Replacement for Puppet

[WeaselSlapper]

Hello all I had an idea that I wanted to try out with the community. I think 2K needs to rework the current puppet system. I've been a long time Civ player (first discovered Civ 2 in a bundle pack with Risk) and my biggest peeve about 5 is expansion is punished, and I hate seeing so much space go wasted.

At the very least I would like the ability to build a new puppet city so I could grab some new land and resources later in the game without it killing my ability to get policies (I don't care as much about National Wonders). But I think i have a solution that would work much better than the current puppet system.

Replace puppets with a colony/outpost (hell even still call them puppets) but they would work slightly differently. Here are the improvements I'm suggesting:

• No unhappiness from the city (population still add unhappiness, but not the city itself)
• No additionaly policy costs from this city
• Can be settled (doesn't have to be captured)
• Can control production (but can't built military)
• Can select focus (gold, production etc)

Drawbacks of the Colony/Outpost

• 1/2 Ranged strength
• 1/3 Hitpoints
• Culture generated in this city cannot contribute towards policies (only boarders)
• City does count for National Wonders (except Heroic Epic)
• Happiness generated from policies doesn't apply for these cities
• Can't micro tiles worked or run specialists, but can avoid growth
• Can't build defensive buildings

These cities could be converted to a regular city, but it takes 5 turns for that city to "upgrade" during those five turns the city can't attack or produce anything (like a city in revolt).

*edit - Colonies should be able to be founded until Navigation is discovered.

 

[CivilizedPlayer]

Actually kind of a cool idea. I would like this in addition to the puppet system. I think you should able to puppet captured cities, but I think it would be cool to be able to found your own colonies. I like the drawbacks you gave too. However, I don't think you should be able to choose it's production.

 

[headcase]

Sounds better to me. But there should also be a way for colonies to become their own civs if left too long without a garrison, though I can't think of a satisfying way to fit that into gameplay; if it was random it would be annoying, if it was not random then no player would ever let it happen unless their military situation became desperate.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i like the idea, but i would prefer to be able to micro the tiles but not control production. i'd like control over population more than the buildings.

 

[Civ'ed]

Sounds good.
Maybe replace the conquistador ability with a "colony"?

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions.

 

[Adrenaline15]

but should colonies have production? imo, they should be strictly a gold production city, built to be taxed and whatever natural resource it has. any forms of improvements should be done through funding from the mother country(imagine sending of materials and specialists).

 

[theis81]

I think you have some good ideas. I really like the idea of making puppets easier to conquer, it makes sence in the way that puppets are less willing to put up a fight.

Also taking them out of the happiness and policy formula makes sence.

I don't like the idea about choosing focus and production plus having them count towards national wonders.

Last thing i would add is a surplus tax / corruption. Meaning you lose X% of the surplus gold they accumulate. This is simply to balance them, right now mass puppeting is a money powerhouse your ideas would make that worse. Having a tax could also open up for polices / wonders to reduce that tax.

 

[Civ'ed]

I really like the idea of making puppets easier to conquer, it makes sence in the way that puppets are less willing to put up a fight.

This gave me an idea. If you positioned armies near a friendly puppet state it fights better.
(fights as in "YES SIR DON'T SHOOT ME NOOOOOO!")

 

[WeaselSlapper]

Even if you can't control its production directly I their production should follow their focus. So if I prioritize science it will focus on library/university.

However, without direct control I would like them to prioritize happiness buildings when my civilization is below +10 happiness instead of below 0.

 

[JtW]

I like this idea. I have always been a fan of playing 'the colonial power' and I really miss it in Civ5.

The main problem I see with Puppets though (and which might be an issue with your idea of colonies) is that they contribute to science like a normal city. As a result, with all the drawbacks of an unpuppeted city, it almost never pays off to unpuppet cities. I think that puppets' population shouldn't contribute to science at the very least.

If Puppets were uneffective for science, there would be more incentive to found new cities/unpuppet.