[NFP] Religious Victory Elimination Thread

[Civ Chemist]

Have testes Monty last night and his extra CS from luxuries does NOT apply to religious units (anymore). Same with Tomyris' Killer of Cyrus. So I don't see a lot of reasons to keep those 2 here much longer.

Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18] (17+1): I like Egypt quite a lot. The sphynx is a great UI and if built on floodplains provides a lot of early culture. Early culture is arguably as important as early faith for religious victories. Reaching theology 10 turns earlier can make a huge difference giving you earlier temples and access to apostles when the AI is still going around with missionaries. And since floodplains often provide additional yields you'd want to work those tiles anyway. It also has amazing synergy with earth goddess (if you can get it). The extra poduction for districts and wonders along rivers is not that impressive and I would not sacrifice a high adjacency holy site for it but it's still free prodcution with the right land.
Cyrus/Persia [12] (has been dropped a while ago)
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [18]
Mansa Musa/Mali [21]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [6]
Saladin/Arabia [24]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [2]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [13] (16-3): Don't think the Kurgan is enough to keep her here much longer. It's a little bit of extra faith and might help get a pantheon earlier. But with no extra food or pruduction I'm not sure it is actually worth working a lot of these in the early game, especially since they cannot be built on hills.
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [10]

 

[TCBB]

Regarding Tomyris & Monty: if true, that's a massive shame. I was literally just reading Zigzagzigal's guide on Tomyris (GS version) in order to answer @Dantesedge's question, and there's an entire section there on how good Tomyris is at theological combat (same for Montezuma's guide too).

Now, this seems like a pretty massive change for Firaxis to leave unmentioned. So should someone report it as a bug? Is there a forum for doing that? Do they patrol these forums? Or do we just assume it's a deliberate change? And I mean, until we know the answer, it's difficult to know how to proceed with this thread: if it turns out to be a bug, then Monty & Tomyris deserve to remain; but if its an intentional change, then they probably should have been eliminated a long time ago (especially Tomyris).

Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [12]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18] (17+1) As long as you settle within 10 turns or so, it's not hard to rush a religion as Kupe. And once he's got one, he can snowball fast in faith generation: there's the free faith from the Marae, obviously, but also the ability to scout out and choose the best city locations for your holy sites, including next to natural wonders. Other points in his favour include instant access to ocean travel (crucial for a fast RV), reliable golden age in the classical era (= exodist of the evangelists), free culture from Marae (= fast theocracy), and the fact that, on any map type but Pangaea, he tends to meet a lot of city states early on, which increases his likelihood of snatching a Jerusalem or Yerevan.
Lautaro/Mapuche [18]
Mansa Musa/Mali [21]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [6]
Saladin/Arabia [24]
Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [0] (ELIMINATED) While a neat thing to have, movement & insta-promotion are not as important for religious units as they are for combat ones.
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [13]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [10]

 

[Dantesedge]

Speaking of Monty, he's been missing since page 5. He should be at 16. Whoops.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [9] (12-3) Don't really know who to downvote at this time, and I thought that Cyrus might be one of the next to quit us. He has an incentive to build encampments (for early surprise wars where the grievances are still low) and commercial hubs (to the roads inside his empire). So you can go for Holy Sites and culture from Paraidiza and trade routes to go mysticism/theology, but you miss the strength of Cyrus. But you're completely weakening your civ doing so.
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [18]
Mansa Musa/Mali [21]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Montezuma/Aztecs [16] Some people might be tempted to downvote him since his luxury CS bonus is gone, but don't forget that 1) he can snatch easily Exodus since his UU and UI are ancient/classical and 2) using your builders to rush your holy sites is as strong as Qin rushing Stonehenge or Mahabodhi, so even if his religious units are weaker than thought, he still have great bonuses.
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [7](6+1) I will again upvote Qin (which appears to be one of the most controversial of this thread) for one good reason: even in deity, he's one of the few that can consider a guaranteed prophet. Rushing Stonehenge is not that hard (I can't remember the last time I spawned too far from stone, it's literally everywhere) and with his LUA he has more than a decent chance to snatch it. And once you have you great prophet, you can go what you want: focusing on Holy Sites, Wonders on your own economy. It's like why we kept upvoting Saladin. Saladin has a guaranteed prophet. And with the Ancient Wonders builder rush, Qin too. Just for this reason, he's IMO in the first tier. Because, after than, with Mahabodhi (that you can rush too) you have two free apostles, and once you reached Middle-Age, you should have so much bonuses to be comfortable on starting focusing on your religion at this time. So, yeah, it's kind of conditional, but the odds are really on Qin side (each time I played him and wanted to found a religion, I never had to worry about Stonehenge).
Saladin/Arabia [24]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [13]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [10]

