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Recovering from Last Place after Expansion Phase, Step by Step

Discussion in 'Civ3 Strategy Articles' started by zerksees, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Feb 19, 2003
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    Taking some time to analyze the situation really helped you get out of it - nice job! Sometimes shutting off the game, putting it down for a little while and then just thinking about it helps me become more objective about my position, and what I have to do to correct it.

    I expect you will be better next game too.

    I know all the articles about wonder fixation, but awful diplomacy is a bigger mistake IMO. And I see many people commit diplomacy mistakes and say the AI is "out to get them".

    Thanks for your comments.
  2. Sneakysnaga

    Sneakysnaga Chieftain

    Jul 23, 2004
    Don't worry, I'm WAY better already.:p This game was ancient history, but for some reason that made it more fun to resurrect.

    In this particular game, the bad diplomacy made the position look worse than it should have been, but that was more recoverable. The AI are relatively easy to manipulate once you know how they 'think' (ie they don't think, so if you think you win!). The weakness of the military and especially the lack of cities which resulted from trying to build every wonder going is harder to rectify. The result was stack of Persian knights about 30 strong approaching a city defending with a couple of spearmen, with 300 shields banked towards a wonder. It hurt to have to write them off, but there was nothing I could do about it. Ouch!:D
  3. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Feb 19, 2003
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    KarstenL – I will try to address your questions.

    Perhaps I am confusing reputation and attitude. I know the AI attitude towards you will change if this happens. I am less sure how it affects your reputation. I learned a ton about attitude from Bamspeedy’s article on AI attitude: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=44999&page=1

    It is true that if you kill off an AI before they meet any others the others will not know of your conquests, nor any mistreatment you used against that AI. That is simply because the others did not meet that AI.

    Yes it will be seen as a broken deal IMO. Sorry that’s just how the game works.

    Yes it will be seen as a broken deal IMO. Again this is how the game works.

    If you are the recipient of a deal (like the tribute you mention), I don’t know if the attitude towards you will change. Maybe someone else knows.
  4. JJansen

    JJansen Empire State Armada

    Sep 1, 2003
    Here it is 12 November, and I'm just now reading this.

    First, Zerksees, if you're reading this, hell of a job.

    Second, seeing this start (I, a mac, have only vanilla, so i can't BE this start), I found myself wondering why I was finding such allure in such a tiny little nation as Japan. I figured it out - when you start this save up, the situation you're in is two things:

    1. not your fault.
    2. only capable of getting better (or worse, but that ends reeeeal quick)

    When you start up a new game, and you're a Deity-level player, you go in expecting to use every AI failing to your advantage.

    When you're a Monarch-level player like me, on the other hand, you go in thinking "Okay, THIS time I won't build wonders until the Modern era!" and then proceed to get sacked by the Aztecs.

    This thesis has put the whole game into perspective for me. In it, you start with a civ on a singular mission: claw up, survive. This whole document gave me a brand new look on the game as a whole, and why newbs fail—in a new game your mission is perceived as 'win,' as opposed to this, which is 'survive to 2050ce.'

    I digress.

    I'm wondering why you didn't employ the 'Banker' exploit in this game. Seeing you buying techs outright with GPT made me furious to be frank.

    In all my games (and no, it's not why i'm a Monarch, i just can't stomach it when i screw up the expansion phase and miss the balance of culture v military on the borders), I savor GPT, hoarding it, and playing, well, like a World Bank as soon as I can, when the other civs start making a surplus GPT that my expansionist self can trade gold on hand (earned by selling techs and maps) for. Seeing you spend it on MAPS, oh, that made my blood boil—all that money lost in the conversion…

    When I do get past the medieval stage, I end up easily the richest Civ every time, even though my tax is at 0 and science is at 100, because i'm making 700-1500gpt on loans of gold.

    So, Zerksees, my question is: What's wrong with being a Banker??
  5. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Feb 19, 2003
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    I would say there is nothing wrong with being a banker. At the time I played this game I was not really aware of the banker strategy. To see if it would work you could try recreating a similar scenario and play that strategy. In 600 AD Japan had 10 cites and the leading AIs had about 25 each, had few resources and was an age or more behind in tech.

    Regarding maps, I am curious to know how else I would acquire the maps? I had almost nothing to trade. All of the AI already knew each and presumably had each other's maps. I like to trade maps and profit, but in order to benefit you have to be the explorer - meeting other AI's first and trading maps. I think it was too late for that in this game, and I think it was important to have the map, so I acquired it.

