Not easy to see where it will end up with the current published material.
What you see now is the preparation phase of a proper manual.
All the current info will be split up - nothing like it is now.
This is just the first step in a 10 step project.
Will take weeks until it will come to fruition, trust me.
Will be extremely easy to edit once it is all set up.
Repeat training works
In fact everything in the teacher list works.
The only issue is that if you have all units set to 0 and you want to repeat build multiple units, only the first one will increase to 1. Once that one is build all of them will change to 1 and then behave as intended. The design makes this issue rather tricky to fix and I decided against even trying as I consider it a minor issue. Fixed
A bigger issue is the text. I got a writer's block or something
Any ideas on what to write on top of the window?
Also is the repeat help popup understandable?
If it's possible to decrease the font size a point or two, or move the gold column rightward and text leftward slightly, then all the text could become visible. (or maybe just increase the window width to more of the overall screen, since there are some long names)
The only issue is that if you have all units set to 0 and you want to repeat build multiple units, only the first one will increase to 1. Once that one is build all of them will change to 1 and then behave as intended.
This is the skills this colony's school can handle
Reveals which teachers are missing (needed in headline?)
Select units to be trained
Maybe hint the mouseover help on the unit icons to get unit names
Tell that you still need to put students into the school manually (maybe obvious to most people, but not everybody)
The last one gave me an idea. Would it be useful to automatically add new students from outside the colony when one graduates? Naturally this should be an on/off switch.
I have no idea how hard that would be to code, but maybe it would be worth investigating.
Its usefulness is really very low for me.
(Maybe it is more useful for beginners with Civ4Col. )
A. The overview of available specializations and the price to educate.
--> Well ok, why not.
B. Being able to create a list of specializations.
--> More or less useless to me.
1. I simply educate normal colonists and when their education is over, I choose the specialization that fits my needs the most at the current situation.
I am usually not really able to plan that ahead x turns, because of immigration, learning by doing, native training, ...
2. Usually I would train them in a very random order.
e.g. 1 Carpenter, then 1 Statesman, then 1 Preacher, then 1 Tobacco Planter, then 1 Statesman again
I would almost never want to train 3 Statesmen, then 4 Farmers, then 5 Preachers.
3. You need to go to the city anyways to put the new Specialist to his profession or to send him to some other destination.
Summary:
I am ok with adding the Overview list to the "main line" of RaR.
I am not ok with the rest of this, because I consider it useless and don't want to add useless code, which might cause problems (bugs or performance) and needs to be maintained.
Sorry, if my feedback sounds a bit harsh.
(Just trying to give honest feedback.)
But of course, you can do whatever you like in your own work.
So if you want to publish this yourself with the possibility to create such a "edcuation list", there is nothing that speaks against it.
Well yes, it is probably correct, that this might cause problems in some Types of Multiplayer games that use a network.
(It is totally unproblematic for Hot-Seat or PBEM.)
1. It is probably a good idea to collect further bugfixes and improvements for a couple of weeks and release it then.
But there is no need to hurry here.
2. I personally have decided quite a while ago to end my time as a public (and publishing) modder and become a private modder again.
(I simply don't have the time to further drive this project as I used to over the last 2 years.)
I will still be around and keep contact to my modding friends though.
Maybe (and this is a big maybe) I will create further features and share them through my SVN with these modding friends.
(I still have some prototypes lying around but my time is really very limited.)
If they will decide to use them in their own work and publish them that is of course ok for me.
3. I can't speak for the rest of the team.
Maybe some of the old team members will continue the Religion and Revolution project.
4. Everybody else is free to create ModMods of Religion and Revolution.
I would actually really be happy to see some of those.
These would technically be new projects of course.
Maybe even new teams might form.
------------
Summary:
Within the next weeks, we will collect further improvements and bugfixes.
These will be published of course.
After this is done, I will not be a public (/publishing) modder anymore but become a private modder again.
(I will simply stay around and keep in contact but I will probably be modding only very little.)
If the rest of the team should decide to continue Religion and Revolution, the project would simply continue.
Otherwise anybody else is free to create ModMods. (Technically new projects.)
