1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Replay #2 Huge Domination with 1.4 Mio points [BUFFY]

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Seraiel, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi and a merry Christmas to everybody :)

    I've completed another round yesterday and am in the mood of writing again, so it's time for another episode of "Replay". Again, the game got accepted in HoF so was played with BUFFY and without any further knowledge of the map and cheats or whatsoever. This time, it's gonna get more interessting, as it's the 2nd round I'm posting, so I will be able to draw comparisons to the 1st round and some things went very different this game, for example I got DoWed 4 times this time in the early phase of the game, where I was still expanding, and, this time, I didn't try to crack the earliest possible domination date, but the score. Wastintime has played a pretty impressive 3.2 Mio game with different settings, I'm not gonna beat that, but, 1.4 Mio was 300k better than what I've played up to this time, and some, me too, might learn something from this, so I thought it's well worth posting.
    Again, I'm looking forward to have fun and I hope, some of the more experienced players will jump and spread some of their knowledge, so people can improve.


    Here are the Settings:

    Map Type:
    Big & Small (massive continents for more land and tiny islands which are mixed in for more seafood which is nearer to the capital for maintenance reasons)
    Oponnents: 17 Civs (Catherine, Cyrus, Hathepsud, Joao, Julius Caesar, Mansa Musa, Mehmed II, Napoleon, Peter, Suleiman, Victoria, Washington, Elizabeth, Zara Yaqob) (This time I took leaders which are suggested to be peaceful, as I wanted to reach Sushi, so Medicine, the earliest moment possible, and again no leaders starting with Mysticism, as I still haven't found a way to tech properly without the use of a shrine and don't wanna make that luck depended (i. e. throwing all the games away where I'm not able to conquer a holy city early) . Again, no PRO leaders, as them having hill cities is simply a no-go for Checker (Quechua) Rushing BUT this time, there are CRE leaders and I took as many IMP leaders as possible, even Warmonger Julius, as I wanted AI to found as many cities with as many settled GG's as possible, we'll see how that turns out later)
    Difficulty: Deity
    Map Size & Game Speed: Huge & Marathon (I post that together, as I think Huge maps are mostly ment to be played on Marathon, and, I'm still playing for points, so there's no need to make it even more difficult then there is already)
    Game options: No goody Huts (as I think they benefit AI more than they benefit the Player, might be wrong sometimes though) and choose Religions


    Here is the starting Scene:



    This looks ok for a Checker-Rushing start. As most of the forum including myself have already experienced, the early rushings on Marathon are all about commerce, as one is normally not able to even reach cottages soon enough, so we have two gold, one on which we could settle on to get some extra commerce and have a plain-hill for the bonus :hammers: . We have a few FP's so we basically got some food, what's still missing is a forrested plains hill to work, but the 2nd gold hill would also be enough, as I know from several other Checker-rushing games, that 4 Hammers giving Checkers every 7-8 rounds is normally enough to conquer up to 3 Civs.

    Now here is what I did:

    Spoiler :


    Move the warrior 1S which revealed a plain hill so settle on, and move the Settler 2S which revealed this:



    Now it's clear where to settle. The 2 Gold are reachable from the plains hill in the south and there is also a forrested plains hill which can be worked after borderpop, so basically, we got everything but "real" food this time. 3 FP's are ok for a start, but farming them will give just enough to work the goldmines, it won't be enough to get a fast growing city to make a "whipping capital" but that's ok for a start, as with HC one doesn't reach BW any time soon and all we need is some early commerce, to support the rushing (we got that with the 2 golds) and a plains hill to settle on or a forrested plains hill to work to get Checkers every 7-8 rounds (we actually have both this time, though one is only available after borderpop).

    Now here is what happened next:

    Moved the Warrior to the NE as I knew there was coast there from moving the settler (you always know where the coast is, if you see a "settle here" spot marked by Civ, as it always wants you to found coastal cities with the 1st settler), moved the settler on the plains hill, settled Cuzco, and guess what was revealed by it:



    A 3rd gold, which is supernice, as 2 golds are actually ok for rushing, but a 3rd gold is awesome, as it allows one to support 2-3 more cities in the beginning, which helps A LOT. Odd side is though, there is no "real" food on this start, all we got are the 3 FP's + the Oasis but farming them will not give enough food to support the goldmines, not even speaking of supporting further growth and other tiles. Actually, this start has got -7 :food: in the BFC, so some would even argue that it's a "bad" start, but I say it's awesome, as it got all the :commerce: we need for rushing and if a start is bad or good, is decided by the land one conquers, not the capital alone.

    Next thing, of course, I went to research Meditation to found Judaism (we are sitting on a ton of gold, aren't we :D) and worked the plains forrest first, switched then to the riverside gold for the extra :commerce: to make sure I got Judaism, giving Checkers every 8 rounds in the beginning, switching then again (after Meditation) to the forrested plains hill for Checkers every 6 rounds.



    That was the starting scene, here is the savegame if anyone wants to play along. Here are some more Spoilers for the interested, till next time, cya

    Spoiler :


    The AI cheats!




    Or: Tell me, how can the AI create a great Prophet till turn 122 if I got SH and it can only have 1 temple (so 1 Priest) max and started without Mysticism. Earliest possible date one AI could have had Meditation is 3340 as I founded Judaism in 3355, that makes 70 turns for researching Priesthood, building a temple AND getting the GP!