    Regarding techs, buying techs is common practice to maintain tech parity on harder difficulty levels. I think it is way cheaper than building them yourself. Being so far behind in tech, reaching tech parity or a tech lead was not going to happen until late, if ever, in this game IMO. So I chose what I thought was the path of least resistance.

    Keep in mind that there is almost always more than one way to beat this game - this is why I like Civilization! The strategies I chose worked, though there are probably more efficient ways to do it.

    Thanks for your comments.

    If you are "easily the richest civ every time", maybe you should move up a level.
  6. Vegasgustan

    Vegasgustan Chieftain

    Sep 3, 2004
    Lost Wages, Nevada
    Zerksees, great post and victory. The following comment is not meant as a bash. Is your life so consummed with Civ that it allowed you not only the time to play that game, but also the time to write all those posts about said game? If I tried that, I would be divorced quicker than I could blink. Just curious. Again...NOT A BASH.
  7. Tubby Rower

    Tubby Rower Chronic Slacker

    Nov 15, 2004
    Middle of Virginia Hair: None

    I've printed out (something like 44 pages) the amazing turn-around that you implemented in this game. I've been reading it in "my office" once a day. I have to say that your write up has helped me in my games. I empathize with Vegasgustan in that I struggle to get a couple hours of playing in every couple of days. (I have a 15-month old daughter & a wife that don't understand the need to rule the world!! :crazyeye: )

    Anyway, I thank you for your efforts and love my daily trips to the stall, I mean office, to continue reading this article.

  8. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

    Feb 21, 2004
    Boston, Mass
    I think that you'll find that most of us here are like that. ;)
  9. Vegasgustan

    Vegasgustan Chieftain

    Sep 3, 2004
    Lost Wages, Nevada
    I think we should form a group, that way we could say we are going to meetings to help us lose our addiction and then at said group we would just play Civ for a couple of hours. I think the plan is brilliant. Who is with me?! :rockon:
  10. Vegasgustan

    Vegasgustan Chieftain

    Sep 3, 2004
    Lost Wages, Nevada
    Crazy, just crazy. I wish I could be that way. :worship:
  11. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Feb 19, 2003
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    Vegasgustan and Casey -

    I am married with two kids myself - they are now 6 and 4. I would say that chronic sleep deprivation is how I played so much Civ. Get the kids to sleep by 8-8:30, start civ at 9:30 and play til 12:30 every night. Take notes. Then go back and commit the notes to a document. Some of the composition was done on the lunch hour. (I did not bring the Civ game itself to work - I need my job.)

    Cut back on the social commitments. With a little kid, it is smart to keep them away from people. Tell your friends or relatives 'we can't visit, because junior is getting over a cold' or 'can't stay long because junior is on his/her routine, and we don't want to mess it up.' Convince your wife/husband this is good. Use the time gained on the weekend to take care of the honey-do's so you can play Civ at night. Believe me you can find a way - get it in now before the kid needs to be carted around to ballet or soccer or tee-ball.

    Don't let Dr. Phil tell you that you cannot be a good spouse/parent and not play Civ.

    Where I messed up is I failed to convince my wife that Civ was good for kids. Oh they know how to play (one is a boy and the other a girl) but the wife worries about the violence. I should have turned off the animation sooner.

    These days I do not spend as much time playing. I had 5 PBEMs going for a while, but in the last month 3 of them ended. Now it is down to two and I am not starting any more for a while. I have not played a single player game in at least a couple months. I think I can control the addiction. :twitch:

    Once these two PBEMs end I will take a break from Civ for a while - I have other hobbies waiting.

    If you don't have kids yet, then you have to work out some kind of arrangement where you can play Civ and keep the wife happy too. I just gave up almost my entire social life away from the marriage. No Monday night football with the guys, concerts, movies, racquetball, basketball, fishing, bar hopping - none of that stuff. I traded that in for Civ. The funny thing is that it probably saved me hundreds of dollars.

    She should actually like it better because you are home and she knows where you are, and it saves money! Of course you still do some social things with the wife, just not on your own. And if you can't make the sacrifices then you know the other things :eek: must be more important than Civ!
  12. Tboy

    Tboy Future world ruler

    Aug 5, 2004
    At my Computer, somewhere in the UK
    Whoa, this is awesome. How long did it take you to type this? I am not worthy of your awesome Civ3 skill. :worship: :worship: :worship:
  13. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Feb 19, 2003
    Wadsworth Ohio USA

    I can't really remember how long it took to write up - it has been too long now. Before the typing, I took about 12 pages of notes, then created a draft, had a few edit sessions, added pictures, then posted. My best guess is not less than eight hours after the note taking.

