Regent Succession Game

[Daeron]

I had this new idea for a Civ game after reading this thread. The idea is to play a cold and dry archipelago map and use Feudalism as government in our attempt to conquer the world!

Settings
Version: C3C 1.22
Map: Standard
AI: (max) Random
Civ: Scandinavia

Map: Arid and Cold Archipelago, 80% water
No barbarians
Difficulty: Regent
Rules: Only governments allowed are Despotism and Feudalism. And we must win by Conquest.
Victory conditions: Space quest, Conquest and Cultural are enabled, but we must win by Conquest.

I've already talked to EvilConqueror about this game and he's on board. Since we're both still Regent players, I think this difficulty setting is the best for us. It's the first time since I'm going for something else than the old REX+Republic Slingshot, so I think this will be a good learning experience.

I welcome any player interested in joining this game. That includes players who always play above Regent level. After all, I'm looking not only for a fun and interesting game, but I hope we can learn something from this as well. People who can bring in some experience are more than welcome and so are new players. With the map settings and government choice as they are, we lack a lot of the luxuries people are used to in their games. This should make for a good experience.

I don't expect to be finding rivers in this game, this means we need to learn to work without the fast growth many are used to. For me this will be the first time I'll use Feudalism. I'm expecting some discussion on city placement. We'll need a good 12C/C core to being with, but beyond that we probably need to place them a little tighter?

As an example, this is the first start I rolled. We can roll a few more and choose, though this one looks pretty good considering the map settings.

Spoiler :

The Roster:
Calis
EvilConqueror
Daeron
MinutiaRules
Overseer (overseeing things for now)

Based on the people signing up, we'll see what order in the roster works best for us.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Rivers actually mean more to commerce than growth, at Regent, you'll be ok on that. With Feudalism it might be better to have slow growth. To win by Conquest, you'll need fast wars, but at this level, the unit support Feudalism gives should overwhelm your enemies. Are you sure it won't be too easy? I can't commit fully, but I'll be glad to help out, time permitting. I have been bitten by the love bug, so I'm cutting back a bit on Civ3, but I'll still be around alot.

 

[Own]

lurker's comment: Growth can be limited manually once you get to size 6. Just because you don't want to get to size 7 doesn't mean that you don't want to get to size 6 as soon as possible, so more food is always welcome, especially considering that in Feudalism, you can whip stuff.

 

[Daeron]

Rivers actually mean more to commerce than growth, at Regent, you'll be ok on that. With Feudalism it might be better to have slow growth. To win by Conquest, you'll need fast wars, but at this level, the unit support Feudalism gives should overwhelm your enemies. Are you sure it won't be too easy?

That's a good point about the rivers. Actually, being Seafaring is probably a huge advantage on this map because you do get the extra commerce from founding on the coast. I suppose it'd be possible to make it a little more difficult.

Maybe it'd be interesting to add the rule that once we've taken the first city during a war, we're not allowed to make peace with that civ, but have to continue until that Civ is eliminated? That'd make it all the more important to manage war weariness.

I can't commit fully, but I'll be glad to help out, time permitting. I have been bitten by the love bug, so I'm cutting back a bit on Civ3, but I'll still be around alot.

Bug bites can be nasty, but yours sounds oké though. And of course, since you're quite the warmonger, any input you could bring is more than welcome. Just let us know when you're feeling the itch and have some time to spare.

lurker's comment: Growth can be limited manually once you get to size 6. Just because you don't want to get to size 7 doesn't mean that you don't want to get to size 6 as soon as possible, so more food is always welcome, especially considering that in Feudalism, you can whip stuff.

I hadn't even given whipping that much thought yet. I always mess up my timing and create too much unhappiness.

 

[EvilConqueror]

I've never used Feudalism so that will also be a first for me.

Since it's an Archipelago, we're likely on a small island by ourselves so I think it's best to pack as many cities in as we can. The more cities we have, the faster we'll be able to pump out ships and units for the invasions of other islands.

Since there will be few if any rivers around, we won't have to worry about growing past size 6 as long as we don't build aqueducts.

Maybe it'd be interesting to add the rule that once we've taken the first city during a war, we're not allowed to make peace with that civ, but have to continue until that Civ is eliminated? That'd make it all the more important to manage war weariness.

Hmm, that would make things a bit more challenging. I'd have no issues with adding that rule.

The starting location you posted looks okay considering the conditions. Is that a lake or does it lead to the ocean?

 

[Calis]

I'd be interested in joining this one. My comfort level is Demigod, although in HoF games I've also beaten Deity and SID.

Yet, I am rather unexperienced in SGs and want to gain more experience.

And Vikings on an achi map just sounds fun (going berserk)

On Regent we should be able to go through the game in Despotism, but that would be a team decision, of course.

