Rebalancing pre BNW civs

[copperred]

I'm wondering about something after starting a game as Byzantium: shouldn't a civ with a strong bent towards religion be, well better at the religion game? The UA is good but the two UUs are pretty useless for me if I want to get a religion. The fact that you can now start Piety at Turn 1 is a total releveler for Byzantium, so that extra belief ends up being one of the whatever happens to be left over . Any advice?

It feels much harder to get culture since most buildings now only produce +1 culture instead of increasing (ditto happiness, it's murder on expansion!) I know they've rebalanced France with the UI (haven't played it yet) but any idea how to work with this expanded dynamic in BNW? I can go without a religion and just get someone else's but the better ones aren't easy to import.

 

[bonafide11]

Unfortunately, all civs that peak pre-Medeival / Renaissance era seem to have been nerfed by this expansion. Byzantium's UA faces the same problem as before though: great if you can found a religion, worthless if you can't. But where they took the biggest hit is where many classical empires got hit: early UUs are pretty much worthless because early conquests isn't beneficial enough.

I'd love for them to rebalance pre-BNW civs, but I think there are many that need it more than Byzantium. America, Germany, and Japan are the most important ones since they theoretically all benefit from the new late game BNW game mechanics, yet they don't and are now just very dull.... Losing out to the likes of Brazil as far as late game powerhouses.

 

[UnofficialJoe]

I feel there's very little balance with the civs it's more about trying to work with what you got, I just like to see more interesting UA's in the game as it adds a bit of variety. Right now I feel the Aztec's UA being the exact same as the adopting honour policy tree bonus is pretty boring.

 

[evilcat]

Imho Byzantine is little UP. It is general rule that if civ have 2UU it gonna end bad for it.
It would be nice civ fallow rule if you have 2UU then have more UA. As long as your 1st UA isnt something like Poland/Maya.

As for nowadays Byzantine. The UA is very versalite and have potencial, exept you cant do anything really impressive with it, and nothing Byzantine have helps in activating UA. And Piety tree is not really good in granting religion, and is inferior as whole.
Dromons are actually nice, since its kind of composite bowman which moves over sea.
kataphrack is like swordsman using horses, with lame promotions, and upgrading to knights... oh wait, this not sound cool. But slower horseman is cool!

It would generally help if Piety tree was a little better.

And if classic era wars wasnt prohibited.

 

[BeakersGoMeep]

I have been trying to play Byzantine lately and can't find a significant use for the UU. Cataphract being mounted is a total turn off (i seriously hate how they treat mounted units) but are also really early which does not coincide with using religion to help fight wars. By the time the enemy is converted to my religion cataphracts are outteched.

Droman are cool being ranged and all but do they suffer the penalties of being ranged like low defense from melee? If droman could be accompanied by tirime that'd be nice.

As for piety, yeah its not that good imo, i'm thinking the opener should be 1/2 production for shrines, and shrines provide +1 culture. to make up for the heavy early game loss of culture and still be less good than liberty opener for culture gain.

 

[FrostK]

I also think that Byzantium is UP. Well it was UP in GnK also. However, if u will focus in religion, u will found it. For sure. The reason is that for most of civs focusing religion is not the best way.

I think in general Byzantium should play wide and get 2 faith buildings or even 3. Than culture and hapiness is no longer a great problem.

 

[Zigzagzigal]

Right now I feel the Aztec's UA being the exact same as the adopting honour policy tree bonus is pretty boring.

It's not exactly the same, the Honour opener only works on Barbarians. Still, it's true it's boring. In BNW, it's not like it helps you towards cultural victory any more.

Now, as for Byzantium, it's a shame they don't have an early faith-boosting UB (like a Shrine with lots of faith or something.) At least taking three faith buildings and Sacred Sites gives you a pretty effective victory route which wasn't there in G&K.

Siam's another Civ that probably needs changing. It used to be a clear cultural Civ, but thanks to the fact tourism rather than culture wins you the game, they're a lot less effective than they used to be.

Songhai's even worse off. Thanks to rising tech costs, puppet empires are harder to keep and letting them all build Mud Pyramid Mosques for culture isn't the powerful strategy it used to be.

The solution to the problem with early warmongering is to make AI a bit more willing to forgive (especially when you haven't gone to war since for a long time or if they're at war themselves and need all the help they can get) and it'd also help if the Honour tree could do with some kind of per-turn gold boost (such as a lower maintenance cost for military buildings.)

Later on, maybe embargoes in the World Congress should require more than just a simple majority - giving people the choice of whether to risk the vote or go for a safer one on a different matter rather than just spamming embargoes if enough City-States are on their side. True, I like the fact that neglecting culture, war, science or diplomacy has consequences, but it shouldn't be too easy for one Civ to turn the game upside down.

 

[bonafide11]

It's not exactly the same, the Honour opener only works on Barbarians. Still, it's true it's boring. In BNW, it's not like it helps you towards cultural victory any more.

Now, as for Byzantium, it's a shame they don't have an early faith-boosting UB (like a Shrine with lots of faith or something.) At least taking three faith buildings and Sacred Sites gives you a pretty effective victory route which wasn't there in G&K.

Siam's another Civ that probably needs changing. It used to be a clear cultural Civ, but thanks to the fact tourism rather than culture wins you the game, they're a lot less effective than they used to be.

Songhai's even worse off. Thanks to rising tech costs, puppet empires are harder to keep and letting them all build Mud Pyramid Mosques for culture isn't the powerful strategy it used to be.

The solution to the problem with early warmongering is to make AI a bit more willing to forgive (especially when you haven't gone to war since for a long time or if they're at war themselves and need all the help they can get) and it'd also help if the Honour tree could do with some kind of per-turn gold boost (such as a lower maintenance cost for military buildings.)

Later on, maybe embargoes in the World Congress should require more than just a simple majority - giving people the choice of whether to risk the vote or go for a safer one on a different matter rather than just spamming embargoes if enough City-States are on their side. True, I like the fact that neglecting culture, war, science or diplomacy has consequences, but it shouldn't be too easy for one Civ to turn the game upside down.

Yeah, Songhai used to be one of my favorite civs when the game first came out, but now they're pretty much worthless. Conquering and puppeting cities early in the game is just not a viable strategy anymore, and that's what they are based on.