    I am honored that it made it to the war academy.
  14. Penitent

    Penitent Pacifist Warmonger

    May 7, 2005
    I just read through the entire thread, it had me captivated, well played and written (of course you already know that ;) )

    I'm a noob at Civ3 and you made me realise my cardinal error of quitting too early, I've got about 5-6 saved games near the end of the medieval era where I've decided I can't win, but now I see I might be able to.

    I often play as England myself but I've been getting told they aren't very good, after reading through the war academy I realise they are a slow starter but good later on (especially in conquerers fortunately), so this thread has helped me a lot since I know to persevere, I'm going to use England's strong econony to rake in the cash to help me keep up in the tech race next time, until I read this I was hesitent to ever spend a penny in my treasury on buying stuff from other civs.
  15. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Feb 19, 2003
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    It has been three years since I finished this great adventure the first time. I think I have improved immensely in this game. Civ IV is out and played by many - not me. For my amusement I have decided to try it again.
    The variant here is that I will not move the capital - period.

    My goal is to win and finish sooner than I did with the first attempt.

    This time I think I will leave the governor off for a while.
    Looking at CRPmapstat, I see that we have iron, saltpeter and horses to sell.

    590 AD
    Increase science % to complete theology in 1.
    I see some trad opportunities, but I think I'll be better off finishing the theology and trading for what's next.
    MM all the cities

    Did not MM well as two riot.

    600 AD
    Change setting to notify if cities riot, also to wait at end of turn
    Set science at 0%

    Buy chemistry from France for 75 gold and 22 gpt
    Buy education and terr map from Arabs for chemistry
    Buy metallurgy, printing press, 8 gold and terr map from England for saltpeter
    Buy banking from Egypt for metallurgy
    Buy military tradition, furs and terr map from Russia for horses, 23 gpt and 10 gold
    Buy astronomy, 5 gold from Mongols for military tradition

    MM cities - gold up to +8 gpt, switch some builds to banks as we need money

    Germans DOW France

    610 AD
    Buy physics from Egypt for mil trad and 14 gold (I have 9 more techs than 590 AD)

    Mongols building Smiths - this is good as we are not that far behind

    620 AD
    Disband a few warriors. Even though I am playing this C3C, republic charges 1 gpt per unit just like PTW. Decide to keep unit count around 80 for a while. Will disband units as better units are built.
    Some workers, settlers, muskets and samurai are coming out.

    India building universal suffrage

    630 AD
    Claimed ivory from Russia with a settler on the border.

    640 AD
    Do the Arabs a favor. Buy navigation, music theory and 5 gold for physics and metallurgy

    France completes Smiths, and the wonder cascades happen

    650 AD
    Mongols lack magnetism
    Buy magnetism from England paying 84 gold and 32 gpt
    Buy theory of gravity from Mongols paying magnetism and 2 gpt

    Japan enters industrial ages. I notice some tech disparities but we have nothing to trade to take advantage

    Buy world map and 16 gold from Egypt paying theory of gravity and magnetism
    Buy economics and world map from Arabs for magnetism. World maps are cheap all of a sudden

    660 AD
    not much, workers busy

    670 AD
    Japan at +2 gpt with 45 gold in the kitty. Paying 79 gpt for unit maint and 79 gpt to other civs
    Builds so far are workers, settlers, markets, banks, and some military units. I put a granary in the capital where I plan to build unit -> worker -> unit -> worker to help beef up the worker population

    Rome and Germany MA vs France. I think briefly about joing a war to get something, but take no action.

    Session 2:

    680 AD
    Disband 6 units - regular spears

    690 AD
    We have 23 workers plus a couple slave workers. This should cover the 10-11 cities we have quite well.
    Challenge #1: Mongols demand territory map and 18 gold. After much debate I give it in hopes they will DOW someone else

    700 AD - not much

    710 AD
    Found city of zerksees in the southeast grabbing an extra iron from Germany

    720 AD
    Buy steam power from China, paying ivory, 119 gold and 47 gpt
    Buy medicine and terr map from Englad giving steam power
    Buy democracy, world map, 41 gold paying medicine

    Russia completes Universal Suffrage. Wonders cascade.
    Kyoto riots due to selling ivory and not MM'ing the cities

    730 AD
    Buy wines from India for 53 gold and 6 gpt

    Wonder cascade apparently helps Germans build TOE.

    740 AD
    Build city named Audacity in the north taking a few more tiles from Russia

    750 AD
    I want to buy sanitation from America. I decide it is optional tech and I can't use it now anyway, so I hold off. I'll save my tech lead on them to buy something else.

    Challenge #2: America demands steam power. :eek: I give it but their fate is sealed.