 

[Daeron]

The starting location you posted looks okay considering the conditions. Is that a lake or does it lead to the ocean?

It's hard to tell, it depends if there's a small land bridge cutting it off from the sea. Though I haven't got much experience with dry settings, it could very well be that with that setting inland lakes are prevented.

I'd be interested in joining this one. My comfort level is Demigod, although in HoF games I've also beaten Deity and SID.

Yet, I am rather unexperienced in SGs and want to gain more experience.

And Vikings on an achi map just sounds fun (going berserk)

Welcome aboard then and yeah, I'm hoping for some fun berserker action!

On Regent we should be able to go through the game in Despotism, but that would be a team decision, of course.

That's also a possibility. We'd have more corruption and the tile penalty of course, but war weariness won't be a problem for us. I'm leaning towards Feudalism because we'll need to put extra thought in our military plans to take islands because of the extra rule.

There will be civs who are centered on more than one island. So we'll need to manage our WW carefully in those longer campaigns.

 

[Optional]

Lurker's comment: Your start is on salt water, because the game makes sure seafaring civs start on the sea. If you're in doubt, you can right-click on a water tile to bring up its properties. Sea gives 1 food, sweet water gives 2.

Sweet water lakes are still possible with these settings. There won't be many rivers and lakes, but that's mainly because Archipelago 80% water simply has many narrow strips of land. 'Dry and arid' mainly means more desert, not less sweet water.

Some random thoughts: You might consider doing some cash hoarding in the early game, considering you're not going for the Republic slingshot and you're the Vikings. So perhaps start 10% on Writing. The Philisophy slingshot would still be good.
Common archers upgrade to berserks, but it costs 150 gold per unit. That's where cash hoarding and trading with the AI for their money would be useful. I think barbarians would help, because of more money in the game from those camps. Also your units will promote easier with some barbs around.

 

[TheOverseer714]

At Regent, barbs are good. No barbs means no goody huts, maybe a handicap here, goody huts are nicer at lower levels. The AIs research rate will be pathetic, and being unable to get free tech from huts will slow them even more. As far as research, you'll want Literature as your Philosophy freebie so you can get Libraries built, self research is a must. Once in the MA, research to Invention for Berserks, then go top branch to Astronomy for Caravels. Production, I would get some Curraghs out ASAP.

 

[MinutiaRules]

This sounds interesting and I have yet to play in a SG. If there is a spot left I'd like to join. The first thread start looks very good. If the water isn't fresh there could still be fresh water close enough to irrigate those wheat. That would allow for improving the gold hill and still have a 4 turner (if I read the map correctly). Also as far as AA strategy I would consider the possibility of beelining to MM (through philosophy) with an GLH prebuild in an appropriate city. Also don't trade with the AI early. Let them get to MM in their own time. With the GLH and MM it may be possible (depending upon the map) to pick up any free island land that's nearby. And also maybe establish a beachead or two. As far as Feudalism is concerned at this level it will be fine. Just think expand and with an conquest VC that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Daeron]

Lurker's comment: Your start is on salt water, because the game makes sure seafaring civs start on the sea. If you're in doubt, you can right-click on a water tile to bring up its properties. Sea gives 1 food, sweet water gives 2.

Another day, another lesson. Seatile it is!

As far as research, you'll want Literature as your Philosophy freebie so you can get Libraries built, self research is a must. Once in the MA, research to Invention for Berserks, then go top branch to Astronomy for Caravels. Production, I would get some Curraghs out ASAP.

Agreed on Lit. Even if we beeline for MM, we'd probably spend the same time waiting for TGL to finish that we could have spend researching MM.

This sounds interesting and I have yet to play in a SG. If there is a spot left I'd like to join. The first thread start looks very good. If the water isn't fresh there could still be fresh water close enough to irrigate those wheat. That would allow for improving the gold hill and still have a 4 turner (if I read the map correctly). Also as far as AA strategy I would consider the possibility of beelining to MM (through philosophy) with an GLH prebuild in an appropriate city. Also don't trade with the AI early. Let them get to MM in their own time. With the GLH and MM it may be possible (depending upon the map) to pick up any free island land that's nearby. And also maybe establish a beachead or two. As far as Feudalism is concerned at this level it will be fine. Just think expand and with an conquest VC that shouldn't be a problem.

Welcome aboard MinutiaRules. I think we've got ourselves a pretty good team here. As said earlier, it depends on our pre-build I think if there's a point in going straight for MM. This is Regent so I don't foresee us having trouble getting TGL.

 

[Calis]

Even more as this is an archipelago map, the AI will be very slow in research, due to isolated positions.

Is the order in the roster the final version?

Am I starting?

 

[Daeron]

Even more as this is an archipelago map, the AI will be very slow in research, due to isolated positions.

