REBELS in Civ 5

[Slave of CIV]

I would like to see (there's the error, i cant make it happen ) rebellions in CIV 5, like in the revolution MOD for CIV 4. Depending on the happiness of youre people, rebellions will occure in occupied territory.
*happy* = stable, but possible
*unhappy* = will occure, with about 30 - 40% chance
*very unhappy* = just a matter in a couple of turns..

If rebels appear, you should act quickly. Rebels will try to destroy youre roads first, to unlink the city from youre empire and to slower youre advancing armies. There is a slight chance, the former owner of this land will join forces with the rebel against you .. at least he/she will demand of you to accept the "demand of the people" to unite with their country again. New rebels will appear after a certain time, if youre not able to kill the every one of them. There is a slight chance, even a great general appears.

When the city is captured by the rebels, it will become a part of the former empire. This will have a lot of consequences..

- Rebel moral will get a 10% boost for their fighting ability
- A great general will appear
- Other occupied areas of youre nation will try the same and form rebel armies against you
- Other KI opponents will use youre weakness to declare war on you

You can avoid a nationwide revolution to hand over the city peacefully. Anyway it will be noticed as sign for youre weakness, and the "liberated" civilization will not show you gratitude for handing back territory which rightfully belongs to them.

One more thing: rebels will have a drill I promotion from the beginning

So.. what's youre ideas on that?

 

[anandus]

There already are rebellions in Civ5, but you need to get your unhappiness quite high, I think.

 

[Hustapha Thool]

negative 20 happiness for a bit will do it, I often see this if I am just doing a rapid conquer the world style of gameplay. Damn the torpedoes!

 

[shaglio]

This sort of reminds me of Civ 2. For those who never played it, when you captured an enemy city, rebel Guerillas would appear around it and try to recapture it. So you not only needed a strong enough force to take over the city, but to defend it afterwards as well. I can’t remember if this was part of vanilla Civ 2 or one of the expansions.

 

[Fabiano79]

This sort of reminds me of Civ 2. For those who never played it, when you captured an enemy city, rebel Guerillas would appear around it and try to recapture it. So you not only needed a strong enough force to take over the city, but to defend it afterwards as well. I can’t remember if this was part of vanilla Civ 2 or one of the expansions.

It was civ 2 vanilla.

Call to Power 2 had this revolution feature. When you had too much unhappiness, your empire could split on 2..starting a new civ (with another leader and colors). Also, it could be used as weapon on times of war. You could take the enemies resources and see his civilization suffer with civil wars.

 

[anandus]

It was civ 2 vanilla.

Call to Power 2 had this revolution feature. When you had too much unhappiness, your empire could split on 2..startint a new civ (with another leader and colors). Also, it could be used as weapon on times of war. You could take the enemies resources and see his civilization suffer with civil wars.

Yeah, Revolution for Civ 4 also had this feature (as the topicstarter also said).
Nothing to shake up the world order like a civil war

 

[Slave of CIV]

yeah, i had those CIV2 rebels on my mind as well

 

[kuldiin]

Barbarian uprisings would be something! Please dump 20+ troops outside my borders

 

[Truthy]

I thought not being able to expand was a bad enough punishment for an unhappy empire.

 

[awesome]

maybe this could be a random event type of deal

 

[cavilier210]

I keep expanding w/ high unhappiness, until I touch all my neighbors. Then the citizens pipe down, lol.... OR ELSE

 

[glider1]

Good ideas and I'll try to follow this thread considering that Jdog5000 and myself as well as Phungus420 and Afforess are probably the most familiar people with the Revolution engine that is in RevolutionDCM for Civ4.

Jdog5000 is the primary developer of RevolutionDCM and he likes Civ5 a lot as well as being a member of the Frankenstein team for Civ5. Don't go privately emailing him, but instead post your ideas here for everyone to get involved in.

Cheers

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions.

 

[Slave of CIV]

Good ideas and I'll try to follow this thread considering that Jdog5000 and myself as well as Phungus420 and Afforess are probably the most familiar people with the Revolution engine that is in RevolutionDCM for Civ4.

Jdog5000 is the primary developer of RevolutionDCM and he likes Civ5 a lot as well as being a member of the Frankenstein team for Civ5. Don't go privately emailing him, but instead post your ideas here for everyone to get involved in.

