Religious spam post patch

[Bee7]

There was a lot of religion about pre-patch, but I am sure there is even more post patch. It is so bad it would be funny if it didn't get in the way so much. These two cities had just been founded, as you can see, but one bunch of missionaries crossed about 40 hexes of ocean to find them. In a swarm. How did they know where to go? No sign of any of their military and then pow, I get prophets. Then the opposition turned up. The city top right changed religion three times in six turns. The worker top right had to wait five turns to improve the fish and another six to get near the oil. I would declare war and hoover them all up except that I know that to do so is evil, because Phillip keeps reminding me about that and I always listen to him on account of his pointy swor. I suppose I could have built about 50 scouts and ringed the island to keep 'em out, but there is always the chance one might have slipped in when I opened the door for one of my units.

 

[kaspergm]

Pretty sure you can see on minimap if a city is founded where you've been, i.e. other players will know you found a city even if they're not currently present.

Wonder if anybody told those Russian apostles that Scythia's heal-on-kill ability also applies to their religious units.

 

[comatosedragon]

Wonder if anybody told those Russian apostles that Scythia's heal-on-kill ability also applies to their religious units.

I did not know that. I guess taking Reliquaries as Scythia would be not so wise then, eh??

 

[Disgustipated]

If it's a previously explored area, then the AI (and you as well) will see any new cities pop up. The AI loves new cities since they are easy to convert. In my games, it seems to stay away from high pop cities.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I wonder if they've considered a "religious city walls" of sorts, to defend your cities and maybe keep them away.

 

[Rosty K]

I wonder if they've considered a "religious city walls" of sorts, to defend your cities and maybe keep them away.

In Civ5 an inquisitor in the city would make it immune to conversion by religious units, so I guess they have considered it.

Introducing the same in Civ6 would make religious victory near impossible, but I think that an inquisitor in the city (or at least at the Holy Site) could have a kind of a support ability weakening the enemy religious units in the city radius or something (both for combat and conversion purposes). Or maybe at least the presence of an inquisitor should affect the proselytizer ability (e.g. inquisitor's religion stays intact). Or something like what I said above could be made into new Apostle promotions.

 

[Karpius]

To me, the biggest problem with the religious side of Civ6 is the AI's ability to mass produce missionaries and apostles. As others have pointed out, they can clog a good portion of your map and severely limit your own mobility.

From a historical perspective, the idea of swarms of proselytizers invading a country without any repercussions is a bit off. Except in the case of a Holy War or Crusade, such people operated in small bands that had little or no capability in 'blocking' the movements of the local military. More often than not, they were outsiders and tried to avoid the authorities. Unless they were state sanctioned and operating within their own country.

Currently, I am playing Rome with just 7 cities so far and situated between Brazil and Arabia. Everyone is officially at peace, but they have turned the Roman territory into their own religious battleground. They routinely seem to spawn a dozen or more missionaries and a few apostles and clash throughout the Roman territory. I have no idea how the AI can produce that many even *with* their advantages. It seems my only recourse is to try and build for a two front war against both just to clear them out.

 

[brewgod]

To me, the biggest problem with the religious side of Civ6 is the AI's ability to mass produce missionaries and apostles. As others have pointed out, they can clog a good portion of your map and severely limit your own mobility.

From a historical perspective, the idea of swarms of proselytizers invading a country without any repercussions is a bit off. Except in the case of a Holy War or Crusade, such people operated in small bands that had little or no capability in 'blocking' the movements of the local military. More often than not, they were outsiders and tried to avoid the authorities. Unless they were state sanctioned and operating within their own country.

Currently, I am playing Rome with just 7 cities so far and situated between Brazil and Arabia. Everyone is officially at peace, but they have turned the Roman territory into their own religious battleground. They routinely seem to spawn a dozen or more missionaries and a few apostles and clash throughout the Roman territory. I have no idea how the AI can produce that many even *with* their advantages. It seems my only recourse is to try and build for a two front war against both just to clear them out.

To me, the biggest problem with the religious side of Civ6 is the AI's ability to mass produce missionaries and apostles. As others have pointed out, they can clog a good portion of your map and severely limit your own mobility.

From a historical perspective, the idea of swarms of proselytizers invading a country without any repercussions is a bit off. Except in the case of a Holy War or Crusade, such people operated in small bands that had little or no capability in 'blocking' the movements of the local military. More often than not, they were outsiders and tried to avoid the authorities. Unless they were state sanctioned and operating within their own country.

