueduc that I would earn on the farm (but that's also due to the fact that I have almost exclusively Khemet farm).

The populations you're citing are very low for the era you're in. Are you at least running serfdom?

 

[RezerCuid]

My small mod The Huns and Derivative Civilizations are now equal to the game civilizations, and you can now play for them on a random map (including AI)

The Huns now have negative trait "Barbaric" not "Semi-Civilized"

Just paste the file into the Realism Invictus folder in version 3.72 or into the Realism folder in SVN

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Random question on the side : I don't see a technology for the Bayonet. I'm no historian (and I have even less knowledge on that historical period) but from the general books/movies atmospher it always seemed that the invention of the bayonet was kinda a big deal for the first riflemen. Are the movies exagerating it's importance, or is it just a case of "already way too much stuff to put into the Tech tree for that period" ?

I realised I forgot to answer this one. The bayonet is implied to be one of the major advances enabling line infantry as a unit type. I even went out of my way to depict all line infantry as having guns with bayonets. As with many other techs, in the case of Flintlock, the name of the tech is indicative of one advancement that, in reality, occurred roughly contemporaneously with several others, enabling something new. It wouldn't be too laconic to call the tech "Flintlock and Bayonet and Infantry Drills and Line Formations and Weapon Pattern Standardisation (and a need to counter Gustavian cavalry shock tactics)"

 

[RezerCuid]

It would have been better to use a sword instead of a bayonet in the 18th and 19th centuries.

 

[Ahnarras]

But that's the point! The point is you're NOT trading with others and therefore they're not getting that juicy trade route commerce from you.

My last two remaining braincells didn't realized that by making me out of the trade routes pool, it could affect the other Civilizations too.
Not sure it would have a real effect on the Huge World Map as there are so many cities to trade with, but yeah I get your point now

(I'm leaving the Privateer for my next game as my turns are long enough without adding the "Where could I go wreak some havoc" question on top of all the other things I have to manage )

I mean, you just described basically the same thing you got in the scenario: a couple of health resources, a couple of luxury resources.

Not really, the fact that you can access Europe + Africa + Asia while traveling on foot means that all the ressources are available really early.
It's not like China was separated from the mainland by an ocean and Spices/Silk would be unavailable until Navigation.

The populations you're citing are very low for the era you're in. Are you at least running serfdom?

Nope, it didn't seemed to be worth it as my cities usually have a good third of their tiles being desert, another third being coast/hills, and only a few tiles being flatland. And on those, I'm already building towns.
I only have a few farms, which are almost ever Khemet Farm and not standard farms, so Serfdom wasn't really alluring.

I've only started growing again once in Renaissance, with the naval building making coast grants 3 and the technology that makes the windmill do the same.
That made those tiles self-suffisant and I was able to keep growing a bit, but now it's starting to stop again as I'm running out of those tiles.

I mean, I guess I could erase all my towns and put farms on every flatlands, but would it be worth it ?
Even with Serfdom, which is a +1 if I'm not mistaking, my plains farms would only grants 5 foods, so I would have to run Monasticism to have a Farm produces enough to feed two people.
Now let's say I put that guy in a Merchand position, he will gives +3 (or +4 with a Bank).

A town with Free Commoners grants +6 and a on top of that thanks to the Guild Hall. And I don't have to take Monasticism, making me able to produces troups with Militancy for the bonus XP (specially good for my naval units before I unlocked the dry dock).
I'm not taking the Great People into account I will admit, perhaps this is where my strategy is lacking. But so far my cities are top population world-wide, at least for what I have discovered.

It wouldn't be too laconic to call the tech "Flintlock and Bayonet and Infantry Drills and Line Formations and Weapon Pattern Standardisation (and a need to counter Gustavian cavalry shock tactics)"

Perfect name !

But perhaps it's a cultural thing : in my langage I never encountered the word for "Flintlock" and had to look at Wikipedia to understand what it was even after I translated it.
Whereas "Bayonet" is something I would often hear in movies, so I was more familiar with that word. Not that I mind it, I'm always happy to learn new things with your mod.

A few days ago I was supposed to spend a few turns on progressing in my game... and ended up reading the Civlopedia then Wikipedia for more than an hour instead of playing. A real rabbit hole !

 

[Joij21]

Try downloading it in parts.

I've tried but it locks me out when I try to resume, says I have to do a cleanup command. There's like no GUI for it in SVN, so I looked it up and it's something you do via command prompt from the terminal. But I like really don't like messing with the terminal for stuff if I really don't have to, so I usually try to start the whole download over from scratch to no avail.

 

[giorgio1234]

Hi @Walter Hawkwood,
is it correct that there are two Korean civilizations (with different leaders) in the game, one original and one born through a revolution (SVN revision 5504)?
I can attach the savegame, if it's helpful.

 

[AspiringScholar]

Thanks, pushed a hotfix out for that one. Also made me realize I need to add feudal families to scenario-specific civs and pre-place them in that scenario, as logically they should all already be present. But that is for later.

Unfortunately, this did not work for me, and I was still stuck indefinitely at "Setup Map" - I can provide more specifics as necessary, if you weren't able to recreate the failure locally on your end.