------------
I wish good luck and a lot of fun to all modders out there.
But I will follow the example of most of my old modding friends and retire to make space for the younger modders.
B. Being able to create a list of specializations.
--> More or less useless to me.
1. I simply educate normal colonists and when their education is over, I choose the specialization that fits my needs the most at the current situation.
I am usually not really able to plan that ahead x turns, because of immigration, learning by doing, native training, ...
2. Usually I would train them in a very random order.
e.g. 1 Carpenter, then 1 Statesman, then 1 Preacher, then 1 Tobacco Planter, then 1 Statesman again
I would almost never want to train 3 Statesmen, then 4 Farmers, then 5 Preachers.
3. You need to go to the city anyways to put the new Specialist to his profession or to send him to some other destination.
Looks to me like you are talking about early in the game, in which case I somewhat agree. However this is a really nice tool for later in the game where a lot goes on at once. I have managed several times to make too many of a certain kind of units because I wasn't paying enough attention (like 3 ore miners instead of 2). I plan to train then and then I pay attention to the pirate blocking my port or whatever. There is also the case with right numbers, wrong place.
Repeat is also useful. In my last big game I ended up with a great university where it would have made sense to repeat build soldiers. Other units were trained at universities elsewhere. (something about gathering horses and weapons where the soldiers were trained). Also I added free colonists without entering the colony as I had no need to do so.
As for #2: if you request that, then it will deliver them in random order. Besides those numbers are rather big if you care about order.
Also if you don't want to use it, then don't. It will not change the current education popup unless you actually order it to train some units.
It's my impression that some of us like this feature quite a lot.
I am ok with adding the Overview list to the "main line" of RaR.
I am not ok with the rest of this, because I consider it useless and don't want to add useless code, which might cause problems (bugs or performance) and needs to be maintained.
But of course, you can do whatever you like in your own work.
So if you want to publish this yourself with the possibility to create such a "edcuation list", there is nothing that speaks against it.
1. It is probably a good idea to collect further bugfixes and improvements for a couple of weeks and release it then.
But there is no need to hurry here.
2. I personally have decided quite a while ago to end my time as a public (and publishing) modder and become a private modder again.
(I simply don't have the time to further drive this project as I used to over the last 2 years.)
I was under the impression that no one was "in charge" of this mod, it was simply a collection of modders - that was what I was told from the beginning.
But I might have misunderstood.
Is this a "copyrighted" mod? If improvements are to be made I get the feeling that R&R is somehow "owned" by a select few. Am I right?
Feels strange if a continuation of this mod will have to change the name from R&R.
What are Schmiddie and Rays view on this?
Just a need for clarification here
I have the exact same feeling - late game a lot is going on.
To be able to plan ahead is the very nature of a strategy game for me - I always plan at least 20 to 30 turns ahead if not more - we all play games differently I guess.
As when it comes to extending the features and continue coding I feel you have come at exactly the right time. Someone to carry on the project and stimulate other modders. It gives me the motivation to continue work at least.
Well ok, in lategame, this might get useful for some player styles.
@Nightinggale:
Once you have finished your version and don't find any bugs in your tests, upload it to SVN.
We will publish it then, once we are ready to make another release.
As long as you are not "beaming" units from other cities I am ok with that.
About the "future of RaR":
Summarizing a few points:
Spoiler:
1. There is no single person in charge of the complete "main mod".
But the (core-)mod-team does have certain rights about the mod (especially the name) and may decide how to handle it.
Also, there are some people in the mod, that have taken responsibility for certain topics (since they have proven to be very skilled in these).
2. We have always said, that we don't mind people creating modmods.
Acutally we would be happy to see this happen at some point.
It is totally normal that people picking up another mod as a modmod, give that new project a new name.
If there are 10 people creating modmods, should they all call it like the original mod ?
3. Actually there are copyrighted parts in this mod.
e.g. the music of René Osmanczyk which we are simply allowed to use.
We cannot decide that anybody else may simply use or publish that as well.
But if a new modmod is starting I could clarify these things.