    760 AD - nothing much

    770 AD
    Start lone scientist gambit - on nationalism. I would like to draft units if needed

    France and Germany make peace
    The people love zerksees and expand the palace

    780 AD
    Found Coal City, taking coal tile from Germany

    790 AD
    Arabs have nationalism. This is significant because they will take medicine, steam power and military tradition in trade for it. Done deal.

    800 AD
    Turn 21 of the 2nd attempt
    We are at +77 gpt as our early gpt deals end. We also have some resource/lux to trade.
    Buy Electricity from England paying 180 gold, saltpeter and 21 gpt

    23 gpt for furs deal is up with Russia. Start a new deal - buy replaceable parts and furs paying horses, 8 gold and 69 gpt. What AI in their right mind would sell me Replaceable Parts at any price?

    810 AD
    We have rubber.
    Buy industrialization and world map from America paying Electricity
    Buy the corporation, free artistry, world map, 17 gold and 1 gpt from England paying replaceable parts
    Coal is now attached and the railroading begins. I am getting dangerous already

    Been disbanding units as new units are built.

    Now we need some more embassies starting with our neighbors

    Some cannon builds were switched to artillery and have completed!

    820 AD
    Starting to seriously size up opponents. America and Russia lack coal so there will be less of a surge. It is really a no brainer though as America has a very small border with us, plus they are stinking extortionists!
    A golden age awaits.

    Build embassy in Washington for 59 gold

    830 AD
    Suddenly German troops appear in the southeast. Hope they are not gunning for Japan
    All these techs mean cities need more infrastructure. Some are starting stock exchanges. I am quite sure Charlemagne did not have to worry about stock exchanges.

    840 AD
    Cities are close, all are now connected by rail.

    Challenge #3: Germans come demanding territory map and 21 gold. I am glad to give this because it is a sign they are about to make war. Bismarck makes some comment about boot-licker. Sticks and stones...
    To prove me right, Germany immediately DOW's America

    850 AD
    No cities change hands that I can see. German troops are starting to clog up my roads
    Spend 92 gold to establish embassy in Moscow

    860 AD
    Our military is still quite weak. This game I need shields now more than anything - need to build some infantry and artillery. With replaceable parts, techs can be secondary for a while. I need gold to upgrade units and rush improvements as many cities are busy with basic infrastructure like aqueducts, markets, banks, factories, etc.

    Right now I need some land, and I think we are going to get it at the expense of the Americans. I am going to muster all the free units and go after Baltimore. There is a lone Egyptian city north of there that I also plan to take soon.

    Took a sneak peek at the first attempt, and noticed the old zerksees did not get steam until 990 AD and repl parts not until 1120 AD.

    Session 3:
    Preparing road to America

    Russia and Germany MA vs. America

    DOW America. Move stack of 15 units on border of Baltimore: 2 cats, 1 infantry, 2 longbow, 2 sword, 8 samurai

    Launch all the arty exc 1. Launch attack. Had a victorious samurai triggering the golden age, and a few elite promotions. Took out 2 rifles and 3 spears, costing 1 infantry, 2 LB, 1 sword, 2 samurai [5-6]. Baltimore is razed and we get 4 slave workers
    Knock off American longbow in German territoty [6-6]

    Germans and Indians start Hoover Dam

    890 AD
    DOW Egypt. Asyut has a rifle and musket, and their forbidden palace
    Upgrade a couple units
    New Baltimore is founded

    Mongols and Germans MPP - Mongols DOW America
    We can build Iron Works
    Germans failed planting a spy on us
    Americans drop 4 nights outside New Baltimore

    900 AD
    Attack the 4 knights - redline with arty. Use elite samurai to defeat the first and get a leader. Immediately convert to an army. Use second elite sam on the second one and get another leader! Immediately convert. Use elite sam on third to defeat it - no leader. [9-6]
    Form a samurai army and move in position next to Asyut

    Fortified sam in New Baltimore holds off American cav [10-6]
    England and Germany MA vs. America

    910 AD
    Take Asyut from Egypt defeating a rifle and musket with artillery and our army. It is size 2 so we keep it. [12-6]

    Need more units to fill second army.

