Religion and can't upgrade

[jeb1000]

I just finished my 4th game - got beat by China with religion. I was ahead in points, leading in 2 out of the 4 areas, 2nd in the 3rd - was 6th in religion. I won my 2nd and 3rd games - 3rd by a landslide, controlled 3 out of 4 areas for almost all the game.

In my first 3 games I took cities and CS - in this 4th game I made it a point to not battle anyone all the way to a little over turn 350. At that point, it became obvious that China was taking religion to all over the board - his missionaries where like ants running all over the place so I went on the attack but too late.

First, I obviously don't understand about religion. I lost my first game to religion but at least in that game I was able to declare a religion and could have made missionaries, etc., if I had wanted. In the next 3 games I was never asked to make a religion and never had missionaries, etc., as one of the options. This even though I had made it almost all the way through to the end of the tree options and built most all of the religion items. In my 4th game I made it a point to do so and the same result.

Now, toward the end of this, my 4th game, I had units come up with the "upgrade" option and did so - but on 4 units, no matter how I tried I could not get these units to upgrade. I even sent them back to friendly territory to see it that would help - it did not.

A bug, maybe? Something I don't understand about how to click on upgrade and then select which upgrade I want?

 

[AriochIV]

Religions can only be founded by Great Prophets, and there are a limited number; once they are claimed, no more religions can be founded. On the harder levels, especially against certain religion-focused opponents, you have to really rush for religion or you won't be able to found one.

You can use Apostles to add beliefs to a religion, but not if you haven't founded one.

 

[Disgustipated]

Religion requires you to be a little more proactive, it's not as passive as in Civ5. You aren't guaranteed a religion. Just building the buildings may not be enough. Research astrology early, get a holy site and shrine up ASAP. I feel these are more reliable than trying to build Stonehenge. After getting these built, be sure to check the Great people page. This is important since faith per turn doesn't give you religion, great prophet points gives you a religion. Look under great prophet, and see if you are at least leading in great prophet points per turn. You can check the religions page to see how many religions are still available. There is also a social policy to give you another +2 great prophet points per turn. That should get you there.

Not sure about the promotion problem. You sure they were Apostles? Missionaries won't get promotions.

Spreading your religion to your own cities should also be more proactive. Although choosing the belief to give adjacent cities more spreading power helps, I usually choose this option. This should prevent you from losing to a religious loss. But it can be dicey while you are saving up faith points for apostles to enhance your religion (it can be enhanced twice using Apostles) and then saving up even more for an Apostle to declare an inquisition. Keep in mind Apostles have several functions in this game. First to improve (enhance) your religion 2 times. Second is to declare an inquisition allowing you to build inquisitors. Third they can be used to spread religion to your cities or opponent cities (or city states). Fourth they can be used in religious combat (if you need to heal them park them on or next to a holy site for a few turns).

My biggest chance to "lose" my cities is when I'm saving up for Apostles to improve my religion and then for the inquisition. I'm not building missionaries during this time and the AI may have a lot.

 

[Browd]

On the upgrade issue, I read the OP as raising an issue separate from his religion problems (as others have noted, there is no upgrade concept applicable to religious units). And I assume he is using the word "upgrade" in the way meant by the game -- upgrade a unit from one type of unit to a new type of unit, rather than earning a promotion for a unit. Assuming the OP is referring to difficulties with upgrading military units:

If the upgrade is into a type of unit that requires a strategic resource (e.g., warrior upgrades to a swordsman, which requires Iron; swordsman upgrades to musketman, which requires Niter), you can only upgrade if you have at least one improved copy of that resource in your empire (either you have an improved tile with that resource in one of your cities, or you have traded for a copy from another civ or have obtained a copy by being Suzerain of a city-state that has improved the resource). In any event, you can only upgrade units in your own territory.

 

[jeb1000]

Sorry I was not clear - it was a promotion I could not get 4 units to do. All the others I could and I promoted some others during the same time I could not do those 4. I don't remember what type units they were but they were not all the same. I did upgrade several canons during this time. I was attacking a CS at the time, if this has anything to do with it.