 

[JhGf_123]

Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [10] (9+1) Civ_Chemist's arguments in favour of Cleopatra also apply to Persia: i.e. a unique improvement that grants early culture & synchronises with earth goddess. +2 movement also applies to religious units, meaning you can declare surprise war on one enemy while converting another one with super-fast apostles.
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [18]
Mansa Musa/Mali [21]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Montezuma/Aztecs [16]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [4] (7-3) Point no. 1: "I can't remember the last time I spawned too far from stone, it's literally everywhere". Yup: that's exactly the problem. Apart from Great Bath, Stonehenge is usually the first wonder to be built by deity AI. Relying on it for an RV is not a reliable strategy. Point no. 2: even if you miraculously manage to grab Stonehenge, you still have to build holy sites for RV. So why waste the time on it when you could just go straight for holy sites: you'd literally halve the number of hammers you have to spend. Point no. 3: the scenario everyone is describing where Qin builds up his faith income through building wonders is a slow-burner strategy which, as you say, only really comes to friution in the medieval age. But religious victory is not about slow-burners, its about rushing your neighbours as fast as possible, otherwise, you end up stuck in a grind-fest of apostles spamming into apostles. I.e. I don't want to be doing something else in early game and then pursue RV, I want to pursue RV immediately.
Saladin/Arabia [24]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [13]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [10]

 

[fredrikslicer]

Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [10]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [18]
Mansa Musa/Mali [21]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Montezuma/Aztecs [16]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [1] (4-3) A single wonder rush to be successful? no thanks
Saladin/Arabia [24] (24+1) Feel his advantages are pretty selfevident at this point with the free religion
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [13]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [10]

 

[bengalryan9]

Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [10]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [18] Do I really want to put holy sites near mountains when those would be the best places for chemamulls (and campuses)? That's Lautaro's problem.
Mansa Musa/Mali [21]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Montezuma/Aztecs [16] He could at least still theoretically rush a holy site with builders, so I don't think it's a shoe-in for him to be downvoted just yet, CS bonus or no.
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13] Why is Pericles so low? Free wildcard plus a ton of culture seems pretty good to me...
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [1]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [10] (13-3) Now that we've confirmed her combat bonuses don't work on her religious units it's time for her to go. That would have been her biggest advantage.
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11] (10+1) So let's talk about Canada again, but this time I put my money where my mouth is and actually did some research. Look at the attached save file and you'll see a deity game where I managed to grab the first pantheon (Dance of the Auroras) and the first religion (work ethic for production and gudwaras from food) in a production poor start (only one hill near the capital). It's not hard to do any of this as Canada. First, start off by researching Astrology. While waiting I trained a couple of scouts and one slinger - these are the only troops I trained, and you can get away with it because no THE AI WILL NOT DECLARE ON YOU. In this game I did everything I could to antagonize them - I denounced them immediately, I had a combat score WAY lower than any of their's, and I turned down any request they made. If you're worried about barbs, sub a warrior or slinger for the scouts (I just wanted to find the AI ASAP so I could tick them off). As soon as Astrology finished, build a holy site. Then I started running prayer projects to finish the push towards getting a prophet. This was really easy to do and gives Canada a huge leg up on many others on the list no matter how much some don't won't to admit it... there's maybe only a handful of leaders who will have an easier time getting a great prophet than Canada (Peter and Saladin for sure, and then *maybe* Poland and Greece), and you can't win an RV without one.