    Session 4
    Game time is up to 7 hrs 58 minutes

    Yikes we are behind in tech.
    Buy steel from India for 488 gold and 57 gpt
    Buy refining from England for steel + 16 gpt
    Buy combustion from Russia for 102 gpt
    Buy scientific method, 5 gpt, 135 gold, world map from England paying combustion
    Buy espionage, sanitation, 3 gpt, 30 gold, WM from Mongols paying electricity and refining
    Buy communism and WM from Arabs paying electricity

    Behind atomic theory and mass production to India, China and Germany. Behind AT to Russia and France

    Rome and Germans sign MPP
    Lost a worker to Egyptian cav - they must have ROP with China
    Out comes the powerful nations of the world list. We are not on it. St. Augustine better rethink his list

    Found Toyama as a roadway to Cincinnati.
    Defeat a rifle, a pike and a spear and Cinn is razed. +5 workers
    Knock off three invading Egyptian cavs [6-2]

    Lost New Baltimore to America cavs - it autorazed. We are paper thin still and this proves it
    Lost a couple other units in the open [6-6]

    930 AD
    Had to increase lux to 10%
    Defeat a lone egypt cav
    Getting our units in position for Houston

    Renew wines with Gandhi for 18gpt
    Germans take Houston

    940 AD
    Whack 3 more Egyptian cavs

    China and Russia MA vs America
    Lost an infantry to Egyptian cavs
    Germans complete Hoover Dam

    950 AD
    See no value in further attack on America. Make peace and collect San Diego
    Sign ROP with China for 25 gold
    Defeat musket and rifle and Giza is razed. +5 workers
    Take three more Egyptian cavs in the open [15-7]

    960 AD
    moving on the next city
    somewhere in here found a city on German border to grab dyes
    Disconnect Egyptian horses to stop the cavalry flow

    970 AD
    razed another Egyptian city defeating two rifles and one musket. [18-7] 3 free workers IIRC
    place replacement city on same spot and we have incense.

    Buy flight from Gandhi for 82 gpt and 585 gold
    Buy mass production, 5 gold, 15 gpt, WM from England paying flight
    Buy atomic theory from France paying flight, 20 gold and 10 gpt

    What next? Well I am way ahead of the last game. I think I'll separate Egypt from more or all of their core of cities.

    Still in golden age. Need to expand quickly.

    Tech pace is super fast for regent and I am not sure if we can keep up. Our defense still has a lot of pikes and I can see the Chinese have radar towers. In this game conquest is the only way out so no worries about space ships or UN votes. I'll just keep slugging.

    Session 4 ended (though it was more than one sitting)

    Session 5
    Founded Echizen and Bizen in Egypts lands on their city ruins

    sam defeat cav
    Kyoto finishes heroic epic
    extra luxes bring WLTKD in several cities

    980 AD
    Notice many civs now have electronics
    Moving on Hiercanopolis

    990 AD
    Defeat musket, spear and longbow and Hiercanopolis is ours. Its small so it stays [3-0]

    1000 AD
    Defeat two rifles and Heliopolis is ours [5-0]

    India and Russia sign MPP
    Buy furs from Russia for 30 gpt
    Double palace expansion

    1010 AD
    Spot former American oil resource. Working to get a settler down there ASAP. To help speed this up, I sign ROP w/Germans for 6 gpt

    Rome and India MA vs Arabs
    Germany and Rome MA vs Arabs
    China and Egypt embargo against us. Very weak Cleo.

    1020 AD
    Samurais defeat rifle and musket (oh yeah w/arty suppt) and Elephantine is ours [7-0]. We keep it, +2 workers inside.
    Defeat lone cav on a mountain.
    Lost an infantry but defeat rifle, musket and cav taking Alexandria. [11-1] We keep it and there are +3 workers inside. We are deep in the core and Egyptian prospects are dim.

    England and America make peace
    India and Russia MA vs America

    1030 AD
    Defeat 2 rifle, pike and spear and Thebes is razed. +4 workers IIRC. Both samurai armies are at work here. [15-1]
    Put a settler on the spot to rebuild next turn
    Buy electronics from Gandhi for saltpeter and 41 gpt

    Russia DOW Arabs
    Russian tanks appear, spot first German mech inf
    Egypt last gasp - cavalry defeats our cav in a the open [15-2]

    1040 AD
    Buy radio from France paying incense, 69 gpt, 500 gold
    Buy motorized transportation, 59 gold, 6 gpt from England paying radio
    We are in the modern era.

    Create a cav army from the third leader
    Attack Memphis. Lost a cav defeating 2 rifles a musket and a longbow [19-3]. We take and keep the size 5 city
    Attack Byblos. There is only one spearman. He loses and the city is razed +4 workers. [20-3]
    Egypt has lost their core and down to 2 cities. I take one - Abydos - in the peace treay along with 14 gold and WM. Too many AI between us and them to finish Egpyt now.

    Cut lux to 0% and MM cities.