Cheers

Like the sound of that! As you may noticed, those ideas are based on the RevolutionDCM for Civ4. Love to see the good, old revolutionary days back again!

 

[Camikaze]

I like the sound of this. Do you think it could be extended in some capacity to other sorts of civil strife (not just in occupied territory)? I think that would certainly be a mechanic worth having.

 

[glider1]

Yeah it's early days and I'm sure Jdog5000 is thinking about how to build a revolutions mod for Civ5 as he plays it. I'm thinking the beginnings of the revolutions mod starting out as having a base mechanism of storing a count of three classes in each city, a lower, middle and upper. Global happiness changes affects each class differently. The reason that I'd start out with these social classes is that it would also be the basis of a more interesting economic model if other people wanted to take the basic mechanic and work on the economics rather than the civil order side. I've heard other people talking about economic ideas tied into a three tiered class structure. With that basic class structure coded in, you could initially start out with no base change to the game play at all and then work it from there.

There are many many questions. First question that comes to mind for me, is whether there is enough content in Civ5 as it is to work on a civil disorder mechanism. Without religions it comes down to secular disorder, but is there enough in Civ5 to make something interesting and fun out of it?

The beauty of the Revolutions mod was it's simplicity and depth. That would be the goal for Civ5 as well. Civ5 has really surprised me in it's overall quality, just that it needs espionage, religion and revolutions to be added in as simply and elegantly as other aspects of civ5 like the social policy idea. There is even some ground for hope that the tactical AI can be improved somewhat.

Keep the ideas coming. Eventually something will crystalise if it hasn't happened already in Jdog5000's mind. It is sooooo much easier to code if we get the ideas right BEFORE the coding. The experience from Civ4 is absolutely invaluable.

Cheers

 

[glider1]

Might as well add more ideas that spring up. Personally I think the distance penalty that was in RevolutionDCM could do with a rethink. Rather than the distance penalty being assured, and then gradually decreasing with improvements in technology, I'd prefer a situational distance penalty. In other words you can plonk a settlement as far away from the capital as you like, however by doing so, that settlement has more minimum standards that need to be met in order for it to remain loyal to the empire. So the distance penalty is not a number, but a quantity of minimum standards that assure stability.

The reason I say that is that the distance penalty is kinda paradoxical to me. It both has had a history of increased revolt against the empire, but in other situations the distant settlement sometimes becomes hyper-loyal to the empire because of it's isolation.

Cheers

 

[BobDole]

maybe this could be a random event type of deal

I think it'd be better to have it tied to unhappiness or something else. Randomly having a city in your empire flip out for no reason wouldn't really be entertaining.

I like the idea itself though as proposed by the OP, as well as the pictures showing how it'd be implemented. The rebel system right now is OK, but obviously, this is a lot better and more thought out. And it'd promote more diplomatic interactions and tensions between civs (always good). Cool idea.

 

[Camikaze]

Might as well add more ideas that spring up. Personally I think the distance penalty that was in RevolutionDCM could do with a rethink. Rather than the distance penalty being assured, and then gradually decreasing with improvements in technology, I'd prefer a situational distance penalty. In other words you can plonk a settlement as far away from the capital as you like, however by doing so, that settlement has more minimum standards that need to be met in order for it to remain loyal to the empire. So the distance penalty is not a number, but a quantity of minimum standards that assure stability.

The reason I say that is that the distance penalty is kinda paradoxical to me. It both has had a history of increased revolt against the empire, but in other situations the distant settlement sometimes becomes hyper-loyal to the empire because of it's isolation.

Cheers

Not sure how RevolutionDCM dealt with this, but a linearly graduating distance penalty would essentially have the same effect, assuming it was not the only factor, I think. If revolution is being somehow tied to happiness, then distance can just become one of the variables in the equation. This means that it does have more impact if your city is further away, but that there are other factors involved (which is essentially the same as having an increasing number of minimum requirements).

 

[headcase]

Maybe make a corruption meter in each city in the vein of great people meters. Global unhappiness, population, and distance from capital all play a factor in increasing it. Garrisons decrease it depending on the power of the unit, and happiness buildings too (NB: global happiness does not affect the corruption meter, only global unhappiness). Puppets get a little more, and occupied cities without courthouses get a lot more.

The unit is semi-random with slightly lesser tech than you have available, OR the civs you are at war with have available, whichever civ is most literate.