Currently, I am playing Rome with just 7 cities so far and situated between Brazil and Arabia. Everyone is officially at peace, but they have turned the Roman territory into their own religious battleground. They routinely seem to spawn a dozen or more missionaries and a few apostles and clash throughout the Roman territory. I have no idea how the AI can produce that many even *with* their advantages. It seems my only recourse is to try and build for a two front war against both just to clear them out.

I just cannot believe how the AI can afford so many religious units and still build their cities. I have never really gotten a grip on how the AI can spam these units and if I build two or three to fight them off I usually do not do well.

 

[Rosty K]

I just cannot believe how the AI can afford so many religious units and still build their cities. I have never really gotten a grip on how the AI can spam these units and if I build two or three to fight them off I usually do not do well.

I don't know what happens above King difficulty, but I don't think they outright 'spam' them. They just save them for later and then unleash the whole bunch, or save faith and by a lot at once (kind of the same thing I would do if going for religious victory - send 3-4 apostles at once). If you somehow kill all that, you won't see their religious units for a while, or they'll be coming one by one in realistic intervals from this point on. Well, at least that's on King, as I already said.

 

[tedhebert]

I just cannot believe how the AI can afford so many religious units and still build their cities. I have never really gotten a grip on how the AI can spam these units and if I build two or three to fight them off I usually do not do well.

You've got to remember that religious units are created using FAITH, and has nothing to do with Cogs or Gold... Pumping out tons of religious units just means that the AI seems to focus heavily on the Holy District... the rest of city dev
is dependent on cogs mainly, and gold for quick buys...

Of course, I too find that the AI does NOT seem to be slowed in the early game while building all those holy district buildings, but... anyways

 

[Ramalhão]

Could a limit for religious units be a solution? At least there won't be a lot of units battling in your territory limiting the movements of your own units.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I did not know that. I guess taking Reliquaries as Scythia would be not so wise then, eh??

Not really. Just send your apostles individually on a suicide course. Let it take some damage and move to another civ with full strength religous units.

 

[UWHabs]

Could a limit for religious units be a solution? At least there won't be a lot of units battling in your territory limiting the movements of your own units.

You could potentially limit it to one apostle per holy site (not counting free ones from wonders). Although in some ways, that may lead to more spam, since then you'd probably need 100 missionaries running around to be able to convert cities.

 

[AmtrakQuebec]

Meh, I've seen worse religious spam than that pre-patch.

 

[Forster]

I still don't see how they can churn out that many missionaries and apostles with only four or five cities. I takes me forever to pump out an apostle, and missionaries, while quicker, still take time. And, although they don't cost cogs or gold, the district and buildings do, yet they still develop the cities, build wonders and pump out units. They must be getting some serious buffs to help.

 

[Art Morte]

It is absurd that a handful of preachers can block movement of other units. Doesn't make any sense. At least they're constantly on the move or spending their charges near a city, so they don't hang about in one place for turns on end, but it's still ridiculous.

Could a limit for religious units be a solution? At least there won't be a lot of units battling in your territory limiting the movements of your own units.

I've made this suggestion before that you should increase both the cost and number of charges of religious units. You'd get fewer units but the same amount of charges for your faith.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Go back to Civ V's way of making religous pressure powerful and make religous units more limited. That was much more cleaner.

 

[Bee7]

I wonder if they've considered a "religious city walls" of sorts, to defend your cities and maybe keep them away.

Maybe a card to develop a Holy Hand Grenadier of Antioch? A unit which is only effective against missionaries and prophets?

 

[Bee7]

To me, the biggest problem with the religious side of Civ6 is the AI's ability to mass produce missionaries and apostles... They routinely seem to spawn a dozen or more missionaries and a few apostles and clash throughout the Roman territory. I have no idea how the AI can produce that many even *with* their advantages. It seems my only recourse is to try and build for a two front war against both just to clear them out.

I wonder if it is something like the barbarian spam early on at the higher levels, where the barbarians seem to be there to keep the AI civs in check?

 

[Rosty K]

Maybe a card to develop a Holy Hand Grenadier of Antioch? A unit which is only effective against missionaries and prophets?

That'd be only effective against rabbits though, wouldn't it?