    You think my start is awesome? Look what Lizzy started with :D :



    4 Gems, 3 Spices and Rice. Guess who was Tech-Leader for most of the game :D

    12 cities by 1750 BC:



    Circumnavigation without Optics at 720 BC :D :



    1100 BPT at 130 AD (couldn't take 1 AD cause there was a GA) :



    Very funny Quest, build 22 temples (!) to discover Holy Mountain:



    The Temple of Salomon at the end of the round:





    Seraiel
     

    Attached Files:

  2. MyOtherName

    MyOtherName Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,526
    Spoiler :
    That one's easy: you have an Egyptian opponent. Or maybe Saladin could pull it off? And sure enough, I see both in a later screenshot. :D
     
  3. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Spoiler :

    But still then, it takes 100 turns to get a great Prophet with running 1 Priest, 50 if you're philosphical, so it must have been one of the philosphical leaders leaving only Peter and Suleiman as possibilities. Both of them are non spiritual, so they get no bonuses on building temples. You want to tell me that a non-spiritual leader builds a temple and researches Priesthood in less then 20 turns the other way round? :D Saladin and Qin Shi both later joined the games as they are liberalized Vassals, like also Boudica.

     
  4. MyOtherName

    MyOtherName Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,526
    Spoiler :
    Hatsheput and Saladin both get two priest slots from their UB -- Hatsheput's replaces the monument.
     
  5. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
  6. MyOtherName

    MyOtherName Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,526
    (D'oh! You replied before I finished editing my post. Look again)
     
  7. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Ok, that's very interessting :) I finally know how AI always makes these incredibly fast great Priests. Considering it was Hatty who got it, she had 72 turns for researching Mysticism and building a Monument, that's definately possible.

    Thx!
     
  8. Mikehendi

    Mikehendi IDHEOMHRN

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    461
    Coincidentally what Hatty did is just what I'm planning to do in my next "strange settings" game (MH03). I think I'll even beat her 2290BC date. I hope.
     
  9. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    I'll look into that. Hatty is an interessting leader, as a major part of the forum think of her being the best leader there even is, having the best starting techs, and now knowing how powerful her UB is, makes me also wanna play her some time, though I might also go for Ramesses as IND is also quite nice.

    I hope I'll see a 2-3 Civs WC-Rush!11 :D
     
  10. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,230
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Nice job configuring your map type. B&S, Tiny islands, and "mixed in" are good choices.

    I play with huts on and you should play with random events. Huts are nice to get a little cash to negate bad random events and to support the early rush. A free tech is not bad either. Don't worry about the AI getting benefits from huts, that's good too. Even on Deity, the AI is pathetic compared to you. Almost any boost they get is helpful to you. They are just your research team. Sometimes they get Alphabet really early, and then you don't have to.
     
  11. Mikehendi

    Mikehendi IDHEOMHRN

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    461
    Probably not :D

    I'm playing a variant with a mandatory 100% science slider (I instantly lose if my science slider drops), the most common methods of acquiring wealth are also blocked on top of that.
     
  12. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi, and thx for joining in on this :)

    Problem I have with turning on goody Huts is, that AI cannot only get Writing or Alphabet but also BW or Mysticism by it, and that completely screws up rushing or respectively founding a religion. Then game becomes luck dependent, and luck can turn out good sometimes, but it can really screw up a beautiful round. But I'll think about that, as today, I played a game rushing two Civs sitting on hills having Slavery, and I was successful, so I guess my Checker-Rushing simply has improved up to a point where I could deal with a Civ getting BW like in turn 10 or so. Other thing I experienced in the game, was, that no Civ was getting Alpha till 1500 BC, there I would have begged for a goody hut gifting it to someone and if someone gets Mysticism by a hut, guess what I just found out today:

    There's a tool named mapfinder :eek:

    But back to the game, I forgot some of the options:

    Climate is tropical, as someone once suggested that there are more ricepots and of course there is more grassland allowing for higher population, but again I think it might be negative as there are also less forrests which can be chopped and there's more of that jungle I hate so much :mad:

    And, sealvl is low, as I wanted to allow for maximum land, which I think is overall good, as dominating the land early enough wasn't a problem in this round as you'll see (at least that's what I think, today I found out, that Wastintime finished his game 200y earlier and I don't know what his city sizes were at that time, but we will find out :))

    I'm gonna be back in two days, as I'm going on a journey tomorrow, then I'll post the years 4000 BC - 1500 BC!

    Till then, cya

    Seraiel
     
  13. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,230
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    RE: Huge maps and tropical setting...

    There was a debate going on, and never resolved, about what map size is best for max score. Huge is the obvious first choice, but I've always argued that it's probably a smaller size (I currently think Standard is the sweetspot.) Clearly, you can get more population on Huge, but Score comes from how much population you can get in relation to the food the map provides. Study the score formula a bit and you'll see why I chose Small and Arid climate.
     
  14. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    I looked at some Arid Maps, and they are really really water-poor. There's was so much desert, I think I'll stick to tropical for the moment ;) Regarding the map-size, I only play Huge Marathon atm as it's the most fun for me, so I won't change that either ;) Anyway, the challenge you posted in the 500k Domination thread was heard, I'm up to it, and as anyone can see from the title, I'm already half way there. With your help, the other half might drop, lets see :>

    Here are the years 4000 BC - 1500 BC!