Compromise:
Let us see how this will develop over the next weeks.
Maybe some people from the (core-)team will decide to continue the main project Religion and Revolution and build up a new team again.
--> Religion and Revolution will simply continue.
Maybe we will see that the nobody from the old team is interested to continue this project but there are new modders that are.
--> I would really appreciate if these new modders create a modmod (new project with new name) then.
Maybe we will see that there is no real interest of modders to work on a common project for Religion and Revolution that is supposed to be published at all.
--> Basically people will create private modmods.
Everybody ok with that ?
Comment:
Spoiler:
At the moment there is one single modder (Nightinggale) who told that he is interested to continuously work on this project.
I really appreciate that, but that is by far not what I would consider sufficient to continue the main projectReligion and Revolution.
If a real team should form, we might discuss on another basis though ...
Some time ago I had described here, what I was dreaming about when thinking of a big modding team.
But as I said, that was only dreaming ...
Well ok, in lategame, this might get useful for some player styles.
@Nightinggale:
Once you have finished your version and don't find any bugs in your tests, upload it to SVN.
We will publish it then, once we are ready to make another release.
As long as you are not "beaming" units from other cities I am ok with that.
About the "future of RaR":
Summarizing a few points:
Spoiler:
1. There is no single person in charge of the complete "main mod".
But the (core-)mod-team does have certain rights about the mod (especially the name) and may decide how to handle it.
Also, there are some people in the mod, that have taken responsibility for certain topics (since they have proven to be very skilled in these).
2. We have always said, that we don't mind people creating modmods.
Acutally we would be happy to see this happen at some point.
It is totally normal that people picking up another mod as a modmod, give that new project a new name.
If there are 10 people creating modmods, should they all call it like the original mod ?
3. Actually there are copyrighted parts in this mod.
e.g. the music of René Osmanczyk which we are simply allowed to use.
We cannot decide that anybody else may simply use or publish that as well.
But if a new modmod is starting I could clarify these things.
Compromise:
Let us see how this will develop over the next weeks.
Maybe some people from the (core-)team will decide to continue the main project Religion and Revolution and build up a new team again.
--> Religion and Revolution will simply continue.
Maybe we will see that the nobody from the old team is interested to continue this project but there are new modders that are.
--> I would really appreciate if these new modders create a modmod (new project with new name) then.
Maybe we will see that there is no real interest of modders to work on a common project for Religion and Revolution that is supposed to be published at all.
--> Basically people will create private modmods.
Everybody ok with that ?
Comment:
Spoiler:
At the moment there is one single modder (Nightinggale) who told that he is interested to continuously work on this project.
I really appreciate that, but that is by far not what I would consider sufficient to continue the main projectReligion and Revolution.
If a real team should form, we might discuss on another basis though ...
Some time ago I had described here, what I was dreaming about when thinking of a big modding team.
But as I said, that was only dreaming ...
Just for the record: I have no intension of creating a "megamod", like what RaR is to TAC, at least not alone. What I might do is what I have done so far, which is to pinpoint stuff which could annoy me while playing and fix those issues. Basically that is to get more useful output from the interface and automate repetitive tasks.
This is basically the level I would keep it at if I end up doing anything at all on my own. Also I'm not sure I will even do anything at all.
Also I can't draw, which really puts a stop to making new stuff if nobody else will/can. I sucks if I made clever code hidden behind a sprite so bad that people go
It would be a whole different story if I end up not being alone.
So ok, then it seems as if there are currently simply not enough modders interested and skilled enough to continue the "megamod" Religion and Revolution.
However, I still don't see the problem, that single improvements or additions might be published as addons or bigger packages as modmods.
But as I said:
Let us simply see how things develop within the next weeks.
We will simply collect further improvements and bugfixes in that time and then publish it.
I have a few ideas I would like feedback on before even starting, if I start at all.
Remove checkbox and spinbox from yields in custom house, which can't be sold anyway (food, lumber, stone).
Make the school learn professions from experts even when no students are assigned.
Is this important enough to justify changing the code and potentially add bugs?
Improved traderoute feeder service.
