Religious Tourism Pressure

[Victoria]

Just running through different bits before putting them in a guide. Its a good way to thrash them out, check my assumptions and get some different views. A couple of things before the example/explanation that can help

Currently here are the zealots in the world, I am not one of them. But I do have a grass cutting sword in my palace (religious relic with +8 tourism) A fine lawn is a sign of the well civilized.

I am also at a good part in the game (saved too) where just Russia and myself seem to have enlightenment. I know I do and am guessing he does from the civic screen.

My Base City Tourism is currently 113 and below shows 4 civs and how everything is calculated.
My base includes the full 8 tourism from my grass cutting sword.

For Russia and Brazil it is – 113+28.25-20.34 = 120.91 - 120 Tourism

For Rome it is 113+28.25-16.95 – 124.3 – 124 tourism

I have 1 holy artefact for 8 tourism in my palace

Once you have the enlightenment civic it reduces the effect of just the artifacts by 50%

So for Russia it is 113 + 28.25 - 20.34 - 4 (8*50%) = 116.91 = 116 tourism

So in essence enlightenment just reduces the tourism value of religious artifacts by 50% regardless of what religion you are. (further on in this game I become catholic and nothing changes formula wise. Am awaiting great General Henry VIII to convert me.)

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Nice....
The two other things that I think might qualify would be
Religious Art?
Holy Site for Holy City?

 

[Victoria]

The two other things that I think might qualify would be
Religious Art?
Holy Site for Holy City?

Religious Art and Holy cities seem to have no impact whatsoever, nor does your religion versus theirs.
It just seems to be that after enlightenment no-one wants to look at the prophets toenails anymore.
Good question and worth a like.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

And what about the modifier for different religions?
AFAIK it affects religious tourism and not the rest of you tourism. It seems logical that your holy city tourism would be lower for civilizations not following your religion. I didn't fully test this but i think only civilizations that actually founded another religion have this -50% modifier, not civilizations who got converted by an AI.

Also what exactly is considered Religious Tourism?
From what you say it seems it's only relics, but holy city sure looks like it should fall into this category. Religious art is probably just art, unless there is a separate case for art kept in cathedrals.

 

[Victoria]

And what about the modifier for different religions?
AFAIK it affects religious tourism and not the rest of you tourism. It seems logical that your holy city tourism would be lower for civilizations not following your religion. I didn't fully test this but i think only civilizations that actually founded another religion have this -50% modifier, not civilizations who got converted by an AI.

Also what exactly is considered Religious Tourism?
From what you say it seems it's only relics, but holy city sure looks like it should fall into this category. Religious art is probably just art, unless there is a separate case for art kept in cathedrals.

TBH I have been avoiding religion until I had done all the other stuff in the hope someone would test some stuff for me but I will give it a go.

As I understand it currently

A holy city if for religion and the relics are for tourism. perhaps if a relic is stored in holy city it gets a modifier but I do not believe so. The only one I know of is reliquaries.

A cathedral can house art that is labelled as religious. Which is one of the 4 types of art in the game. Perhaps that gets more from a holy city, i have not tested. Maybe it can be themed, I have not tested.

With regard to differing religions. I'll check it out too... just trying to do one modifier at a time

 

[Lord Yanaek]

TBH I have been avoiding religion until I had done all the other stuff in the hope someone would test some stuff for me but I will give it a go.

OK. i have always played with my own Religion, but unfortunately didn't really take notes. I'll see if i can make some sense of it.

A holy city if for religion and the relics are for tourism. perhaps if a relic is stored in holy city it gets a modifier but I do not believe so. The only one I know of is reliquaries.

Relics or not, i think a Holy City will always generate tourism. Not sure, because when going for tourism i try to buy AI relics if the price is reasonable (like 2 luxes + GPT, it's only for 30 turns and the Relic is forever) so it might be the source of the tourism, but i clearly had a suitcase on my holy city's holy site in the tourism lens, and the text was Holy City for <whatever i called my religion>

A cathedral can house art that is labelled as religious. Which is one of the 4 types of art in the game. Perhaps that gets more from a holy city, i have not tested. Maybe it can be themed, I have not tested.

Yes, it can't be themed as it's alone. I wasn't sure whether Religious Art in a Cathedral would receive -50% for different religions or not. In Museums i don't think it's affected.