    Spoiler :


    First moves were already mentioned. This is what came afterwards:

    Cuzco, settled on a plains Hill first working the riverside gold, to speed up production, and then the forrested plains Hill, for faster Checker-production, was able to produce 5 Checkers up to 3565. Here is a Screenshot of the initial exploration of the map with the Checkers moving into place, one Checker rdy to steal the Worker from Genghis:



    Of course I could not wait and stole the Worker. It would have been better to wait a little longer and let him have finished the road, as then, Karakorum and Beshbalik would have had Traderoutes giving some extra :commerce: . Downside would have been, that Genghis, as an Aggressive AI, would have had higher chances for a 3rd Archer in the city and I think I wanted to minimize the risk on that, that's why I attacked without the Checkers even being in place. Anyway, there isn't such a high risk of him producing a third Archer when going in warmode, as he will reproduce the stolen Worker first in 99% of all cases giving me the time to move the Checkers.
    As you can also see, Beshbalik lies on a Hill, that makes it a lot harder to conquer as Archers recieve 50% Bonus for that.

    So: 3565 War against Genghis Khan begins with a Workersteal!

    When the Checkers entered the Territorium of Karakorum, the mongolian Capital, they revealed the expected 2 Archers in the City. Again, Beshbalik lies on a Hill and also had 2 Archers in it, so Genghis tried to move in one of them to Karakorum. I let him do this, as then, there would be only 1 Archer in Beshbalik, making it 10 times easier to conquer that city early. This was of course extremely risky, as 5 Checkers had to beat 3 Archers in Karakorum then, so there was absolutely no room for bad luck as Chances for a Checker against a 20% City are about 1:5 so 1 Checker had to succeed with a 20% chance and win. 5* 20% gives roughly 100% so there was a good chance this could happen, but I've also already lost 7 Checkers to 2 Archers without even killing one of them (non-hills-city of course), but this time, everything went right. 1 Checker won, 2 Checkers scratched the remaining 2 Archers badly enough that the remaining 2 Checkers could finish them of. Losses of the Incan Empire: 2 Checkers and losses of the mongolian Empire: 3 Archers + their Capital Karakorum. Gain for the Incan Empire: 2 Cover-Checkers and 1 Elite-Checker (I call lvl 3 Checkers Elite :D)

    Here is a Screenshot of after the Attack:



    I know now, why I attacked Genghis so early, not waiting for a sufficient number of Checkers: Remember Cuzco having -7 :food: in the BFC? That was why. A holy City is best used as a great Persons Farm, and Cuzco simply had too little food, so I wanted to make Karakorum holy and big.
    As you see on the Screen, Karakorum only has double Food but at least lots of trees, which can be chopped for World Wonders, so it's a little bit below average as a great Persons Farm, not really decent but I'll have to live with that and addept to it.

    I let the 3 remaining Checkers heal and took them directly towards Beshbalik, the hills-city of Genghis and his last stronghold. All Checkers are promoted, so luck isn't a factor from this point onwards. For a hills city, you have to take 3-4 Checkers / Archer if they're unpromoted, with promoted ones 3 are more then enough.
    But, luck was again on my side, I only lost 1 Coverchecker on Beshbalik in 3340 BC, might have also been 2. Here is a picture of Beshbalik:



    I first wanted to raze this city, but when I discovered the Gold, I of course had to keep it. Note, 2 gold are ok for rushing, 3 are awesome, but 4 are plain awesome, as you'll see. Anyway, this Gold is only available after Borderpop, so, you know it already. Karakorum got the holy City of Judaism, of course I took my Chance at SH again, as it's just such a nice Wonder if one plays religious, giving the earliest great Prophet points there are available. To have a chance at SH, which is normally constructed in 2900 BC - 2500 BC, Karakorum of course had to work the plains Hill Forrest, so it would remain size 1 for quite some time. Cuzco, producing the main Force of Checkers also works a PHF and Beshbalik is also Size 1, this is not really good and shows, that where is luck, there's also bad luck. Genghis cities could have been a lot larger when conquering them, normal sizes for AI Capitols at ~3300 are 3-4 and Beshbalik has some FP's, it could also have been Size 3-4 at that time, but again, it wasn't, I got 3 Size 1 Cities atm, not good, but: Where there is bad luck, there is also luck. Beshbalik didn't produce a 2nd Archer but as predicted the stolen Worker which was stolen while conquering, so, at least I got 2 Workers for 3 cities atm. That's ok, as Karakorum doesn't need to be improved for long time already having 2 Farms on the Food and all other tiles being Forrests.

    As you saw on the exploration Screen, there was also a blue Civ in the east, that's Lincoln, our next target. Why did I choose Genghis first? Because he's IMP, and he's AGG, so he might go for early BW and found a lot of cities, rushing someone having Slavery is at least tripple times as difficult as rushing someone not having Slavery, as one has to attack at least the 2 biggest cities in the same turn, or whips will make it impossible, so one needs a huge force also keeping in mind, that AI will whip an additional Archer when it sees the troops and when they enter their territory, so, if you ever try to rush someone having Slavery, take a force big enough, attack the largest cities simultaniously and prepare for more defenders then you can see in first place.

