Renegade unit: Attacks building civilization

[CamJH]

I found out this little "bug" a couple months back. But I've been using it a little bit differently. I've used it to create spy & terrorist units. Not giving them any attack points, but giving them the pillage function. I've positioned them at rival cities strategic resources as well as capitals. If they all of a sudden declare war on me or any of my friendly civs, they then begin losing resources necessary for their attacking units, plus I knock off communication with their capital. Wars don't seem to last very long then. It's helpful at keeping those war-mongoring nations at bay.

 

[ocedius]

I kinda came across this a while back too, but my reason for using this type of unit is to give the AI a unit it will create and use, not ignore. The AI is very, um, stupid in Civ, and C3C is not improvemnt either. So I use these in a manner consistent with AI behavior. The units work well, becuase the AI needs all the help it can get.

The subs are a new thing though since I hadn't tried it with 'em till DPII sugested it.

 

[WildWeazel]

This is confusing, but it sounds like it could have some good uses. So the only way to kill this type of unit unfortified is to use lethal bombard?

 

[ocedius]

This is confusing, but it sounds like it could have some good uses. So the only way to kill this type of unit unfortified is to use lethal bombard?

That I am aware of, yes. But surely someone out there will work on this and comeup with other more interesting ways

 

[Mr. Will]

Do the units have hit points? What happens if you give them bombard range over 0? Can they be used to attack? Will the AI attack with them? I might redo subs...

 

[ocedius]

Do the units have hit points? What happens if you give them bombard range over 0? Can they be used to attack? Will the AI attack with them? I might redo subs...

Yes they can have additional Hitpoints.

With a range over 0, they can bombard like artillery instead of just defensive

Yes, the AI does attack with them

 

[WildWeazel]

How can a unit w 0 def have HP?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Somehow it does... I'm guessing that the Attack value is what allows it to have HP. Probably if the unit has either an attack or defense value.

Has anybody ever tried a unit with 0 Attack and some defense and see what happens?

The only fundamental flaw I see with Subs currently is that the AI will not know to use them for Naval Power.

BUT on the other hand, if these things have Hidden Nationality, that might be for the best anyway.... because invisible submarines that can sink anything without there being a state of war are just a pain!

 

[WildWeazel]

I've done some testing with this, and here is basically what is happening, in one post:
There are only 2 requirements for this to happen- hidden nationality and 0 defense. If the unit has an attack value it can attack another unit, but cant otherwise move into a tile occupied by another civ. Any unit with an attack or defense value has HP, because it can engage in battle in some way, and therefore be injured. Bombardment is not affected at all by this concept, as far as I can tell.
This could be used in a variety of ways, and the game doesnt seem to have a problem with it.

 

[ocedius]

I've done some testing with this, and here is basically what is happening, in one post:
There are only 2 requirements for this to happen- hidden nationality and 0 defense. If the unit has an attack value it can attack another unit, but cant otherwise move into a tile occupied by another civ. Any unit with an attack or defense value has HP, because it can engage in battle in some way, and therefore be injured. Bombardment is not affected at all by this concept, as far as I can tell.
This could be used in a variety of ways, and the game doesnt seem to have a problem with it.

You don't say

 

[WildWeazel]

You don't say

Well there were some questions floating around, and you seemed to imply the defensive bombard was a requirement. I wrote it out as much for my own understanding as everyone else's.
btw, I fortified a worker and let the AI move onto its tile and nothing happened. What were the stats for your sub?

 

[ocedius]

Well there were some questions floating around, and you seemed to imply the defensive bombard was a requirement. I wrote it out as much for my own understanding as everyone else's.
btw, I fortified a worker and let the AI move onto its tile and nothing happened. What were the stats for your sub?

Its odd as to what happened with your worker. Fortified units without a defense are destroyed whenever I use em. But like I said, I am still figuring out all the possible uses and conditions under which this works best.

About the sub, it was the same as a regular sub in C3C with 0 defense, HN, and additional bombardment equal to its defense.

About the defensive bombardment, I originally used the 'resistor' for which I created an immobile, 0 defense, ZOC offensive unint requiring 0 shields and 1 population. The defensive bomabardment was a convenient way to depict resistor actions; though I in no way meant to imply that this is a must.

To each his own, but I would definately like to know how else if not as a defensive unit would anyone use these units. All the units in my mods are population driven; with 1 food required per population; legionaries need 1 population to make, just as worker. And I have the join city option available which is probably why the AI uses it so well. Only very strong units are multiple population driven, Subs need 4 population, Tanks 3, A-Carriers 3 and so on.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I still want to know what happens when you have a unit with 0 Attack and 1 or more Defense.

 

[WildWeazel]

DPII, if the unit has defense, but not attack, it will act as a normal unit, except that it can't attack.

@ocedius:maybe it does have something to do with bombard, since my worker was simply given the hidden nationality flag and 1 attack.
Slightly OT, but a carrier should require more population than a sub. Subs typically have a crew of about 100, while a single carrier has a crew of thousands

 

[ocedius]

Thanx for the tip .. guess I'll put Carriers for a pop 5 then. Oh and DPII, hHN or no HN, a defense value other than 0 will cause a fist fight till one of em drops.