Redistribution System
- Thread starter lemmy101
- Start date
lemmy101
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2006
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Added additional info on Borders civics and immigration system for feedback!:
Border patrols
- Default
Controlled borders
-50% immigration to civ
Isolationism
No multi-turn trade agreements possible with other civs
No international trade routes
-2 attitude in all civs
+500% espionage
No foreign religion spread into lands
-100% war weariness
-5 unhappy citizens
-40% science
No emmigration from civ
no immigration to civ
-50% revolution increase (RevMP)
Freedom of travel
Any rival civs at peace can enter lands freely
+10% science
+10% culture
Open Borders
Any rival civs at peace can enter lands freely and will not be expelled on declaration of war.
+10% science
+10% commerce
+20% culture
+2 trade routes per city
x2 foreign religion spread
x2 immigration to civ
x2 emmigration from civ
0.5 unhappiness for each immigrant in city (? balance)
Clearly Open Borders is a powerful civic, but comes with a huge risk attached. As well as unhappiness from uncontrolled immigration and effectively giving a one sided open borders with all other civs (especially dangerous now non-state religions can cause revolutions), rival civs will not be expelled from your borders if they declare war... which is, of course, extremely hazardous...
Isolationism is also a potentially powerful civic allowing unprecedented espionage power and happiness due to control of information, at a heavy cost to science and trade commerce.
Basically one goal with this dangling carrot is to provide an incentive for people to open their borders to EVERYONE, which would allow for the potential for getting missionaries and so on into the lands of rival civs who hate you without declaring war on them, while providing those who like to keep their civ closed off a mechanism in-game to reflect this beyond just ignoring open borders agreements and such.
Note these effects are just off the top of my head, they may be way off balanced as until I get it in game I'll not be able to see how it plays, so if anyone has any thoughts that'd be awesome.
Border patrols
- Default
Controlled borders
-50% immigration to civ
Isolationism
No multi-turn trade agreements possible with other civs
No international trade routes
-2 attitude in all civs
+500% espionage
No foreign religion spread into lands
-100% war weariness
-5 unhappy citizens
-40% science
No emmigration from civ
no immigration to civ
-50% revolution increase (RevMP)
Freedom of travel
Any rival civs at peace can enter lands freely
+10% science
+10% culture
Open Borders
Any rival civs at peace can enter lands freely and will not be expelled on declaration of war.
+10% science
+10% commerce
+20% culture
+2 trade routes per city
x2 foreign religion spread
x2 immigration to civ
x2 emmigration from civ
0.5 unhappiness for each immigrant in city (? balance)
Clearly Open Borders is a powerful civic, but comes with a huge risk attached. As well as unhappiness from uncontrolled immigration and effectively giving a one sided open borders with all other civs (especially dangerous now non-state religions can cause revolutions), rival civs will not be expelled from your borders if they declare war... which is, of course, extremely hazardous...
Isolationism is also a potentially powerful civic allowing unprecedented espionage power and happiness due to control of information, at a heavy cost to science and trade commerce.
Basically one goal with this dangling carrot is to provide an incentive for people to open their borders to EVERYONE, which would allow for the potential for getting missionaries and so on into the lands of rival civs who hate you without declaring war on them, while providing those who like to keep their civ closed off a mechanism in-game to reflect this beyond just ignoring open borders agreements and such.
Note these effects are just off the top of my head, they may be way off balanced as until I get it in game I'll not be able to see how it plays, so if anyone has any thoughts that'd be awesome.
lemmy101
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2006
- Messages
- 1,064
Getting close now (though have a new civic category to get icons for now 
)
We now have fully working immigration / emigration system what works as follows:
When a city grows unhappy or unhealthy, you're losing a war badly, or you're too whip-happy, there is a base chance per turn that effected population will consider emigrating. If this happens, you will receive a pop-up warning you and giving you the reasons, and you have an indeterminate amount of turns to address the problem before they go, if you manage this, they will abandon the move, if not, then they'll move from your city. It could be anywhere from 1 population to half a cities population (but this would have to be super severe, I've never even seen close in tests)
They will then choose a city to move to, that's weighted on a ton of factors from happiness, healthiness, target civ's wars, civics, culture, distance, and lots of other stuff.
If the city they choose is in your own civ then they'll simply relocate there, but chances are it'll be elsewhere in the world.
When they go, however, there is a chance that they will spread any religions that are in the city they leave (more likely for state religion) and also, they will add some culture of your civ to the city they move to. By the end of the game most successful cities will likely be multicultural, containing a minority of most civs in the game.
So there are positives and negatives for both immigration and emigration, if you are badly losing a war you may see lots of your population flee to neighbouring civs at peace as refugees. On the plus side, they will likely spread culture and religion a fair bit for you.
The new civic category, Borders, allow for different strategies for capitalising on the positives, and defence against the down sides.
Border patrols
- Default
Controlled borders
-50% Immigration to Civ
+10% Great People
+10% Commerce in all cities
-10% Culture in all cities
Useful if you want to avoid the majority of culture / religion spread from immigrants, but still want your people to emigrate to spread culture / religion to other cities. You have a culture penalty though since less people are coming in and spicing things up.