    Back to the round, Lincoln normally is peaceful, so he would not go for early BW, making him 2nd target for the Rush. Here is a picture of the American Empire and the Checkers homeing in on it:



    As you see, 1 Checker is again in Workersteal position, as this is most important when rushing an AI. Note again, an AI without Workers, will reproduce the stolen Worker in 99% of the cases, so stealing it in the first attack, saves you from encountering additional Archers produced in the war.
    And you see, Chicago again is a city on a hill, again, not good, but one has to take what one gets. Most of you will ask when this Screen was taken, it's from 3055 BC! Why 3055? Because I calculated Lincoln having 2-3 cities, that makes 1-2 Archers / city at that time, as AI tends to take the 2nd Archer from a city to guard a new one, leaving only 1 Archer in the expansion and the city the Archer was taken from, 2-3 cities with 1-2 Archers makes 4-6 Archers so I calculated with 6 Checkers for 2 cities and conquering the 3rd one with the reinforcements produced in meantime.

    Why I wanted these cities as early as possible, was the point you've already read. Karakorum produces SH, Beshbalik works a FP as the hills of it are unforrested and we don't have Mining till now (Research of mine always goes Meditation -> Mining -> (Fishing if coastal cities) -> Priesthood) and Cuzco also has to grow to work the Golds, so if I want to rush a 3rd Civ, I need some cities which can take over the Checkerproduction, and that'd be the ones of the American Empire. And, I needed some gold for the research of mining. This round was played without goody huts, which I know now is a fault, so I had literally no economy to support Cuzco working a FP + the two mongolian cities + the medium-large force of Checkers, if I haden't attacked America at exactly that time, I would have gone broke! Research was already at 0% and GPT at zero also! Would have been way easier, if Genghis wouldn't have been so poor, if I'd had played with goody Huts, and if the cities were bigger and had more Food to grow faster and support more Units.

    Again, where there is bad luck, there is luck, here is a screen of 1 turn after stealing the Worker and moving the troops into position:




    Another Worker? Why didn't Lincoln move him back to Washington where he would have been "safe" :D Guess even AI can be sloppy sometimes, of course I take that Worker also with the Checker bringing me up to 4 stolen Workers till now. Washington again is Size 2, the small cities of my foes are really a neckbreaker of this round early on as I notice know.

    3040 BC, the attack on Washington causes only one loss, and produces another Elite-Checker. It had the predicted 2 Archers in it, and having 1 win out of 2 fights again was really lucky, but things like these happen, and I would have had more then enough Checkers to conquer Washington and Boston and Chicago with reinforcements, but, I take this generous present of the game and let Cuzco produce a little slower and grow some more on the farmed FP's.
    In the same turn btw, Viccy founds Christianity.

    2935 BC, Checkers are attacking Boston. Losses are 2 Checkers, one of which being a Cover-Checker, so it again all equals out, where there is luck, there's bad luck. That were the two easy cities of America, now comes a big break, as Chicago is placed on a hill, so again, we need at least 3 Checkers per Archer in it.

    2605 BC: Judaism spreads to Suleimann, he is the first to convert to this superior Religion of ours.

    2590 BC: Chicago had 3 Archers in it, so I calculate 9 Checkers for the attack, but again, dumb AI gives me a present:



    1-2 Archers are always bound to defend a city, but if there is a 3rd one, there is a chance it can be lured out, and this was done by me, leaving Washington undefended. Lincoln could not see that there would have been a Checker to defend it when he would have reached it, and he does not know, that I'll attack now and win against him. Stupid AI, 9 Checkers against 2 Archers gives 7 Losses (!!!) and 2 new Hero-Checkers (lvl 4 Quechuas, I call those Hero-Checkers as they allow for the construction of Heroic Epic.
    Chicago auto-razes as it never was size 2, I'm not really that sad of this, as it was an underaverage city with all the plains and it would only have caused even higher maintenance, something every rushing Empire struggles with in the early times. I'm gonna refound that city later, when economy is better, and only to fill up the space, the city is bad, remember that, city without food, city having plains, bad, city without food having plains, worse.

    American Civilization wiped out, status of the Incan Empire, 5 cities, researching Priesthood stable at 30%. I just looked at the game again, if I had waited only 1 turn longer, Units would have gone on Strike, so it was really really close this time. This is the problem of playing without goody huts, conquering poor Civs (Chicago only gave 49g!) and having to attack hills-cities, where one needs 3-4 times the troops of the defender. Anyhow, conquering two hills cities is quite awesome with Checkers, try it out yourself, the 50% bonus of Archers really is stronger than you'd expect. There's a reason for my title below my Avatar.

    2460 BC: I construct SH! Damn, was this lucky again. I've seldomly seen a successful SH at that time, good that I've left out the IND leaders as opponents this time.

    2440 BC: Cuzco has grown to Size 4 and is working 2 of the 3 Goldmines, all cities have been producing Checkers so 8 are already rdy again, enough to attack the next closest neighbour, the Ethiopian Empire!

    Here is the Screen:



    You can see, research is stable at almost 30% now and Priesthood, only the 3rd tech, hasn't even finished. Without the gold, we'd be at 0% research all the time, there was no possibility up till now to even think of cottages! This is Huge / Marathon rushing, without some early commerce, you need like 400 Failgold from SH, or will be at 0% forever! Other possibility would be there, if we had more coastal cities, than I'd have gone Fishing and there would have been some extra commerce, wasn't possible this game though.

    You can also see, as the Ethiopians are creative, their Capital already has 40% cultural defense! And: Gondar again is a hill-city, it's really incredible if I think back now, how hard this round started out and how bad the land that time was. 3 hills cities and a 40% city, unbelievable I did that without reloading :>

    Enough self-aggrendisement :p

    2420 BC: Attack on Aksum succeeds with only 1 loss! Chances were 6% for that, but it happened, and I've got a new Elite-Checker and a new Hero-Checker!