And it's not like doing any of this set me back at all compared to where I would be in most normal starts with other leaders - I've got a district built, I've got plenty of space left to settle (since the AI's not going to care about all that tundra and my religion know makes it a whole lot easier to survive there), a lot of places available to settle aren't even tundra (I'd probably settle north towards America and west towards Norway first, because what are they going to do about it?), and the only thing I'm missing - an army - is something I don't even need. Someone mentioned earlier that Canada's best path to victory is culture... I disagree, because most of those bonuses come late. Canada's best path towards victory is RV, and they are way better at it than they are getting credit for here.

While many people might not like Canada's immunity to surprise wars, it's a very powerful tool that they deserve credit for.

 

[Francel]

Since I started this thread, I feel compelled to remind people - please be careful and don't delete anyone from the list! Having said that, I am sure I'm now jinxed and will inevitably do the same.

Also, if you see anything that you believe runs afoul of the rules, please flag a moderator.

Moving on... We are down to fewer than 30 civilizations!

Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [7] (10-3) - Downvotes are becoming less obvious, but he is really geared towards war. Extra movement for 10 turns after declaring a war is time limited, not especially dramatic to begin with, and sending apostles to the war target may be too dangerous. Extra appeal is nice, if you get Earth Goddess, but that is not guaranteed. Even with the unique improvement and right pantheon, there is a cost and the amount of extra faith may vary.
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19] (18+1) - The Khmer have a wonderful niche strategy that can be used to generate insane amounts of faith - reliquaries and the prasat. I like to use all the charges on a missionary save 1, and then said it far away to where my religion has not yet spread to generate a relic. Plus, building holy sites is a no brainer for Khmer, even if adjacency bonuses often take a hit.
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [18]
Mansa Musa/Mali [21]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Montezuma/Aztecs [16]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [1]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [10]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11]

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Amanitore/Nubia [10] (9+1) Having beaten an RV with her, I found her very capable. Her desert bias is perfect for Desert Folklore, and thus one of the few civs able to make Work Ethic matter. She can get 40% production to her Holy Sites, enabling grabbing religion faster than vanilla civs. Classical golden ages are easy for her, so then you take Exodus for those faster religious units with +2 extra charges. And every Nubian Pyramid next to a holy site generates +2 faith, as much as a temple.
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [7]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [18]
Mansa Musa/Mali [21]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Montezuma/Aztecs [16]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [1]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [7] (10-7) It looks like she's been propped up by those of us who still thought the leader ability was applicable. If it still worked, there would be no way I'd be downvoting her, but that was her main trick for RV and that is moot now.
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11]

 

[Leucarum]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [7]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [15] (18-3) One of my favourites but much better off using those mountains to fuel science and going hybrid sci/dom than religion IMO
Mansa Musa/Mali [21]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17] (16+1) Stronger apostles are really important.
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [1]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [7]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11]

 

[Josephias]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [4] (7-3) He's been hit hard since he has been readded to the list, but I had already made my mind on my next downvote. Only strenght i see, as in the case of Rome, is early culture production. On the other hand, a 10 turn movement bonus is, IMHO, more a malus than a bonus. Yes, you can get somewere earlier with your missionaries or appostles, but they will be all used up when the second wave comes (that will not have the movement bonus). In terms of managing to have apostle superiority for religious combat, it may be situationally good, but normally will not make much of a difference (and again, the 10 turn timer may end leaving your apostles in a difficult situation).
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
Mansa Musa/Mali [22] (21+1) Extra early faith, wich leads to a very good option to get Desert Folklore with Desert bias is indeed good (see Russia + Tundra). Sinergies of Suguba with holy sites is also good. But then I realized Suguba provides also with discounts on faith purchases. And this moved Mali from good to great.
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [1]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [7]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11]