Isolationism
No multi-turn trade agreements possible with other civs
No international trade routes
+200% espionage
No foreign religion spread into lands
+3 happy citizens in biggest cities
-20% science
+10% production
No emmigration from civ
No immigration to civ
For the North Korea style of play. Gives a huge espionage bonus at the cost of science (from lack of collaboration in the scientific community) as well as no trade routes possible, and completely halts all immigration and emigration to and from your civ. Happiness due to ease of propaganda, and while it doesn't stop religion spread inside your civ, will stop all religion entering your borders.
Also, now that unhappiness and unhealthiness can cause much more rapid population loss for cities, spies poisining water and fermenting unhappiness are much more of a worry for other civs.
Freedom of travel
Any rival civs can enter lands freely without Open Borders.
+10% science
+10% commerce
+20% culture
+2 trade routes per city
x2 foreign religion spread
x2 immigration to civ
x2 emmigration from civ
0.5 unhappiness for each immigrant in city
the bonuses to science, commerce and culture from having truly open borders, as well as potential problems from immigration/emigration are balanced by 1 unhappiness for each 2 immigrants in your cities.
re: Wonders
The Sphinx has been added (taken from the awesome Thomas' War) with a new effect, which gives the civ all the Redistribution civics for controlling food / production distribution in your civ.
The Great Wall has been made the same hammers as the Pyramids and Sphinx, and now also provides all the Borders civics.
Specific values are still WIP, this still probably isn't terribly balanced, but any feedback would be much appreciated!
)We now have fully working immigration / emigration system what works as follows:
When a city grows unhappy or unhealthy, you're losing a war badly, or you're too whip-happy, there is a base chance per turn that effected population will consider emigrating. If this happens, you will receive a pop-up warning you and giving you the reasons, and you have an indeterminate amount of turns to address the problem before they go, if you manage this, they will abandon the move, if not, then they'll move from your city. It could be anywhere from 1 population to half a cities population (but this would have to be super severe, I've never even seen close in tests)
They will then choose a city to move to, that's weighted on a ton of factors from happiness, healthiness, target civ's wars, civics, culture, distance, and lots of other stuff.
If the city they choose is in your own civ then they'll simply relocate there, but chances are it'll be elsewhere in the world.
When they go, however, there is a chance that they will spread any religions that are in the city they leave (more likely for state religion) and also, they will add some culture of your civ to the city they move to. By the end of the game most successful cities will likely be multicultural, containing a minority of most civs in the game.
So there are positives and negatives for both immigration and emigration, if you are badly losing a war you may see lots of your population flee to neighbouring civs at peace as refugees. On the plus side, they will likely spread culture and religion a fair bit for you.
The new civic category, Borders, allow for different strategies for capitalising on the positives, and defence against the down sides.
Border patrols
- Default
Controlled borders
-50% Immigration to Civ
+10% Great People
+10% Commerce in all cities
-10% Culture in all cities
Useful if you want to avoid the majority of culture / religion spread from immigrants, but still want your people to emigrate to spread culture / religion to other cities. You have a culture penalty though since less people are coming in and spicing things up.
Isolationism
No multi-turn trade agreements possible with other civs
No international trade routes
+200% espionage
No foreign religion spread into lands
+3 happy citizens in biggest cities
-20% science
+10% production
No emmigration from civ
No immigration to civ
For the North Korea style of play. Gives a huge espionage bonus at the cost of science (from lack of collaboration in the scientific community) as well as no trade routes possible, and completely halts all immigration and emigration to and from your civ. Happiness due to ease of propaganda, and while it doesn't stop religion spread inside your civ, will stop all religion entering your borders.
Also, now that unhappiness and unhealthiness can cause much more rapid population loss for cities, spies poisining water and fermenting unhappiness are much more of a worry for other civs.
Freedom of travel
Any rival civs can enter lands freely without Open Borders.
+10% science
+10% commerce
+20% culture
+2 trade routes per city
x2 foreign religion spread
x2 immigration to civ
x2 emmigration from civ
0.5 unhappiness for each immigrant in city
the bonuses to science, commerce and culture from having truly open borders, as well as potential problems from immigration/emigration are balanced by 1 unhappiness for each 2 immigrants in your cities.
re: Wonders
The Sphinx has been added (taken from the awesome Thomas' War) with a new effect, which gives the civ all the Redistribution civics for controlling food / production distribution in your civ.
The Great Wall has been made the same hammers as the Pyramids and Sphinx, and now also provides all the Borders civics.
Specific values are still WIP, this still probably isn't terribly balanced, but any feedback would be much appreciated!
lemmy101
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2006
- Messages
- 1,064
This is still coming, guys, just a bit of a delay while I sort some other stuff.