    1050 AD
    Not much
    Officially lose track of the session counts I have been using

    1060 AD
    Armies healing

    Notice on IBT that Germans and China are building SETI

    1070 AD

    The golden age ends soon so better get some trades going while gpt is still up:
    Buy rocketry from Russia for 165 gpt
    Buy ecology from France for rocketry and 11 gpt
    Buy computers, amphibious war, 4 gold and WM from England for rocketry and ecology

    Sell atomic theory to Rome for 7gpt, 30 gold, wm
    Sell electronics to Mongols for 5 gpt and 14 gold
    Sell the corporation to Arabs for spices, 43 gold, wm
    Sell refining to America for 12 gold + wm

    Upgrade a couple inf to mech inf

    complete Wall St.
    America and Russia make peace
    France and Russia start SETI
    Trade expires - decide to get a cash advance from Ganndhi - pay 100 gpt for 1800 gold

    1080 AD
    Golden Age ends :sad:
    Suddenly we are at -77 gpt
    Buy embassy in India for 146 gold
    Since the war with America is over I have been thinking about who is next. This turn I am sizing up Russia.

    America is destroyed by China. One down.
    Egypt and Russia MA vs Arabs

    1090 AD
    All of a sudden we are at -277 gpt. So the golden age really ended this turn
    Still building

    dogpile on Arabs as France and India MA, as do China and Germany
    See some German modern armor. On regent at 1090 AD!

    1100 AD

    1110 AD
    Spent 15 hrs and 46 mins so far
    Score is 448, chasing Egypt at 544, Arabs at 678 and everyone else above that (Last game my score was 440 at 1250 AD)
    Deficit of 74 gpt, but still have 1282 gold in the kitty

    1120-1190 AD
    Laziness kicks in and I quit doing turn log each turn. Decided to go after Russia next. Also thinking no new gpt deals exc China in case I want a MPP with them
    Lock in plan to crush Russia next. Start preparations
    renew ROP with China.
    Mongols DOW Russia in 1160 AD
    England signs MPP with India and Germany

    1200 AD
    Arabs are destroyed. Two down. And I had nothing to do with this one :dunno:
    Afer several attempts planted a spy in Russia, did not start the war

    1230 AD
    Finally ROP is up with Russa. I issue remove or declare and she declares
    Germany gladly accepts 42 gpt for MA vs Russia
    China also accepts 36 gpt for MA vs Russia
    India gives spices, wines and 500 gold for saltpeter

    We are sporting 16 tanks, 32 mech inf, 10 cav and 25 arty

    Start with Rostov - southern most core Russian city. Use arty and tanks to take Rostov. Defeat 1 inf under radaer tower, then 2 MA and 2 inf. Let the razing begin

    Counter attacks cost us one tank and one MI, Russia loses half a dozen units
    Double palace expand

    1240 AD
    Had to abandon size 2-3 Abydos (city I took from Egypt in peace deal), since Russians appeared right outside the door and there are no units to defend it.
    Lost an elite samurai and three tanks defeating 1 MA, 2 inf, 2 Cossack. Krasnoyarsk is razed.

    Can't reach Egypt anytime soon. Want them gone. Sign MA with Rome vs Egypt's OCC. Caesar can take care of it.

    Egypt and China MA vs Russia
    Russia has 4-5 bombers pestering us

    1250 AD
    Notice we are ahead of Egypt in score
    Decide to take Boston from the Russians so Germans don't get it. Lost 3-4 tanks to defeat 4 MI and a Cossack. Raze the city, gain 5 workers. Wrecked 3-4 Russian bombers inside. Replace the city with New Boston - have some settlers in inventory.

    China and Mongols sign MPP

    1255 AD
    Odessa had 4 MI and a MA - raze it +9 workers. New fur resources for us

    Rome does their job and Egypt is dead. Three down.

    1260 AD
    Astrakan (on the east coast) falls - we keep it since it is on German border
    Buy fission from Mongols paying synthetic fibers, furs and 12 gpt

    Another double palace expand on the IBT
    No one else might care, but the electronic people love zerksees

    1265 AD
    Raze Sevastopol. This was size 19.

    Russians nuke us! The beloved city of zerksees is subject to tactical nuke attack. The reason? It has rubber. A lone pikeman holds the fort surrounded by the nuclear fallout.

    Yikes the nukes come a lot earlier this game. My guess is I got too raze happy.

    The entire world declares war on Russia (maybe it was only one or two civs since she was already at war with the rest). And I can hear the nukes in the air flying to Russia in retaliation

    1270 AD
    Put three workers on the rubber to reconnect.
    We need more workers. Take and raze Novogorod. Russians created this mess, they are going to clean it up.
    Placing important units away from cities to avoid fallout if we get hit again

    More nukes in the air, I can hear them. None are directed at us.