 

[Morgawr]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [4]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [12] (15-3) No faith bonuses, mostly domination focused
Mansa Musa/Mali [22]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [11]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [28]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [1]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [8] (7+1) I have been following this thread but first time posting. I had to jump in to save Scythia because even if their combat healing ability is taken away, the kurgan provides so much faith bonus that they are a lot more relevant to RV than some others on this list and don't deserve to go so soon! One of my fave civs to play for RV
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11]

 

[Hans Castorp]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [4]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [12]
Mansa Musa/Mali [22]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [8] 11-3 Getting tricky at this point. Strong production bonus on district and buildings, but I agree that the river condition means this usually comes at the expense of adjacency bonuses,.
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [13]
Peter/Russia [29] [28+1] First upvote I'm giving Peter, as I've been trying to spread my votes. Cheap HS, multiple options for Pantheons that are likely to pay off, though you will probably get to choose first anyway. Swimming in faith.
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [1]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [8]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11]

 

[kryat]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [4]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [12] (15-3) I’ve played Australia, and I found them great, but not as insanely OP as many make them out to be. The appeal bonus is good, but unreliable. Sometimes you just have a lot of flat interior land that’s good for outback stations, but not for adjacency. There production bonus is a neat break glass trick, but you can’t control when it comes (though likely to trigger early game). When it does trigger in early game, you want to use it to build units and defenses, not religion.
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [12]
Mansa Musa/Mali [22]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [8]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [14] (13+1) Easy to early suzerain for bonus culture, and has a wildcard slot for fast pantheon and great prophet points.
Peter/Russia [29]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [1]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [8]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11]

 

[monikernemo]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [18]
Cyrus/Persia [1] (4-3) No real bonus to getting a religion/faith generation here.
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [12]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [12]
Mansa Musa/Mali [22]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [8]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [14]
Peter/Russia [29]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [2] (1+1)
Gonna upvote China again. Surely, there are other civs here that should rank lower than China.

At least having the ability to rush SH means one more way to get a great prophet. Yes you eventually have to build a holy site but guess what, if you are going to win a RV, you will certainly build more than one holy site anyways.

Sacred places is quite strong early into the game, 2 sci 2 culture 2 gold and 2 faith amounts to the yields of getting one envoy into a cultural, sci and religious CS, so it doesn't set you back that much anyways.
Wonder Rushing + Divine Inspiration makes up for faith generation. SH is a wonder that gives 8 faith, 2 Sci, 2 Culture, 2 gold after accounting for Sacred places + Divine inspiration.

I disagree that you want to pursue RV right away because, firstly, you want all the other players to have a great prophet. If you convert a civ entirely and they spawn a great prophet, all your previous efforts goes to waste since cities with holy sites get converted to their newly found religion. Secondly, as China, you want to time completing Mahabodhi with Moksha with Patron Saint active in the city.
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [8] (Faith from Kurgan is inconsequential but I am sure that Apostles get lifesteal...)
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11]

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [15] (18-3) Personally, I think Cleo has got too high. While she’s a solid above-average 6 or 7 at RV, there’s no way she is on par with the likes of Gandhi/Chandy (+2 missionary charges), Mongolia (steroid apostles), Greece (Wildcard & best culture in the game), or Maori (see @TCBB’s post from yesterday for a great explanation). As has been mentioned, there is a fundamental incongruence between good Holy Site adjacencies and a Civ tied to rivers – or more specifically, floodplain rivers, which tend to be found on flat, open terrain far away from mountains. And while it is a *decent* improvement, IMO the Sphinx isn’t enough by itself to propel Egypt into the top tiers of RV. Not saying she should go right now, but her time isn’t far away.
Cyrus/Persia [1]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [12]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [12]
Mansa Musa/Mali [22]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [8]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [14]
Peter/Russia [29]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China [3] (2+1) In the spirit of @bengalryan9 and his earlier posts on Georgia, I’m (partly) backtracking about China. Intrigued by the strong defence Qin was receiving, I tried him out last night - and true enough, I was able to grab both Stonehenge and Mahabodhi Temple. I still do not think it is an *amazing* strategy for RV - it’s a lot of investment into two wonders when you could, y’know, just build Holy Sites like any other Civ - but credit where credit is due.
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [8]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [11]