With regard to differing religions. I'll check it out too... just trying to do one modifier at a time

Well, i asked as this thread seemed to be about religion and tourism but sure enough, do it at your own pace.

Thanks for the efforts you put into analyzing all the tourism modifiers.

 

[Victoria]

OK. i have always played with my own Religion, but unfortunately didn't really take notes. I'll see if i can make some sense of it
.......

Well, i asked as this thread seemed to be about religion and tourism but sure enough, do it at your own pace.

Thanks for the efforts you put into analyzing all the tourism modifiers.

Its a lot of work and I am employed and have 3 youngsters and its culture + Tourism so not a small thing, lots to checkand test, lots of views to get or else we get a badly done guide.

Any, any any help always appreciated

I have avoided religion up until now as it just muddied the water, but now am at that stage

 

[Lord Yanaek]

OK. I have tested it. New game on Emperor (easier to test religion). I don't have a relic and my Holy City's Holy Site is producing 8 Tourism.
That tourism is halved against Monty who has founded his own Religion.
I'll try and see how that tourism is modified if he successfully converts France. Currently he converted 2 of her 4 cities so we'll see.

Spoiler :

I think that tourism can be significant in a Culture game because you start to accumulate it very early. Not as good as a T10 relic, but more reliable.

 

[Victoria]

Yes, I tested last night also and was very frustrated for a while. It is certainly the most complicated part of the game. I have a theory and have tested it, its the only thing that works and gives an accurate result over the period of the game. Naturally when you see it you will understand why I want to test it more before accepting my own theory.

I played a game last night as England with religion on prince standard map. With reliquaries and martyr as that seems the best tourist option and cathedrals (they are rubbish). It was my first religion game so not efficient but showed what I needed... I think.

The Holy city does get 8 tourism as you said. That seems to be the only other religious modification. Cathedral art is just normal tourism. So 2 lousy tourism each and not deemed religious by the look of it.

So the formula is not at all easy (sorry krikkittwo)

Different religions -50% modifier is applied to the city base tourism (CBT) to give a Modified City Base Tourism (MCBT) This modifier is applied to both the holy city and the artifacts.

Enlightenment is then applied to MCBT but enlightenment is only applied to the artifacts (the artifact value after the different religions modifier!) not the holy city. This is despite the fact that Cristo hints that both are affected.

Different governments, open borders and trade routes are also applied to MCBT individually and then merged together.

Decimal places are kept through the process and rounded down at the end.

This was not an easy work out but is the best I have now. What I would really like is for someone to ratify these figures as an independent because its just such a non intuitive way of doing this.

I could paste an example in here but all that cut and paste does my head in. So here is a theoretical.


I have 8 tourism from holy site
I have 104 tourism from relics
i have 100 tourism from wonders
I have 200 tourism from museums
A total of 412 Tourism from my cities.

The modifiers against spain are (shown is this order on the screen)
-50% enlightenment
-50% different religion
+50% trade route
+25% open borders

First for different religion 412 - 56 = 356 (the 56 is 50% of holy site and relics)
Then for enlightenment 52 x 50% = 26 ( 52 is the relics halved for diff relig)
Then for trade route 356 x 50% = 178
Then for open borders 356 x 25% = 89
Then finally go 356 - 26 + 178 + 89 = 597 tourism applied to Spain that turn

This just seems so wrong but seems to work. I just do not feel convinced.

 

[DiffSarit]

This may be a little bit off topic, but I feel it is the most appropriate here anyway.

If you wanna go for Culture Victory, an early era Wonder can helps a lot, bcoz the earlier era Wonder will give higher tourism, no matter when it is built.

Most of the game I played, there are always some ancient/classical/medieval era Wonder still left for grab in the late game (Industrial era and later) which can be built in less than 10 turns and will give a big boost for tourism.

 

[Victoria]

If you wanna go for Culture Victory, an early era Wonder can helps a lot, bcoz the earlier era Wonder will give higher tourism, no matter when it is built.

True, but the trouble is the formula is 2+ 1 for each era after it was available. And wonders have no multipluers for tourism. So an early wonder is like holy relic eventually but spent many eras worth less. A late wonder tourism point wise is just worthless.