Is the order in the roster the final version?

Am I starting?

Yeah, if you're up for it. I think the order I listed should work fine. I took the liberty of settling on the spot to see our surroundings. It looks like we do have fresh water to our left and our island looks pretty big considering the settings.

Let's do 20 turn turnsets for now, until the turns start to get longer. Though perhaps we should pause after some scouting (10 turns?) has been done to discuss city locations. An obvious location I think is NW of the hill 2 tiles N of Trondheim. But apart from that it's hard to say at this point.

I'm not quite sure of Overseer's slow research towards writing in this case. We have the extra commerce bonus from being seafaring, so shouldn't we make a use of that and try to fast research writing -> philosophy -> lit -> MM?

Spoiler :

 

[templar_x]

lurker's comment: i think you should make that decision - fast or min research - before your first move. you might count that the beakers from roading the wheat first will be essential for fastest possible research. otherwise i would bring the water there first, so the worker would either move to the BG or the forest, depending on how you´re going to use tiles for the SF (not too many shields around).

re the SF: a 4-turner won´t be possible without construction/aqueduct or another BG under a forest (Optional once said he knows a trick how to find that out before chopping, if you want to use that). i count only 28 shields even for a 4,5-6,5 SF. 5-7 would work, but therefore you would have had to move towards the lake (eg on the forest 1NW) with your starting settler.

templar_x

 

[Calis]

I would propose a different approach. Start with fast research doing Writing --> Philosophy and take MM as our free tech. While we are doing that we get out some curraghs to find other civs and buy their lvl one techs and whatever they have by that time.

I would not research Literature at all. At least in the beginning and instead build markets to gather cash and do 100% research when we want a specific tech, like Invention for example. 80 shields for the library are quite a lot at the beginning. I would consider that after our shield output has reached a better level. Early contacts are far more important, I think.

I would not go past Invention anyhow. The only bad thing about this is that we won't get better transports than galleys.

 

[EvilConqueror]

I would propose a different approach. Start with fast research doing Writing --> Philosophy and take MM as our free tech. While we are doing that we get out some curraghs to find other civs and buy their lvl one techs and whatever they have by that time.

I agree with this approach. I think it's better if we skip literature to get map making right away. We'll want to get curraghs out asap for contacts/exploring but as Minutia mentioned, we'll need galleys for settling other nearby islands and setting up beachheads.

I'd like to see us crank out some military units for an early invasion rather than focus on city improvements so early.

Since we might be on a pretty big piece of land, there may be an AI sharing our island. We have to be a bit careful about that until we have a better idea of what's around us.

 

[Calis]

I am going to wait for an hour or so for more opinions and then will do the first 10 turns of my set...

 

[TheOverseer714]

I would say that if you want to "go berserk", then early Galleys are better(MM as Philosophy freebie) and build lots of them. Research full speed ahead in that case. I'd say a gamble might be build lots of veteran Archers, stockpile cash, and do a mass upgrade. Berserks are very expensive and take time to build, so shutting research off after Invention might be great to pay for upgrades rather than wait for builds to complete. I'm wondering if this game might be an opportunity to try a strategy I devised for a different Viking SG. I need to find it though. Gee, this sounds fun!

Edit: here is the strategy I had devised, I would love to try it, but if you guys don't want to, it's no loss.

AFAIK, Berserks can be built all the way to Replaceable Parts, and we need them ASAP. If we are going to win this, we need to think outside the box. I'd like to see a roving pack of galleys and later caravels loaded with berserks and pikes to scour the coasts of enemy cities. Attack amphibiously, burning enemy cities and carting the slaves away. We'll need approximately 10-15 galleys with about 10-12 berserks, 4 pikes and about 4 empty galleys. We burn every enemy city on the coast while a pike army guarding a berserk army burns interior cities. We will only keep wonder cities, everything else burns. That's my down and dirty viking hit and run plan, we attrit the enemy to death and leave before they can respond. I think berserks are our ticket to victory, if we wait until infantry, this is going to get very ugly, with us losing 10-20 units per city taken. I will start small with a few galleys and berserks and build up a viking raiding fleet to scour the coasts.

 

[Calis]

Well, I am sorry to disappoint you, but this save is at Emperor difficulty...

You might want to roll a few new maps...

 

[Optional]

Well, I am sorry to disappoint you, but this save is at Emperor difficulty...

Lurker's comment: It happens. Also make sure you've got respawn AI off, and culturally linked off. Preserve random seed on.
If you want, you can re-generate the same start by reading the seed nr. and feeding that to the game at start-up. Make sure you choose 'random opponants' again, incase you've accidentally seen their names.
It's also nice to have a set of starts to choose from, though, as the discussions about which start to pick can already be interesting, and it's a great way to involve the whole team in decision making early.