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Now, this seems like a pretty massive change for Firaxis to leave unmentioned. So should someone report it as a bug? Is there a forum for doing that?

https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/civ6-bug-reports.553/

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
Cyrus/Persia [1]
Gandhi/India [19]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [7]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [12]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [12]
Mansa Musa/Mali [22]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [8]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [14]
Peter/Russia [29]
Philip/Spain [15]
Qin Shi Huang/China Eliminated (3-3) - going for Stonehenge is a huge blunder the AI always makes, it's not a good religous strategy as you still need Holy Sites anyway, it distracts from good wonders Qin could build instead.
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [8]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [12] (11+1) - Doesn't need to worry about surprise wars so less opportunity costs going religion early.

 

[TCBB]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
Cyrus/Persia [1]
Gandhi/India [20] (19+1) Spread charges, spread charges everywhere.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [4] (7-3) As discussed previously. Despite all the faith you can earn, Harald's pillage economy lends itself best to science victory or domination – not religion. And he gets no bonuses towards founding one, anyway.
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [12]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [12]
Mansa Musa/Mali [22]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [8]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [14]
Peter/Russia [29]
Philip/Spain [15]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [8] (EDIT: Have tested for myself – and it's true, Scythia's apostles do NOT receive health when eliminating a unit, nor extra combat strength against wounded units)
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [12]

 

[Dantesedge]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
Cyrus/Persia [0] (1-3) Eliminated. Good culture and the movement bonus during a surprise war lends Cyrus a decent religious victory bonus but, as I said yesterday, the civs left all have decent to amazing bonuses at this point so it's time for him to go. It was him or Matthias, but I downvoted Matthias yesterday and the list is still too big for me stop spreading my votes.
Gandhi/India [20]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [4]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22] (21+1) Oh sweet, sweet adjacency bonuses. That and half priced Holy Sites, Hojo has a really, really strong religious game.
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [12]
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [12]
Mansa Musa/Mali [22]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [8]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [14]
Peter/Russia [29]
Philip/Spain [15]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [8] I keep waffling on down voting her or not. The rules say to use "the most current patch" so unfortunately she falls under Killer of Cyrus being bugged or nerfed. That just kind of sucks.
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [12]

 

[JhGf_123]

Amanitore/Nubia [10]
Chandragupta/India [16]
Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
Gandhi/India [20]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [19]
Gitarja/Indonesia [20]
Gorgo/Greece [17]
Harald Hardrada/Norway [4]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
Jadwiga/Poland [21]
Jayavarman/Khmer [19]
John Curtin/Australia [13] (12+1) @kryat, if you're struggling with appeal in flat featureless land, build your holy sites in triangles next to one another. Since they grant +1 appeal to adjacent tiles, they power up each other's adjacencies. Same for entertainment complexes, theatre squares and water parks (and obviously world wonders). In short: Australia is more flexible than you'd think in getting to the all-important 'breathtaking' appeal.
Kupe/Maori [18]
Lautaro/Mapuche [12]
Mansa Musa/Mali [22]
Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [8]
Montezuma/Aztecs [17]
Pachacuti/Inca [13]
Pedro/Brazil [21]
Pericles/Greece [14]
Peter/Russia [29]
Philip/Spain [15]
Saladin/Arabia [25]
Tamar/Georgia [21]
Tomyris/Scythia [5] (8-3) With Killer of Cyrus busted, she probably should have gone a long time ago. At least the Aztecs can rush holy sites with builders.
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [12]