Religion gone from Civ V is a Blessing

[Isikien]

Religion?

I'd be lying if I missed its ommision entirely. Religious tornado tag teams made for interesting games at times, with one religious block often declaring massively on the other. It was very much central to the early game diplomacy, and its effect diminished as you got closer and closer to the modern era, unless your main trading partner was a zealot such as Justy or Isabella.

The buildings that religion used were also interesting, with the exception of the AP, which was basically an earlier and more violent UN, and only served to chuck people into massive wars for no reason. But then again it wasn't so bad when you looked at the bigger picture, after all, the AP wasn't a constant spanner in the works.

It was a core component of the game so I can understand why it would be missed

 

[JLoZeppeli]

Where? I'm at my seven game and i don't find it, i want spread Christianity into my empire but i don't find the option... Help me etipton3, how can i found it?

 

[etipton3]

I'm glad Religion is out of this game, that's for sure

Yes most are in favor of the change, the only ones that aren't are the ones having trouble trying to exploit AI in CIV V. Personally I thought CIV IV sucked compared to CIV III, but thats IMO, however CIV V is the best in the series by far.

 

[JLoZeppeli]

I win on emperor, so i don't need to exploit Civ V, at most i need it to improve the difficult that is a little downgraded... Ops streamlined...

 

[etipton3]

I win on emperor, so i don't need to exploit Civ V, at most i need it to improve the difficult that is a little downgraded... Ops streamlined...

Maybe its time to quit whining, suck up the $50 you lost on buying the game and go back to IV. You'll find your busted broken religion there and you can continue playing the same thing over and over. "look at me i'm good at civ IV, I have neat tatics, I cant stand change, YAY, bring back CIV IV.2" HAHAHA, my $50 went to good use

Moderator Action: If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. Thanks.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[SlothMD]

Yes most are in favor of the change, the only ones that aren't are the ones having trouble trying to exploit AI in CIV V. Personally I thought CIV IV sucked compared to CIV III, but thats IMO, however CIV V is the best in the series by far.

My only real complaint about III was that it had no Fantastic Worlds (and multi-maps)

 

[Maniacal]

I'm pretty sick of the religion in Civ4 to be honest, glad its gone from Civ5, one more thing to look forward too when I have time to buy and play it.

Always getting jehovah witnesses for neighbours was irritating as hell.

Especially when i ended up forgetting to put choose your religion and got stuck if christianity >_<

 

[JLoZeppeli]

Maybe its time to quit whining, suck up the $50 you lost on buying the game and go back to IV. You'll find your busted broken religion there and you can continue playing the same thing over and over. "look at me i'm good at civ IV, I have neat tatics, I cant stand change, YAY, bring back CIV IV.2" HAHAHA, my $50 went to good use

Please refrain from this childish attemp to flame, it's a civil discussion, we don't need this type of "nice" addittion...

Moderator Action: Just as a reminder, please don't respond to flames, just report them, thanks.

 

[QuixotesGhost]

Alright - I have to mention this now, since "religion and espionage" is a pet topic of mine. I notice, SlothMD, that you pursue religion-heavy strats yet don't say a single thing about espionage.

Alright. If you control the holy city of a religion (might also have to be your state religion) which is present in a target city you get a -15% modifier for espionage missions. Additionally, if your state religion is different than the target civ and it's present in the target city you get another -25% modifier. The way these and other modifiers stack together allows you to get absolutely insane costs for espionage missions - we're talking about 15-20% of cost. If there's one facet of religion that can be said to be an "exploit" - it's that right there, but not really since setting up that situation requires signifigant investment and forethought.

Next time you load up Civ4, SlothMD, I suggest you give espionage a shot with your religion strat - you'll be plesantly suprised. But perhaps with more reasonable settings? Epic speed, I find, is much more balanced and still gives the same general feel as Marathon.

 

[zonk]

POST DELETED, issue taken offline

 

[etipton3]

POST DELETED, issue taken offline

Guess they didnt like it

 

[JECTX]

Interesting that you list only internal issues, not international ones. If only somebody had posted a detailed post earlier in the thread pointing out that one of the major issues with Civ IV religion was, in fact, that it pretty much had only international repercussions, not internal ones...

Why is it wrong to have international repercussions? If you base your assertion that religion was broken because it had too many international repercussions then you have to consider issues going on currently that represent this. Hindus and Muslims get along great huh? India and Pakistan have extreme difficulty keeping peace as cross border religious attacks keep occurring. Jews and Muslims haven't had any problems getting along? Albeit the Israeli problem started with a forced relocation the extent to which the violence has persisted suggests religion has a large effect on international issues. Had there been nothing holy about that land yes there would have been great resentment, but no there would not be such a banding together of nations on either side of the conflict (hint: Muslim nations tend to side against Israel, and by tend I mean they all side against Israel). This clear international religious division gets replicated in Civ IV's religion mechanic. You can not find that same kind of dividing force in Civ V.

 

[SlothMD]

Alright - I have to mention this now, since "religion and espionage" is a pet topic of mine. I notice, SlothMD, that you pursue religion-heavy strats yet don't say a single thing about espionage.