I am new to the game - never played the earlier Civ games so all this is a big learning curve for me. What I now get is that religion is a game within a game and if you don't go after it at the start you are out of luck as there is no way to catch up later. Seems strange that they would not give you an option to do so.

China was on a different island than I - in fact, all the other Civ were on the other island, none on mine. So by the time I realized that China had converted almost every other city on that island and was now coming to mine I thought my only possibility was to defeat them. My first problem was that I had made them a friend and could find no way to attack them so I started taking CS. Later, I was able to attack them so I guess this friend thing has a time - or turn - limit on it. Did a search but couldn't find anything on it.

 

[Funababbitt]

I've never particularly liked religion. Like "tourism" it's more about spamming. I thought with Civ 6 Religion might be OK and I did manage to win a few games ignoring religion. Then I found that despite putting a campus in almost every city, I was trailing because I had no religion. I started building Holy Sites, which really hampered my preferred strategy. Because of the limitations placed on districts, I was able to build only two, out of seven cities, which I upgraded as quickly as possible. By the end of the Renaissance, my religion was completely overwhelmed by an invasion of missionaries, pouring over my cities like lice - four five and six at a time. I suspected the AI must be building Holy Sites in every city but yikes - how boring.The game is supposed to be strategy more than just spamming missionaries or archeologists. I didn't find it interesting in the least. It was not the game I came to play. Since then, I have unchecked Religious Victory. I also don't play Civs where "faith" is a major bonus component, either. For me, Civ 6 has made Religion worse than ever.

 

[Halcyan2]

Some other things about religion:

1. At first, Faith will get you a Pantheon. But you need Great Prophet points (or to build Stonehenge) to get a Great Prophet which will let you found a religion. Great Prophet points are mainly obtained from Holy Sites, Holy Site buildings, and the Revelation Wild Card policy. Holy Sites require the Astronomy tech (Eureka is to find a natural wonder). Revelation requires the Mysticism civic (Inspiration is to found a pantheon) but unless you are Greece or Poland, you need to wait until Political Philosophy and changing your government before you can use a Wildcard policy.

2. When you found your Religion, you have to choose your Follower belief. Then you get to choose a second belief, which can be either a Worship building, Founder, or Enhancer belief. The AI always seems to choose a Worship building as their second belief, but you can technically choose something different.

3. To make missionaries you need a Holy Site AND a shrine. This is a pretty big issue if you got your religion from Stonehenge. That usually means you won't be able to spread it until you get a Holy Site up and running. (In a recent King game, AI Gandhi got Stonehenge early but he didn't build a Holy Site until VERY late, so his religion did not do so well). Once you got your Holy Site built, you still need a Shrine.

4. To make apostles, you need to have a Holy Site with a Temple. Temples require the Theology civic (Inspiration is to found a religion). You also get 2 free apostles when you build the Mahabodhi Temple, but that also requires a Holy Site with a Temple. You can use up to 2 apostles to get the last 2 beliefs of your religion. You can also use an apostle to launch an Inquisition.

5. To build an inquisitor, you need to have a Holy Site with a Temple, and you previously need to have used an apostle to launch an Inquisition.

Hope this helps!

 

[jeb1000]

Tks, all - this whole religion thing seems broken to me but I am new to Civ so have nothing to go back to.

1- it is completely immune to anything else in the game except religious things.
2- if you get behind there is no way to catch up.,
3- the only thing in the game where there are only a few to use and when they are gone you are out of luck.

I have been going to single player and start game so did not know you could delete it in a game.

Question, if one notices that a Civ is playing religion and you capture their city or all of their cities, do you get all those converts and missionaries, etc? What if they are a different religion than your capital?

Is that the only power you have against religion - going to war and taking their cities or take them out?

Take care and a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all - we will need all the help we can get for the next few years.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Tks, all - this whole religion thing seems broken to me but I am new to Civ so have nothing to go back to.