    1275 AD
    Moving on St. Petersburg. It was nuked so there is only one unit in there. Easy take and we keep.

    1280 AD
    We take Moscow (also nuked by the AI) and Minsk. Russia down to one city. So far China has two cities from Russia and Germany has one.

    1285 AD
    Smolensk falls and Russia is dead. Four down:

    One AI nukes another.
    India DOW China
    Another palace expand

    1290 AD
    Buy nuclear power from Gandhi for gold and gpt
    Buy miniaturization from Mongols paying nuclear power
    Put a wall of units across gap near south of my territory to keep Germans from sending units south

    Rome and India MA vs China
    Germany DOW Rome
    Mongols DOW Rome
    More nukes fly

    1295 AD
    All this peace? Well looks like Japan is the only one at peace ATM
    Could China be next?

    Germany and Mongols DOW India

    1300 AD
    Trade with India - get a tech, give lux and gpt (can't recall what we got)
    Buy smart weapons, 737 gold and 27 gpt from China for uranium

    Do not renew ROP with China

    1305 AD IBT
    More nukes fly
    I think I put a spy in China here

    1310 AD
    We have 56 MI, 18 MA, 38 arty, 6 bomber, and misc.
    Issue remove or declare on China, and they declare war on us
    China has 33 MA and 4 tactical nukes. Will try war with them without razing cities.

    Germany joins us. Give them integrated defense, collect 2381 gold and 20 gpt in the exchange

    Opening volley: Defeat four MA in the open, then take Ningpo (at SW corner of Japan's territory) and raze it. Also take Tientsin and raze it - collect 13 workers, 2 arty and a crusie missile.

    At 650 in score we are ahead of Arabs and Egypt and presumably will get ahead of the free falling Russians and Americans.

    Rome and India MA vs France
    Another Tientsin is founded near the old one, though this one is a lot smaller
    Skirmishing cost them a MA, and us a few MI and a couple cavs
    Mongols DOW Germany

    1315 AD
    China in anarchy
    Take Riga in the north, eliminating China's only possible source of uranium

    1320 AD
    Take Xinjian and Macao

    Nukes fly but not against us
    Germans wreck the newer Tientsin

    1325 AD
    Sell smart weapons to England collecting stealth and WM. Doubt she'll have it long
    Capture Kaifeng - took out a Chinese tactical nuke

    Mongols land a pike and a spear in the north. Scary - not.
    France DOW Germany

    1330 AD
    Take Anyang and whack another tactical nuke. They have two left
    Take Tsingtao and we own Newton's University. Too bad we are not researching anything

    More nukes going off
    Get ROP with India. Will need that later
    Do not renew ROP with Germany

    1335 AD
    Vladivostok taken. China no longer has a presence north of Japanese territory, simplifying defense

    More nukes fly. Presume AI's have SDI and most are not getting through

    1340 AD
    England has 1 city left. Give integrated defense, get genetics, WM and 7 gold
    China finally emerges from their anarchy into communism
    Sell aluminum to France for 450 gpt. A deal I could not refuse.
    Capture Tatung and Shanghai. 5 free arty in Shanghai

    Lost two lux and could not renew. Lots of cities riot

    1345 AD
    Capture Yangchow and Shantung. We get another leader who is promptly converted to MA army.
    Chengdu falls to our armies. We have Leonardos. China has 5 cities left

    Rampaging Indians eliminate England. 5 down
    More nukes fly

    1350 AD
    Defense is stacked 10 high in Beijing. No matter, we wreck them all and take the city, acquiring SETI. China on the ropes big time but still have a couple tactical nukes left. We will finish SDI soon.

    More nukes fly
    Mongols and Germans make peace
    India and Germans make peace

    Hangchow falls and we get 410 gold

    more nukes fly - mostly every IBT now.
    Germany DOW Mongols

    1360 AD
    We are running a -149 gpt deficit atm
    Working on Paoting
    Try careful steal from China for 3956 gold. It fails

    1365 AD
    Finally take Paoting and raze it netting 532 gold
    Canton falls. Collect 770 gold and raze the city
    Chinan falls. Collect 700+ gold.
    Why are they not dead? Argh China has Coventry on the other continent. The nuke must be on a sub!

    Renew furs for silks trade with India paying 170 gold. With a deficit I could not do gpt.

