Regarding the myth that balanced tech-trades don't cause YHTWOWE

[Seraiel]

Deity-difficulty, may be different on Noble, where trades are really balanced.

 

[Pangaea]

I've always assumed it's based on how much you have traded with them, with turns taken into account. Sometimes you'll have 4 right away, but slowly it will reduce (unless you keep trading). Perhaps it increases faster if you just gift them stuff, or the trade is "fair" from the game's weird sense of humour.

For instance, I sometimes sell (cheap) techs for gold, despite worst enemy status, and I usually don't get penalised right away.

 

[Seraiel]

I'm expecting it, to be really even on Noble difficulty, but on Deity, where the human has to pay more, he's judged for the amount of Beakers that he needs to add.

Standard rules like that it's easier to get -4 but also the AI forgetting more easily the shorter one knows it also apply.

 

[shpeka]

Can't find the thread now but someone did a lot of code digging and busted this myth.

This diplo modifier is indeed triggered by all trade - resource, tech, gold but is heavily influenced by the turns in which you have known a given civilization.

This is why it is not advisable to start trading with another continent right away - you get the -4 penalty immediately.

Resource trades, GPT trades and unit gifting are all present in the formula but are really insignificant.

 

[Ghpstage]

Its similar to the fair trade calculation, the main difference being that fair trade considers the AIs net profit (I guess net profit is what you meant by 'balanced'?), while worst enemy only uses the value of things you have traded, or granted to the worst enemy with no deductions for what you get in return.

int CvPlayerAI::AI_getRivalTradeAttitude(PlayerTypes ePlayer) const
{
	// XXX human only?
	return -(range(((GET_TEAM(getTeam()).AI_getEnemyPeacetimeGrantValue(GET_PLAYER(ePlayer).getTeam()) + (GET_TEAM(getTeam()).AI_getEnemyPeacetimeTradeValue(GET_PLAYER(ePlayer).getTeam()) / 3)) / ((GET_TEAM(getTeam()).AI_getHasMetCounter(GET_PLAYER(ePlayer).getTeam()) + 1) * 10)), 0, 4));
}

The decay rate multiplier of 10 is double that of the multiplier for fair trade (5) so it will decay twice as fast.

By the way, resources and GPT contribute additional trade value each turn the deal is active and can add up to be pretty significant over time.

 

[labellavienna]

What is "YHTWOWE"?

 

[Seraiel]

What is "YHTWOWE"?

"You have traded with our worst enemies" , look at the red list on screenshot #3.