    Here you see Aksum, already having some Cottages and Sea-Ressources which will make it self-sustainable, something we really need for our cities now, as research is already low enough and will get even lower when expanding more!

    2390 BC: Lizzy is the first one to be with Alpha. Karakorum is already working on the Oracle, if I hadn't succeded on that one too, I'd have given up the round, as it was playing for Highscore, and the land already was bad enough, but you'll see how it turns out.
    I trade Mediation vs The Wheel with Lizzy.

    2320 BC: I convert to Judaism, because Suleiman wants it so.

    2310 BC: Attack on Gondar, a hills city having 3 Archers (!) begins with 10 Checkers! I have only 5 losses, which is because some of the Checkers are Elite or Hero already. Checker-production in cities has already stopped, as there is no chance this round to conquer even a fourth empire (I have in some rounds, with Checkers, even against Slavery and Chariots!) . Cities begin on Worker-production, Washington is producing a Barracks as it will get the HE city soon, Karakorum is set for Growth as I need more production and bigger cities if I wanna have chance at Oracle and even at all this round, and Beshbalik is already producing a Settler!
    And: I got Elephants now!

    2265 BC: Hatty converts to Judaism.

    2250 BC: Lizzy settles directly in front of Cuzco! Later I will find out, that with this, she will take the only Horses in Range!



    2230 BC: 4 Checkers capture Zara's last City Lalibela against 2 Archers with 2 Losses. At last, a GG named "SARGON" is born:



    2190 BC: Washington is the 2nd with Alpha, I trade Mining + Mysticism vs Fishing with him

    2160 BC: Viccy is the 3rd with Alpha, I have nothing to trade, misclick and demand Writing :D She refuses and I get -1 with her :D

    2100 BC: The 1st Settler is rdy, so I can expand some further. Same turn I invest 100% in Writing, as I hope for an easy trade against Meditation with Washington.

    2080 BC: I found Tiwanktu near Karakorum where some Gems are. This city has no real Food, but I found it, because having Gems will higher the happiness limit and because it's self sustainable. On the screen you can also see Karakorum, having grown to Size 4, starving out the Oracle. The Incan Empire is up to 9 cities right now.



    Same Turn, Lizzy converts to Judaism. Religionspread looks good atm, thanks to Karakorum having a great River which connects to lots of Civs.

    2070 BC:
    I've researched enough into Writing, to trade it against Meditation with Washington. Research stops again to save some money. The Incan empire is at -4 GPT right now, still expanding further. Judaism has spread to Beshbalik, so it can produce a Monestary to spread Religion. Aksum is producing a WB to explore the coast and get some TR's once I'm possible to trade Sailing somehow. The other cities are producing Workers or Settlers, as right now, I have 9 Workers and 9 cities, which is still too little.

    2060 BC:
    I discover Lizzy building a Pasture where there is nothing, so she has Horses. I think about war, as her Capital has 4 times Gems so it could pay for the rest of the cities she has, and I don't like her having a city directly in front of Cuzco, but I forget those plans as she's a Jew, and I don't wanna piss of all the other Jews, which shall be my friends for this round.

    2030 BC: Frederick converts to Christianity, and Viccy would trade Pottery against Meditation, but I cannot give that to her, because she would spread Christianity with it, and I want as many Civs as possibly to become Jews. My only economy are still the goldmines from Cuzco and Beshbalik.
    But: I find a way to get Pottery from Viccy. I invest 2 turns with 100% in Pottery, and trade it in 2000 BC from her giving her the worthless Priesthood! At last I can build up some real economy. I have 37g left atm and the Incan Empire is at 0% research generation 8 GPT as the 3rd Goldmine from Cuzco has come online, and there are still the Gems from Tiwanktu to come, but I still want to expand further.

    1900 BC: Mehmed reaches Alpha! I trade Mining + Mysticism + Pottery against AH + Hunting. Now I realize, I should have declared war on Lizzy, because she has the only Horses for the hole quadrant of the map!

    1970 BC: Joao reaches Alpha. I gift Mysticism to him to possibly trade Meditation + Pottery against BW.

    1960 BC: I trade BW from Joao and discover, that I'm having the only Copper for the whole quadrant of the map, but it's only in the 3rd ring of Aksum, so it'll take some time before it can be reached. So I have no horses, no copper right now, and still can only build Checkers. I'm not that afraid of war, as I still have a strong Military from after the war and DoW's with these peaceful Civs are normally at 1500 BC, not earlier. Anyway, I need Archery.
    As I got BW now, I revolute to Slavery, and: I CAN CHOP NOW! Workers move to Karakorum to fasten up the Oracle!

    1940 BC: I whip 2 Settlers, Economy still being at 0% research but +16 GPT as the Gems from Tiwanktu have come online. I have to close up the empire right now to reserve some spots for later settling.

    1920 BC: I WHIP THE ORACLE!

    1910 BC:
    THE ORACLE! I take CoL and invest some turns with 100% in Alpha to trade it from Lizzy in 1900 BC! Same turn, I trade Mysticism + Pottery against Archery with Napoleon and Meditation + Writing against Sailing with Hatty, as I wanna go for the GLH!

    1890 BC: I trade Alpha vs IW with Peter and discover 2 Irons in cultural Range of my cities! So the no Copper no Horses problem has been solved partly by this moment and I can finally chop all the jungle on the map!

