Monasteries are required to build missionaries unless Org Rel is one of your civics. Yet once you discover Sci Meth, monasteries become obsolete, so unless your religious civic is Org Rel, you can't build missionaries in the late game. I know the upkeep for Org Rel is high, but the benefits are enormous. I *never, ever* build monasteries; in the early game I tend to beeline to Monotheism, adopt Org Rel, hurry a few missionaries, & send them to my rivals before they convert to a religion other than my state rel. Then I spread my rel to my own cities so I can build temples, hire priests & generate Great Prophets. I tend to play at Settler so I can found all 7 rels, & last game I played, I managed to spread all 7 to almost all my cities shortly before (or maybe shortly after) I built the UN. So by the time I passed the res to make Free Rel global, I no longer needed missionaries; the diversity would provide +7 happiness per city once Free Rel took effect. So all in all, the only religious civic I find useful (until late game) is Org Rel.
Religious civics other than Org Rel--how useful?
- Thread starter Roxtar
- Start date
Enkidu_Warrior
Shaman
in my first game, i played a vassalage-theocracy war-monger. great fun.
the bonus 2xp from theocracy, plus 2xp from vassalage, plus 2xp from barracks, plus being an aggressive civ, meant that my units were coming out with combat I plus two upgrades.
so, theocracy has its uses
ew
the bonus 2xp from theocracy, plus 2xp from vassalage, plus 2xp from barracks, plus being an aggressive civ, meant that my units were coming out with combat I plus two upgrades.
so, theocracy has its uses
ew
Also once you get to mid levels you won't be founding all 7 religions. I'm a bit unclear though, does Theocracy stop religions other than your state religion from spreading to your cities, or does it stop religions based in holy cities you control but not your state religion from spreading to foreign cities, or what?
It stops rels other than your state rel from spreading to your own cities. The holy cities for other rels, no matter who controls them, can still spread those rels to civs not using Theo, just not to your own cities.
Jazz_Newton
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2001
- Messages
- 100
Theocracy = Your cities are 100% resistant to the 6 religions that aren't your state religion.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Theocracy is great for the XP boost. Barracks + theocracy = 6xp = level 3. Add in vassalage and they're near level 4. There's advantages to adding vassalage, but theocracy is also great because it lets you run bureaucracy without worrying about your military.
Preventing enemy religions from infiltrating is also useful. Especially when you consider that the founder of that religion gets spy vision right into your cities if his religion spreads.
Pacifism is something I always prioritize if I'm a philosophical civilization. If I combine Philosophical with the Parthenon I get some serious amounts of great people. Let alone if I add in the Great Library in one city, or National Epic in another. Prioritizing great people is one way a peaceful player can surge ahead of everyone else.
Every civic has a purpose. Well, except Environmentalism and Nationalism. Haven't found uses for those yet. And slavery is a little iffy, too.
Preventing enemy religions from infiltrating is also useful. Especially when you consider that the founder of that religion gets spy vision right into your cities if his religion spreads.
Pacifism is something I always prioritize if I'm a philosophical civilization. If I combine Philosophical with the Parthenon I get some serious amounts of great people. Let alone if I add in the Great Library in one city, or National Epic in another. Prioritizing great people is one way a peaceful player can surge ahead of everyone else.
Every civic has a purpose. Well, except Environmentalism and Nationalism. Haven't found uses for those yet. And slavery is a little iffy, too.
The premise of the original post is wrong though.
Monasteries becoming obsolete means 2 things:
they do not give 10% science bonus, and they cannot be built.
Existing monasteries still give culture (just like any obsolete wonder still gives culture) and still allows you to build missionaries of that religion.
I always build monasteries in cities where I need hapiness and more importantly in my science cities. CAn't have enough +10% science (multiple religions = multiple 10% boni!)
Other civis are very useful too btw. Theocracy for the +2 XP on each unit. Vassalage + theocracy + heroic epic + barracks + west point + pentagon = 18 XP if I'm not mistaken! for a unit that hasn't even fought yet. That's 4 promotions. 5 if you're aggressive (Start with combat I).
Pacifism. I always hesitate between Pacifism and Org Rel. When Pacifism usually becomes available I'm in a big building stage, so I need all the extra production from org rel. However, pacifism gives all those nice GPP boost... Like dh_epic said, it's killer with a Phi leader.
Free religion - all that free science and hapiness? Who'd say no. You could even say it's a free monastery in every city. Sure you lose line of sight if you've founded some religions, but hey, by this time in the game, do you really need it that much?
Monasteries becoming obsolete means 2 things:
they do not give 10% science bonus, and they cannot be built.
Existing monasteries still give culture (just like any obsolete wonder still gives culture) and still allows you to build missionaries of that religion.