1- it is completely immune to anything else in the game except religious things

Not true..military units kill religious ones If you are at war.

Also, Anyone can buy religious units with faith in a city that
-has a holy site and the appropriate building
-has a religion (the religious units will be of that religion)

 

[jeb1000]

"Not true..military units kill religious ones If you are at war."
Was not aware of this - since I could not kill them normally I have not tried while at war.

"-has a religion (the religious units will be of that religion)"
If they are of that city's religion then they would be credited to the other Civ, right? If so, why would ever want to do so?

 

[liv]

If that civ is dead then there is no credit
You could do that do prevent someone else from winning a religious victory

 

[Halcyan2]

1- it is completely immune to anything else in the game except religious things.
2- if you get behind there is no way to catch up.,
3- the only thing in the game where there are only a few to use and when they are gone you are out of luck.

A cheesy thing (exploit) you can do to prevent an imminent Religious Victory by an opponent is to found a lot of new cities, preferably far away from the religion so it doesn't spread. Alternatively, you can start giving away cities to the other AI's. Either found new cities and give it to the AI's so that they aren't fully converted OR give away converted cities that you control to bring your threshold below 50%.

 

[jeb1000]

Tks, all - appreciate it.

Into my 5th game now and it started off with a bang. Within 35 turns both China and Spain declared war on me - neither with in the area of my island that I had cleared so had not a clue where they were. With 2 scouts out, finally found them, attacked and defeated them so 2 Civs gone from the game.

Doesn't seem fair that someone attacked you that you can't even see - I had not bothered anyone.

And as I send my scouts out I have never seen so many barbarian camps as is around the map - they are everywhere. So far, 5 have been on my island alone.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Barbarian camps spawn where no one has visibility (that is, tiles where no unit in any Civ can see it). It's good to spread some low-maintenance units (such as Warriors and Archers) around when you're not at war, so that no Barbarian Camp spawn near you.

And yes, people will DoW you if you look weak enough, they covet your lands, or they're unhappy with you. Usually they use the Joint War casus belli, which is a formal war and reduce warmonger penalties. But I don't find it unfair that they declare war when you don't know where they are, because I often do it against them.

 

[Halcyan2]

Barbarian camps spawn where no one has visibility (that is, tiles where no unit in any Civ can see it). It's good to spread some low-maintenance units (such as Warriors and Archers) around when you're not at war, so that no Barbarian Camp spawn near you.

And yes, people will DoW you if you look weak enough, they covet your lands, or they're unhappy with you. Usually they use the Joint War casus belli, which is a formal war and reduce warmonger penalties. But I don't find it unfair that they declare war when you don't know where they are, because I often do it against them.

While it is fine that you can declare war when you don't know where they are, it was a bigger problem when a major civilization that you haven't even met would enter into a joint war with you. They don't even know you and you are already at war with them!

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

While it is fine that you can declare war when you don't know where they are, it was a bigger problem when a major civilization that you haven't even met would enter into a joint war with you. They don't even know you and you are already at war with them!

I think that you can't declare a Joint War if both hasn't met you yet. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[jeb1000]

I will have to look again but if a Civ is not showing on the map you have explored and one of their faces are not showing up in the right corner, how could declare war on them?

 

[Halcyan2]

I think that you can't declare a Joint War if both hasn't met you yet. Can anyone confirm this?

In some of my earlier games (before recent patches), I would get Joint Wars against me.

What would happen is that a Civ that I met and a Civ that I didn't meet would jointly declare war against me. I would get the normal declaration screen form the Civ that I met, but then I would get my own leader's screen declaring war (against myself). Later on, when I meet that Civ, I would get the initial greeting screen, but then I would be at war with them. However, I could usually make peace pretty quickly since usually that was more than 10 turns later.

So yes, the AI could declare Joint Wars against you if one of them had not yet met you!

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Strangely enough, I couldn't suggest it until the other AI had met the poor victim. But that was a while ago, I might be mistaken.