    Take a look at the score after the Oracle and the trades from it!



    As you can see, I'm currently spying on Mansa and Lizzy. This is due to experimenting with a new spying system I got told from "Sun Tzu Wu"! He told me, to invest enough spy-points on Mansa to see what he's researching, so I can see, what I can aquire next through trade, and after that invest all spy-points on the tech-leader, this time being Lizzy as she has quadruple Gems. You'll see later, if I'm able to produce enough spy-points to possibly steal a tech!

    1890 BC: I found Macchu Picchu. This city is to close up the Incan Empire in the west. I don't care about the east so much atm, as there is only jungle and still lots of place, but here, you can see, Cathy is already coming close.



    1870 BC: I found Ollantaytambo, also in the west. This time, it was really close already, on the screen you can see some Archers + a Settler from Suleiman, which were going for exactly that spot!



    I'm glad I got these two last cities, as they are at really good spots, having double food. Ollantaytambo also has a river, it will become the the Oxford city, which might be a fault, as Cuzco with it's three goldmines will produce way more commerce for a long time than Ollantaytambo. Later, I realized, that making Washington the HE city also was a big default, which I made, as I thought, Levees would play a role in this round, but they wouldn't, so Gondar, having tripple food and 7 grassland hills would have been a much better choice.

    If you ask yourself what the cities and the economy is doing: All cities are producing Granaries to recover from the initial whips and support further ones, I was able to produce 11 workers for 11 cities up to now which still is too little, but one can manage with so few for some time by sparing roads and settlers are higher priority atm as to grab the most space is the ultimate goal for the moment. The empire is making 3 GPT atm and I have 120g left for some further expansion, and, as I have Fishing, the coastal cities will produce some more commerce in the future. Research is at 0%, so the empire is really at it's limit.

    1880 BC: Mansa converts to Christianity, I didn't like that then, but from playing some other rounds till now, I know, that Mansa will trade everything as long as one isn't the worst enemy of him, religion gives -3 or -4 but it doesn't affect trades with him directly.

    1850 BC: Joao converts to Christianity, Washington to Judaism. Religion spreads much faster now the Civs got Sailing, as there are way more possible TR's now.

    1840 BC: Peter is willing to trade Masonry! This is something exceptional, as AI's normally aren't willing to trade that before GW + Mids have been constructed. I thought I'd get it from Mansa for whom I'd have some techs, but now I must get it from Peter for Priesthood! I invest the whole money that's left for research into Masonry and in 1820 BC I'm able to trade it from him! The empire is at 0 GPT right now, having 6g left! It's really time I get GLH and some cottages and a shrine for a better economy. Workers have already moved to Aksum and I 2pop-whip a lighthouse with max-OF into the GLH and after that hardcore chop.

    1800 BC: Cathy converts to Judaism!

    1790 BC: The Islamic Missionary I got from CoL reaches Napoleon and I make him Islamist. This is to cause some trouble in that region, so they won't cause trouble on me. Same turn, Viccy discovers Monotheism and founds Hinduism. She was the one, that already founded Christianity, she really goes on religion this round.
    Btw.: Hatty is the first to declare war on someone, she's picked Mansa as a target, which is not good, as I want Mansa to research to trade with me, but it seems as if he has had a really bad start this round and that we won't hear much from him :<

    I've explore the map some further, so here is an overview for you:



    And an Overview over the Religions:



    As you can see, my western neighbours are Jews, and most of the Civs are Jews. The key to this, was early Missionary production, getting Sailing asap, and having a holy city besides a river that reaches some other Civ. In the east, I got the Christians, so I have to focus my units there. Viccy and Frederick are quite mad on me, Viccy for me having demanded writing from her, and Frederick for the close borders, but I'm still only producing no military Units up till now, as I think it will still take some time, before they declare on me. It would be easier, if I was spying on them and could see their power ratio, but I can not due to the spy-system from Sun Tzu Wu, allowing me only to spy on Lizzy for the moment.
    You can also see, that Lizzy is already researching Calendar. I am researching nothing atm and still want to expand, so I fear, I won't get the MoM this round, a Wonder I really really want to have, as I play heavily relying on GA's, but as MarigoldRan said, it's enough to have it, when the GA's start, so at least, MoM won't be far away if Lizzy builds it.


    1750 BC:
    GLH completes! This will allow me to expand like crazy on the coast, cause every costal city with GLH is self-sustainable! In the same turn, I found Corihuayrachina to close up the empire on the east, a city being the resettle of the American city of Chicago.



    Economy is at +5 GPT with 0% research having 12 cities right now thanks to the GLH.

    1730 BC: Julius Caesar declares war on Peter and Sulei and Mehmed declare on Julius, they were probably bribed as Peter is high in Tech. Same round, I spread Judaism to Mansa and after that gift him 1 ton of techs to make him pleased and after that Jewish! I really want him to play a part in this role, as my main aim still is to reach Sushi the earliest moment possible, and I need Mansa for that!

    1710 BC: Sulei completes the GW. A World Wonder I almost never build, the Granary and Library in Karakorum were more important to me.

    1690 BC: Catherine joins the war against Julius.

    1650 BC: Economy has recovered a little thx to Cottages, being at +21 GPT with 0% research atm. Still at 12 cities.

    1610 BC: Julius converts to Christianity! Now their war is going to last forever.

    1600 BC: I join the war with Julius, cause Catherine asks me, and there is no way Julius can get some units to me, as he would have to walk through Sulei or Catherine for it. Of course I piss of the other Christians by this, so I have to be even more careful with Viccy and Frederick in the east and start producing some troops. Next round, I even become worst enemy of Frederick!