I always build monasteries in cities where I need hapiness and more importantly in my science cities. CAn't have enough +10% science (multiple religions = multiple 10% boni!)
Other civis are very useful too btw. Theocracy for the +2 XP on each unit. Vassalage + theocracy + heroic epic + barracks + west point + pentagon = 18 XP if I'm not mistaken! for a unit that hasn't even fought yet. That's 4 promotions. 5 if you're aggressive (Start with combat I).
Pacifism. I always hesitate between Pacifism and Org Rel. When Pacifism usually becomes available I'm in a big building stage, so I need all the extra production from org rel. However, pacifism gives all those nice GPP boost... Like dh_epic said, it's killer with a Phi leader.
Free religion - all that free science and hapiness? Who'd say no. You could even say it's a free monastery in every city. Sure you lose line of sight if you've founded some religions, but hey, by this time in the game, do you really need it that much?
I haven't had a chance to play since the patch came out and my negotiating screens were messed up before, can you order someone to change civics to one you're not using yourself? Can I demand the British switch from slavery to something else they have but they don't have what I'm using?
There's one thing they forgot to put in the game, or decided not to - persecution. Players with non-liberal civics should be able to try and remove foreign religions from their cities, at the cost of a huge long-term image problem among nations with those religions or that have advanced enough civics to imply a conscience. A game with religion, history and even fascism but no persecution is silly, hundreds of years of European history were dominated by attempts to destroy local Catholocism, Protestantism, Islam, Judaism, etc.
There's one thing they forgot to put in the game, or decided not to - persecution. Players with non-liberal civics should be able to try and remove foreign religions from their cities, at the cost of a huge long-term image problem among nations with those religions or that have advanced enough civics to imply a conscience. A game with religion, history and even fascism but no persecution is silly, hundreds of years of European history were dominated by attempts to destroy local Catholocism, Protestantism, Islam, Judaism, etc.
Lullaby
peaceful builder
dh_epic said:
Environmentalism has a purpose, that of boosting your population in the end, when your city growth is usually blocked by health, not happiness. It is just so much weaker than state property in most cases that noone thinks of using it, except maybe for milking purposes.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Lullaby said:
With the victory condition looming, it's hard to see how lifting the population cap will help you that much. Especially when growth is so slow by the time you're that high on population. Not to mention that the few extra population points just doesn't help you towards conquest, the space race, or culture.
oxonian2001
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2005
- Messages
- 178
I can confirm that you can continue to build missionaries in cities with the appropriate monastery, even after the discovery of Scientific Method. Hence, one of my priorities upon acquiring a religion is to build monasteries in at least one city, so I have missionaries available throughout the game.
Steelsmith
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 48
Jazz_Newton said:
I'm pretty sure this only applies to cities that actually have your state religion. I played a game the other day in where I was using Theocracy, and one of my cities got a different religion. Which made me notice that city didn't have my state religion. I've never seen another religion spread to a city with my state religion while using Theocracy.
oxonian2001 said:
Yes, I have often sent out missionaries after Scientific Method. I believe what becomes obsolete after Scientific Method is the added science (beakers) that monasteries give. I can't confirm this post-patch, but I would be very surprised if this changed.
Simetrical
Chieftain
I have. Still true.a4phantom said:
Ray Patterson
the dude is not in
God (sic), that really changes my mind about cultural strategering. Biology is available after all!
Free religion is the best way to keep out of wars. Won't help you forever, but neither will having the same religion as someone else.
and wouldn't it make more sense to prioritize pacifism if you're not philosophical? That's when the effect is bigger relatively. Though I suppose the point is that if you go for lots of GP you often pick philosophical already...
Free religion is the best way to keep out of wars. Won't help you forever, but neither will having the same religion as someone else.
and wouldn't it make more sense to prioritize pacifism if you're not philosophical? That's when the effect is bigger relatively. Though I suppose the point is that if you go for lots of GP you often pick philosophical already...
Simetrical said:
That's right and you even get to complete any monastries you are already building. Yesterday I completed my first culture win and wanted to build 3 caths in each of the culture cities and was building an Islamic monastry in my only town with that religion, when I used a great scientist to discover Scientific Method, forgetting I was still building the monastry. To my surprise the monastry completed and I was able to use it to create missionaries to get the 9 needed Islamic temples.
narmox said:
I believe it is vassalage (+2xp) theocracy (+2xp) heroic epic (+100% military production speed) barracks (+4xp) west point (+4xp) pentagon (+2xp) = 14xp, totaling three promotions, and 3 xp away from that 4th promo, in addition to Combat I if you are an Aggressive civ.
jeremiahrounds
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 404
i could have swore you can build new monastaries even after they are scientifically obsolete.
