Relevance of Rivers, Lakes and Ocean (and Mountains)?

[Kordanor]

Hey there,

one thing which bothered me as a multiplayer person in Civ5 was the big difference Rivers and a coastal position made. A starting position with lots of rivers was extremely superior than one without them.

In Civ 5 rivers did grant additional gold per tile. They do the same in Beyond Earth.
Traderoutes are kinda nerfed in Beyond Earth (they are no fixed bonuses anymore, so 3 Cities connected with an inland ocean and 6 traderoutes will probably not boost them through the roof).

But I am wondering if there are also buildings which require rivers (like the Watermill, or the extremely strong hydro pant), lakes, ocean (besides of harbors of course, more thinking about Sydney Opera house), or mountains (like the Observatory).

 

[AriochIV]

There are none that we know of at present, but there are still many buildings and over a dozen wonders that we don't know about yet.

 

[Suicidekills]

I believe there is one building called the water refinery that provides +1 food and production to ocean tiles

 

[Tomice]

How many units are there we don't know about yet, Arioch? I'm wondering about the absence of helicopters, submarines, bombers, various classes of sea units,... (see my other thread)

 

[Alkyon]

What we do know from various streams so far about rivers:
-They give +1 energy to adjacent tiles, much like the old Civ IV and Civ V (pre-BNW) rivers
-Rivers through deserts create flood plains (+food instead of + energy).
-Nothing else except speculation (they probably still slow down movement and provide a defensive bonus).

What we know about coasts:
-1 food normally
-Water Refinery gives +1 food (like a lighthouse)
-can have algae (food) and coral (culture) bonuses, have yet to see offshore oil though so I suspect it might not be in.
-Makes you vulnerable to early Kraken attacks and drive-bys.

 

[gunnergoz]

How many units are there we don't know about yet, Arioch? I'm wondering about the absence of helicopters, submarines, bombers, various classes of sea units,... (see my other thread)

Don't hold your breath for those you mention. I think we know just about every BE unit (if not necessarily each possible affinity-mix variant) in fair detail already. They definitely chose a different route in this game.

 

[Tomice]

AFAIK flood plains have 2 food 1 energy (from being next to river).
I also think water refinery gives 1 food 1 production per water tile (and is the only water tile booster we know so far, info by Ariochs site).

 

[Alkyon]

AFAIK flood plains have 2 food 1 energy (from being next to river).
I also think water refinery gives 1 food 1 production per water tile (and is the only water tile booster we know so far, info by Ariochs site).

So flood plains are 2f 2e? I was pretty sure they were only 2f 1e. If they're 2/2 then those are some seriously powerful base tiles. I'll have to go check the latest Firaxis stream since some are shown.

I fully admit I didn't pay attention to the water refinery besides "gives resources to water tiles" so *shrug*.

 

[AriochIV]

The water refinery does require a coastal city; sorry that I forgot about that. And obviously you need to be on the coast to build naval units. But I don't know of any advantage to setting adjacent to a river. River tiles have +1 energy, but the city doesn't have to be right on the river to take advantage of that.

How many units are there we don't know about yet, Arioch? I'm wondering about the absence of helicopters, submarines, bombers, various classes of sea units,... (see my other thread)

We have the full tech tree and we've seen the civilopedia list of units, so I'm pretty sure we know the full list of units. There are a few orbital units that we know the names of but haven't seen, and there are some upgrades that we haven't seen, but there do not appear to be any helicopters, submarines, etc.

It's possible that the upgrades for the lone air unit might specialize it for interception or ground attack, but since upgrades apply to all units, I'm not sure that would make sense. Same goes for the single naval combat vessel.

There are a number of floating units that can perform the same role as helicopters.

As someone said in the other thread, the AI in Civ V didn't really understand how to use the full range of naval unit types (or, for that matter, how to properly use fighters and bombers), so perhaps the simplification there is for the best.

 

[Tomice]

Thank you for the statement, Arioch!

I'm unsure if I would like some building that requires riverside cities. The little realism freak inside would probably like to see it. But then again, if there aren't any relevant benefits, we'd have more choice where to settle.

 

[Kordanor]

Thanks for the answers!

To me this is great news. Also about the naval units. Naval combat didn't work well in MP matches in Civ 5 and as you already mentioned the AI was horrible in water.

All in all CivBE seems to be designed much more "equally" for the AI. Also due to missing city states, diplomacy victory and artifacts, which were all systems catering purely for the player, almost not used by the AI. At the same time this makes it a better multiplayer game as it needs less house rules to work.

 

[Alkyon]

AFAIK flood plains have 2 food 1 energy (from being next to river).
I also think water refinery gives 1 food 1 production per water tile (and is the only water tile booster we know so far, info by Ariochs site).

Well I finally went back and looked at the video:
"Flood Plain, Desert, River, Miasma: 2f 2e"

All while the nearby deserts are only 1e. So, yeah, Flood Plains are insanely good tiles to build on. Considering the fact you can get grower specialists, and vivariums (which give +1f to any desert tile, and unless they have a petra-like exemption will make flood plains be 3f, 2e before improvement), I could see deserts actually being very, very powerful starts.

 

[Tomice]

It's cool that they took the chance to change the role of certain tiles a bit, deserts and tundra are becoming more important even today, let alone in 250+ years when people are wearing spacesuits anyway.

 

[Alkyon]

Yeah, Desert + Firaxite looks like it would be an incredibly powerful Supremacy start no matter how you slice it, especially if you have any rivers to create flood plains, since Supremacy is supposed to be the most energy hungry of the three affinities.

 

[Seek]

In addition to the typical requirements (rivers, oceans, mountains), it would be great to get some mid- or late-game buildings that reward settling adjacent to craters and canyons. I'd like to see some sort of interaction with miasma also, I find it curious that it has no effect on the economy.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

In addition to the typical requirements (rivers, oceans, mountains), it would be great to get some mid- or late-game buildings that reward settling adjacent to craters and canyons. I'd like to see some sort of interaction with miasma also, I find it curious that it has no effect on the economy.

It has some small interaction seen already
1. no Terrascapes on miasma
2. no trade routes through miasma (hopefully removed once your trade units heal in miasma)

Now.. there is also the possibility that Harmony may get economic benefits for miasma at some higher level

 

[omniclast]

have yet to see offshore oil though so I suspect it might not be in

We've seen what looks lime offshore oil in several screencaps. There is some in Madjinn's teaser screencap in the live stream announcement thread.

Would like to see geothermal be an offshore resource as well.

 

[Seek]

It has some small interaction seen already
1. no Terrascapes on miasma
2. no trade routes through miasma (hopefully removed once your trade units heal in miasma)

Now.. there is also the possibility that Harmony may get economic benefits for miasma at some higher level

I knew about 2, but not 1, thanks. It just seems odd that you can assign pop to tiles with miasma without penalty. I'm guessing they started with that but it was too limiting.

Yes, a high level harmony building would be perfect for this.

 

[proftc]

I knew about 2, but not 1, thanks. It just seems odd that you can assign pop to tiles with miasma without penalty. I'm guessing they started with that but it was too limiting.

Yes, a high level harmony building would be perfect for this.

There's also the pseudo-limit of probably not being able to finish a building before your worker dies unless you've taken the branch that gives workers miasma immunity.

 

[Alkyon]

We've seen what looks lime offshore oil in several screencaps. There is some in Madjinn's teaser screencap in the live stream announcement thread.

Would like to see geothermal be an offshore resource as well.

I was just about to say you were wrong, but I just now checked Mad Djinn's pictures just to make sure. Sure enough in "Say Hello to his Little Friends" there's an offshore deposit.

link for huge