    1570 BC:
    FREDERICK DOW's ME!!! This came without any advance notice, there was no fist shown from BUFFY! I instantly settle the GG in Washington and start to whip some Archers, as well there as in the border-cities themselves! I can't whip walls, because I'd need 2 pop for that, not having Stone till now, but, I get them through a double-whip: I whip an Archer, giving me 50 OF in the Walls, and some turns later, I can 1pop-whip the walls.

    THX FREDERICK THAT YOU MAKE ME KILL SO MANY POPULATION!

    1560 BC: Washington is the first to discover Currency! I need that from you Washington! Don't wanna trade? Hm :/

    1550 BC: I upgrade 2 Checkers to Axeman and Spearman. THX FREDERICK THAT I CAN SPEND ALL MY SAVED MONEY!

    1540 BC: Mansa is willing to trade Polytheism, good that he's in the game now. I'm waiting for him to have something worth more than that to trade. Frederick shows up with an exploration Chariot at my Borders in Gondar:



    1530 BC: I kill the Chariot, even before it could get sight on the troops of Gondar. I guess that is, why suddenly in 1520 BC, Frederick is willing to make peace *lol* . This was a short war that costed me quite some pop. I will have my revenge for that!





    A Screenshot of the Empire at 1500 BC!



    12 cities, 15 Worker, +13 GPT at 0% research, still lots of room to settle!



    Those were the years 4000 BC - 1500 BC! Attached is the Savegame of 1500 BC, I hope you enjoyed reading and watching the rushing and the expansion like there is no tomorrow, I'm looking forward to your critique, see you next time,

    Seraiel
     

    Attached Files:

  15. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,230
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    first tip. turn on resource flags b4 taking screenshots
     
  16. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,230
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    oracle currency.
    build pyramids
    you shbould have cs and paper by turn 200. research needs more attention.
     
  17. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    I always forget...

    Here is an overview of the cities in 1500 BC again!

    Spoiler :


    Capitol Cuzco:





    Not working the 3rd Gold till now because Food was so low on this start.

    GP Farm Karakorum:





    Actually working the 2 unimproved Wines to help out with commerce which was already too low.

    Missionary and Commerce City Beshbalik:





    Commerce City Boston:





    1st Military City Washington:





    Working the plains-Hill, which was a fault, it should work the grassland-Hill instead.

    Commerce City Aksum:





    Should perhaps work the Incense-Cottage instead of the Iron to help further with commerce.

    2nd Military City Gondar:





    Again, this city should have been 1st MC as it is way better then Washington, but I thought Levees would play a role, which they wouldn't.

    Commerce City Lalibela:





    This city never got the Marble, until I killed Frederick, even though I did everything to push Culture in it. I don't know how this is possible, but Frederick could have a Monument and a Library at Max in his City, I had both + an early Terrace in Lalibela and never got over 40% Culture on the Marble.

    Commerce City Tiwanktu:





    This city would do better then expected. Even though only having a FP + a plains Cow as Food, it would turn out as quite a good city aswell in commerce as also in production.

    Commerce City Macchu Picchu:





    Don't pay attention to the Worker chopping the jungle-Banana not having Calendar yet instead of improving the Rice, it was his destiny to do that, I didn't told him to, I'm sure...

    Sooner Oxford-City Ollantaytambo:





    This city was one of the very few good cities in this round, having an awesome river and double Food. Again, it was very close I got it, Suleimans Settler was 2 moves late on that spot. Don't pay attention to the fact that it's working 2 unimproved tiles, workers were already improving that tiles asap, it's a newly founded city, and it would whip a granary some turns later. Anyway, this could have been done better.

    And the last City, also Commerce but mainly to close up the empire in the east and choke some coastal land, Corihuayrachina (speak that out if you can :D) .








    Data about the Incan Empire at 1500 BC:

    Spoiler :


    • 12 Cities
    • 15 Workers
    • Army of 13 Checkers 1 Axeman 1 Spearman 4 Archer
    • 10 Terraces, 3 Barracks, 1 Lighthouse, SH, Oracle and GLH



    Additional Data:







    And an Overview again this time with Ressource Flags on:



     
  18. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    This is a good tip, as I never thought about it. It does need the self-tech of Alpha anyhow which was absolutely impossible on this map I think, as the cities I conquered literally gave no commerce at all, lay far away from the Palace so maintenance was high, and I had to build so many troops to conquer the hills-cities and I had no gold from GH to pay a little for that, Units even went on Strike one time. I think it might be possible though on other maps, as I experienced that I can tech a lot more with GH on and having more coastal cities that produce commerce via Fishing, it does risk the GLH though if one skips Sailing and Masonry in favor of Alpha, which also afflicts the spread of Religion which happens mainly to the "trade on rivers and coast" from Sailing which are heavy downsides.

    I will, even in this round, but could you please explain again why? Is it only the +3 beakers one gets from running Specialists?

    Turn 200 would be now, so 1500 BC. Only way to do that, imho, would have been, not conquering the Ethiopian Empire and keep the Incan Empire smaller with lower maintenance allowing for more Research. This would again have the downside that I would sit next to a creative neighbour, not have as many cities allowing for super-high-production later on again allowing earlier Domination. Are you sure this is even possible on Huge / Marathon?