A sneak peek at the other big element of the IndieRevolution mod. Advisor system:
60 advisors that are unlocked on different criteria, from techs to build achievements such as building 5 libraries . You can choose two of these as your chief advisors for their unique bonuses. Only one player can use an advisor at a time,and the first Civ to meet the requirements for the advisor will have the advisor settle in one of their cities and become available for selection. Spies can bribe unused advisors to move to their civs once their civ has the requirements for that advisor. Also capturing the city they live in will work just as well. There is a chance also, that unused advisors may emigrate via the immigration system.
Furthermore, the advisor requirements are permanent, for example some Civic options or religions may be unavailable while you have an advisor who doesn't like them, or requires another. likewise, a way to bring down Sun Tzu in a rival civ could be to sabotage barracks with spies in their cities until they have less than the requirements to use him, at which point he would step down and your rival would have to switch.
You can only change advisor every 5 turns, and they cause a turn of anarchy like any other switch, unless you are a spiritual civ.
When Universal Suffrage / Representation civics are in effect, every X turns (20 or so maybe?) You get to pick two candidates for your advisors, and the game picks another two. Your civ vote on who they want in office, and the winners become your advisors whether you like it or not. The happier your civ are, the more likely they will vote your way. You can build campaign offices in cities to claim 25% of the vote for your nominated candidates in those cities, to help keep your choices in office. Spies will be able to swing votes against you, and you can, if you wish, risk rigging the election. at extreme unhappiness / revolution risk if you get caught.
To further increase votes for your candidates, there are a modest selection of pledges you can tick on the nomination screen. Things like: I pledge to raise the culture rate by 20% for 10 turns, or I pledge to end the war against the French Empire. If you don't fulfil these pledges though you will meet extreme unhappiness in your civ and increased revolution risk.
The potential advisors are a diverse mix of artists, scientists, inventors, political, religious and military figures and authors, each with strengths and weaknesses, and a few turkeys in there to avoid and to provide a risk of getting voted in (you may notice a certain ginger UN Ambassador at the end there. Avoid at all costs! Some of them may be a bit far fetched being political advisors, but hey... they live for thousands of years, so bleh. ;D
A sneak peek at the other big element of the IndieRevolution mod. Advisor system:
60 advisors that are unlocked on different criteria, from techs to build achievements such as building 5 libraries . You can choose two of these as your chief advisors for their unique bonuses. Only one player can use an advisor at a time,and the first Civ to meet the requirements for the advisor will have the advisor settle in one of their cities and become available for selection. Spies can bribe unused advisors to move to their civs once their civ has the requirements for that advisor. Also capturing the city they live in will work just as well. There is a chance also, that unused advisors may emigrate via the immigration system.
Furthermore, the advisor requirements are permanent, for example some Civic options or religions may be unavailable while you have an advisor who doesn't like them, or requires another. likewise, a way to bring down Sun Tzu in a rival civ could be to sabotage barracks with spies in their cities until they have less than the requirements to use him, at which point he would step down and your rival would have to switch.
You can only change advisor every 5 turns, and they cause a turn of anarchy like any other switch, unless you are a spiritual civ.
When Universal Suffrage / Representation civics are in effect, every X turns (20 or so maybe?) You get to pick two candidates for your advisors, and the game picks another two. Your civ vote on who they want in office, and the winners become your advisors whether you like it or not. The happier your civ are, the more likely they will vote your way. You can build campaign offices in cities to claim 25% of the vote for your nominated candidates in those cities, to help keep your choices in office. Spies will be able to swing votes against you, and you can, if you wish, risk rigging the election. at extreme unhappiness / revolution risk if you get caught.
To further increase votes for your candidates, there are a modest selection of pledges you can tick on the nomination screen. Things like: I pledge to raise the culture rate by 20% for 10 turns, or I pledge to end the war against the French Empire. If you don't fulfil these pledges though you will meet extreme unhappiness in your civ and increased revolution risk.
The potential advisors are a diverse mix of artists, scientists, inventors, political, religious and military figures and authors, each with strengths and weaknesses, and a few turkeys in there to avoid and to provide a risk of getting voted in (you may notice a certain ginger UN Ambassador at the end there. Avoid at all costs!
Some of them may be a bit far fetched being political advisors, but hey... they live for thousands of years, so bleh. ;DMashPotato
Chieftain
This mod just keeps growing!
It might be interesting if some advisors wouldn't allow certain civics eg. John Lennon might disallow Police State, which might make your enemies try to swing the vote that way before they invade.
It might be interesting if some advisors wouldn't allow certain civics eg. John Lennon might disallow Police State, which might make your enemies try to swing the vote that way before they invade.
.
lemmy101
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2006
- Messages
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Some of the advisors. Screenshots are low gif quality as there's a fair few of them, btw, they're all a bit prettier in-game (see above). Effects are WIP, some types of effects I've not implemented yet (such as Leonardo will have -50% unit upgrade cost keeping in with earlier Civs) and really I have no idea if the commerce bonuses are too small or too large until they're all in and I can do some play testing:
.
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
I like your idea of only giving research boosts to specific techs.
lemmy101
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2006
- Messages
- 1,064
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