To be honest, I keep forgetting about the espionage unless I'm actually playing.

 

[SlothMD]

Why is it wrong to have international repercussions?

Again, the problem isn't that there are international repercussions, it is that there are *only* international repercussions, when, irl, most religious-driven politics are internal.

India and Pakistan have extreme difficulty keeping peace as cross border religious attacks keep occurring.

Those attacks aren't especially religious, btw. They are primarily about control of Kashmir, and not for especially religious reasons.

(hint: Muslim nations tend to side against Israel, and by tend I mean they all side against Israel).

It may surprise you to learn this, but Turkey is an important ally of Israel, and Jordan and Egypt both have normal relations with Israel. FYI, all three are muslim nations.

It may also surprise you to learn that the issues surrounding Israel have a lot less to do with religion than they do about cultural issues and the need for pyramidal societies to focus internal pressures outward toward the nearest convenient alien other.

 

[JLoZeppeli]

Please religion today is not more a reason of war almost...

It was in the past, and that is... So if someone denies that, i have my knowledge to share if it interest to you. We can start from the repression of cults in Rome, the influence of mazdeism in the fundation of Persian empire, or the war waged by Jewish people against the Filisteis (glorified even it the sacred jewish book the ancient testament)...

Under the roman empire after the persecution of christianity, the emperor Teodosius declared Christianity the only religion permitted. After that, with the Constitutum Costantini, a false document forged by the Church as proved by Lorenzo Valla in XII sec., the Pope came into possession as monarch of a large territory, with an his own army...

If you want i can continue

 

[logintime]

Yes most are in favor of the change,

your opinion, which is not fact. I, for one, greatly miss religion, as do a good deal of people.

the only ones that aren't are the ones having trouble trying to exploit AI in CIV V.

You are..... joking, right? The AI is so embarrassingly bad in Civ5 it is hard NOT to find a way to exploit it.

however CIV V is the best in the series by far.

Again, your opinion, not fact. And a simple glance through this forum shows a very large number of people would disagree with you.

 

[Misterboy]

Do you understand that the perception of religion today is way different than in the medieval era? How can you make a statement on modern terrorism to counter the importance of religion in the history and as a reason of war? You need to open not middle school books, please... So you will learn of the Catars, or the war waged by Spain vs Elizabeth, most of it was caused by the fervent devotion (and crazyness) of the King of Spain. Or the crusaders, or the French religion wars, or the war against muslim waged by Charles Magne, i can go on as you want, until the war of the Teotonic Order versus pagans of Lituany. And i not speak of buddhish wars, that are quite a lot...

Of course there are also political reason behind, but denying that is totally wrong, please refrain from repeat this mistake...

Wars are almost *always* fought in the "name" of religion. But that's rarely the root cause. People want land/money/power. Religion makes a good excuse to rationalize the desire for other things. Human nature... it's fascinating if you care to look into it.

But my example was probably more controversial than I intended. My *point* was to argue that although most try to frame the current conflict as a religious one, it is most assuredly not. That's what happens. We're good at using religion as an excuse to cover other motives.

And I do agree that in many ways the modern view of religion is different from bygone days. I'd love to agree with any other self evident postulations you'd care to propose.

If you would like to continue taking the world at face value, feel free. But I suppose I would have to warn you not to "repeat this mistake".

 

[Horizons]

Religion will be reintroduced at some point either in a DLC pack/expansion pack/mod and it will be used as a mechanism for exploiting city-states.

You will be able to use religion to gain influence over other city-states and make money from them, if you convert them to your faith.

 

[Misterboy]

Religion will be reintroduced at some point either in a DLC pack/expansion pack/mod and it will be used as a mechanism for exploiting city-states.

You will be able to use religion to gain influence over other city-states and make money from them, if you convert them to your faith.

Is this an educated guess, or do you have some specific reason(s) to assert this.

BTW, I think you're probably right. I'm just hoping you have more than your astute observation of game mechanics to back up the claim.

And while I am *glad* religion as was present in Civ 4 is gone from Civ 5, I really do hope they bring it back in. I loved the idea of it being there. Can't wait to see where they take Civ 5 next. They fixed so many core problems, that the foundation they've created will serve us all very well.

 

[JLoZeppeli]

Wars are almost *always* fought in the "name" of religion. But that's rarely the root cause. People want land/money/power. Religion makes a good excuse to rationalize the desire for other things. Human nature... it's fascinating if you care to look into it.

But my example was probably more controversial than I intended. My *point* was to argue that although most try to frame the current conflict as a religious one, it is most assuredly not. That's what happens. We're good at using religion as an excuse to cover other motives.

And I do agree that in many ways the modern view of religion is different from bygone days. I'd love to agree with any other self evident postulations you'd care to propose.

If you would like to continue taking the world at face value, feel free. But I suppose I would have to warn you not to "repeat this mistake".

So do you think that the Pope as monarch of Pontifician state is not important at all for history, as an example? As excuse or not, religion is itself a reason of wars, as Franco Cardini, Jacques Le Goff and other historians can prove you...

If you want i can suggest some books of medieval historians... You could learn a lot about the importance of religion in history, the religious wars and such other things.