A 3rd checkbox for each yield, which does the following:
enables import if yield is less than 50% of threshold.
disables import if yield is greater than 100% of threshold.
I'm not sure how often this should be checked, but at least once every turn.
Domestic advisor update.
Native screen could do with a column of what units they train. It would also be nice if you could doubleclick on a settlement and then it would return to the map and center on that settlements.
I'm seriously considering starting on 3. I suspect it would use wagon trains more efficiently for delivering stuff like lumber to forestless settlements without risking the scenario where all receivers are full and more than half of the wagon trains still carry lumber to them.
3. Improved traderoute feeder service.
A 3rd checkbox for each yield, which does the following:
enables import if yield is less than 50% of threshold.
disables import if yield is greater than 100% of threshold.
I'm not sure how often this should be checked, but at least once every turn.
I'm using that solution, but it has a nasty pitfall which I have encountered several times.
Imagine this scenario. You have colonies A and B, which imports lumber as they both use 6 each turn without producing anything themselves. Both are set to 100 and import and export.
A wagon train unloads in A. Now it has 180 and 80 is taken to B. However B already had 94, which means it now has 168 when the wagon train arrives the next turn. It will then move 68 lumber to A. Arriving at A, it notices 94 lumber at B and.... you get the idea.
It gets even worse if another wagon train unloads lumber once in a while because the the A-B route can jam a wagon train forever.
A a lumber surplus accumulates in the wagon trains and not the colonies, it will not produce a warning about overflowing. Instead you will notice other stuff not being transported anymore and building more wagon trains only helps for a short while. The worst I had of this issue is 20 wagon trains stuck with lumber out of 30. I know I should have noticed, but this is the point, it was hiding the fact from me until I wondered where the capacity went and at that time it had already hurt me as I lost goods they should have carried.
Turning off export solves this issue, but then you risk uneven distribution, possibly completely avoiding some colonies. No good either.
The solution, which is likely what people would do for real is to import only (why export something you need and can't produce?) and then order more when you are low on stock. There is a name for behavior like this, which is hysteresis.
This should once and for all kill the loops in the feeder service. Also it is highly likely that wagon trains are used more efficiently as yields have time to pile up before being transported. No more moving 6 units each turn from one colony while skipping another colony.
Loops as you are discribing is bad usage of Transportation System to my opinion.
I usually only have the following situations:
(Considering a specific Yield X in a city.)
1. City A imports Yield X from City B. (Import)
2. City A exports Yield X to City B. (Export)
3. City A imports Yield X from City B to later export it to City C. (Storage Station)
I never have what you described:
4. City A exports Yield X to City B and imports Yield X from the same City B.
----------
Sorry, maybe I simply don't get it.
But it sounds like trying to fix a hypothetical problem that does not exist if Transportation System is used in a good way.
(Thus this is simply making the feature and the logic more complicated for me.)
Enlighten me if I'm wrong but I only see two scenarios for feeders with the current transport system.
Setup A and B has a building, which consumes yield X. Other colonies produces X and are all set to export only.
Case 1:
A and B are both set to import and not export.
Wagon trains may decide to give everything to A while the building in B stalls due to lack of X.
Case 2:
A and B are both set to import and export.
The wagon trains overloads A and then they move some from A to B.
Risk of loop.
If there is some magic setup. which delivers fine to both A and B with the current system, then I would like to know how.
I can just tell you, that the Transportation System (which is still unchanged from TAC) works fine for me.
I usually have several automated transports that supply my mega-cities with raw materials from my smaller cities.
(Each small city usually only has one mega-city it supplies.)
And some of these mega-cities exchange produced goods.
(e.g. one delivers Salt to the other and the other delivers Coffee in return.)
Each transport is assigned to a clear route and not to several routes.
(A to B and backwards B to A.)
And yes, in some cases, I also use manually controlled Transports.
Also I try to have specialized cities and not to produce everything everywhere.
Sorry but I really don't see where your additional checkbox is needed and that it would make the mod better.
1. It is hard to explain.
2. All experienced TAC and RaR players got used to the current system.
3. It adds additional and complicated logic.
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