    1370 AD
    Mao also owns London now. What the ?
    Better get some boats and get over there

    Mongol and India make peace
    Rome and China make peace
    Rome DOW China again!?
    China launches their nuke against us but our superior SDI stops it. Some city with aluminum was targeted

    1375 AD
    Sell fission to Rome for 673 gold
    Sell off any libraries I can find. We are not using them

    Rampaging Indians finally finishes off China. Six AI are dead (America, Arab, Egypt, Russia, England, China).
    India DOW Germany
    Gandhi caught trying to steal our troop movement plans

    1380 AD
    We are number 8 in score ahead of America, England, Arabs and Egypt

    India and France make peace

    1385 AD
    Germany is next. Start preparations
    Give up on MM. Put governor on in all cities
    10 turns left on ROP with Germans
    Lots of Chinese citizens resisting. Putting in some military police to calm them
    We are #1 in population, GNP, mfg, productivity, #2 in annual income and #3 in land

    St. Augustine recognizes us as the most powerful nation. Last time we were not even on his worthless list. Better switch to communism so I can suppress that free press :lol:

    1390 AD
    Is there any doubt I can win this? Not in my mind. But methinks I'll play a little longer. Germans will be a moderate challenge, and taking down India will be some work. If I were Gandhi I'd think twice about giving me a ROP. :mischief: The rest are cleanup.
  16. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Feb 19, 2003
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    I picked this up again a couple months back and finally finished. Here is the rest - cliff note-ish:

    At this point I think I have all the techs. There may have been a few more to get, but I had them all before I wiped out Germany in 1465. They had at least 75 modern armor in the opening attack, but then their unit counts fell off and I picked off their cities one by one. Had to go to communism because war weariness was getting pretty bad.

    Somewhere in the German war I tried to steal the last tech from France and they DOW. They lasted until 1480. Had to fight them both for a while but it was not much of a problem. India was also at war and nuking so I was trying to get as many cities as I could before they got nuked.

    1485 scores: Japan 1399, France 1453, India 1926 and Germany 1992.

    1490 - switch back to republic

    Spent some time on preparations for the Indian war, building nukes, ships, armies. Had a toe hold on their continent with one city built in former Arab land. Put an airfield there and shipped a lot of arty and armies by transport. Spent a lot of time and gold investigating Indian cities, trying to find their SDI city. Wanted to repeat last game's adventure by knocking it out. Searched and searched - but never found it. Finally ready to attack India. Planning to have Mongols join us to reduce Indian unit counts.

    In 1535 DOW India. Signed MPP with Mongols, they would not DOW India. Launched a nuke on India. Lo and behold it hit. The Indians did not have Strategic Missile Defense. Launched like 20 more on all the big cities. This caused Rome and Mongols to DOW us. Rome was down to a 3CC and on an island. Mongols concerned me a little.

    On the IBT the Indians launched 13 ICBMs and only 1 hit. Mongols launched 9 and 3 hit. Only four to clean up, and no resources missing.

    Time for retribution. I had been feeding Rome some resources and lux so they would fight India. Now I nuked their best city. India had taken a city on their island so I figured they would finish the Romans.

    Mongols really ticked me off, so I nuked them next. My foothold was right between Mongol and Indian territoty, so I decided the Mongols needed to go first.

    In 1540 the Indians knocked off the nuclear contaminated Romans.

    The Mongols folded up like a paper bag and were completely out by 1550. Modern Armor, arty stacks and lots of MA armies made quick work of them, while creating a containment line at the Indian border.

    India took a little longer, but mostly because of the nuclear fallout slowing travel. I knocked out India in 1580 and the game was over.

    This time it only took 79 hours and 23 minutes. Final score 3692.

    This was a considerable improvement over the first attempt which lasted until 1846 and took 144 hours. Chapter closed, and thanks for reading.
  17. Peebo

    Peebo Grand Poobah

    Jun 25, 2003
    I just read this entire epic story, and it's very interesting and encouraging! It reinforces the belief that one should never give up, because victory is always possible, even in the most dire circumstances.
  18. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

    Jun 15, 2008
    on a learning curve
    hi zerksees, i have not noticed until now you did that job for a second time
    awesome story, and it would be great to see you in action again. what kind of task would we have to offer you to go again? ;)

  19. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Feb 19, 2003
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    Thanks templar_x . I am not sure what would get me motivated to play now. Still love the game but presently there are too many other things getting priority. I know if I start a Civ game I won't be able to stop until it is done, so I am not starting any - at the beginning or in the middle - for the time being.

    After clearing the Civ addiction I realized if I was going to pour this much effort into something fun, it should be fun and profitable. So I started playing poker. The stories are not as epic as Civ games, but I like it.
  20. Mike Hussey

    Mike Hussey Cricketer

    Feb 12, 2007
    Good to see you again zerksees!

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