    Seraiel
     
  19. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Here are the years 1500 BC - 500 BC!

    Spoiler :


    I've already had my first war, and am glad, that it was over so soon, as I'm still in the expansion phase. Here is what happened afterwards:

    1470 BC: I start on Settler-production again, I still want to have more cities.

    1440 BC: I found Huamanga! This city is far away from the empire, you can see the borders of Gondar and Corihuayrachina on the screen, but I wanted to block that spot from Mansa as it's really great, having a river and tripple food.



    1430 BC: Finally I get my great Prophet from SH + Oracle! He builds the Temple of Salamon, instantly giving +26g which is a BIG ease on the economy. I restart the research with 100% into Currency as I hope to trade it from Peter against CoL. Karakorum hires 2 Priests as I want another great one to lightbulb Theology, which is great Tradegood.

    1410 BC: I get -1 with Frederick due to one of this ridiculous marriages. This is just what I needed...

    1400 BC: Cyrus converts to Judaism. Same turn, I trade CoL vs Polytheism with Catherine, to lay that ontop of the CoL vs Currency Trade with Peter to fast up the trade.

    1390 BC: I trade Poly + CoL vs Currency with Peter. My economy cheers, it's like instantly having +30g more every turn. Currency really is the most important tech after Alpha in early times.
    Same turn, I'm able to beg 150g of my friends. This is really one of the greates tricks I've ever seen in a video from AZ, 150g for nothing, thx mates!
    Same turn again, I whip another Settler, even though city has already tripple whipping anger, but space is getting rare, I gotta be fast.

    1380 BC: I trade Math from Washington against CoL, this Tech really starts to pay out now.

    1370 BC: As I got Curriency now, I can trade Ressources for Money. I instantly get +10 GPT from Ressource-Trade. This, in addition to the 30g I get from the extra TR's, already makes 40 GPT only from Currency!

    1340 BC: Even though Frederick is still very very mad on me, he declares war on Suleiman. Suleiman bribes Mehmed against Frederick, this is good!
    Same turn, I found Vilcas. On the screen, you can see, Lizzy has settled up another city in the upper left corner near my empire, and Viccys Archer was already waiting for the Settler to arrive here, but I was faster again. This city again is at a great spot, having tripple Food which is marked, as Ressource Flags didn't want to show up.



    This hoever makes the Incan Emprie vulnarable to Attacks from Viccy and Frederick, but I'm going to concentrate Troops in those cities and build Walls, I'm quite sure I can defend against their possible attacks.
    Same Turn, I whip a Library with max-OF into the Pyramids in Karakorum as I now got Stone!

    1290 BC: The Library in Cuzco is finished and I got enough money now, to research Aesthetics with 100%.

    1280 BC: Catherine captures Arretium from Caesar, he's gonna be the poor dude this round having strong enemies and getting gangbanged by them.

    1270 BC: Washington lightbulbs Philosophy and founds Taoism.

    1250 BC: Workers are chopping for the Mids. I found a good Trick here: If you're not sure, whether you will get a wonder or miss it by some turns, you can set a city to wealth or research and by that accumulate the forrests and only release this accumulation when the sufficient number of hammers is reached, all at once!

    1230 BC: PYRAMIDS!
    Same turn, I trade CoL vs Monotheism with Joao. I instantly switch to REP / ORG.

    1220 BC: Karakorum hires a 3rd Priest

    1190 BC: Viccy completes the ToA! I had no interesst in that Wonder, not even for Failgold, as I still don't have Marble.
    Same turn, I trade Monarchy from Mansa against CoL! This already makes 6 techs from only trading 1 tech! Anyhow, I have to give 200g on plus of that trade, even though Monarchy requires way less beakers. Mansa really is a rip-off artist!
    Joining the war against Julius btw really starts to pay out. I'm getting huge diplomacy bonuses with the other Jews being in war with him, so they're friendly and are willing to trade everything with me. Otoh, not even a single troop of caesar has reached my borders, as he would have to walk through Suleimann or Catherine with them, I'm safer then safer!

    1180 BC: Viccy must have been really pissed of by me founding Vilcas, she declares war on me! Again, this was without any Fist to see or whatever, it came as surprising as could be. As I've reached Aesthetics now, and am in war, Reserach stops again to make it possible to upgrade some Units.

    1170 BC: Mansa wants Aesthetics from me for free *lol* . I hate this sucker, cause it's always the same with him. Once you get a tech that only you have, guess who's at your door same or next turn: IT'S MANSA! Oh Well, what a surprise, if I wanna give my worthiest Tech to you, trading it around with everyone, for free? NOEZ, GO AWAY SUCKER! I really hate this attitude from AI as you can see, what are they thinking? I never got a bigger tech from AI by free, there are only few times, I got a small tech from AI, what ed up code is this, that they always ask for the worthiest thing you have, the only tech you have nobody has, it's really bad code, I say that to you, it's bad code causing bad behaviour. No I'm nerved because I have -1 with Mansa.

    Same turn, I again do an interessting Trade. It's CoL + Monarchy + Monotheism vs Metalcasting with Suleiman! Thx Sulei for researching that!

    Viccy is really getting on my nerves. She had a Chariot and an Archer in the back of my empire, so while she's still sending no units to the cities in the east, that are quite well protected with at least 2 Archers in everyone, I have to upgrade the Checkers in the back of my empire to Spearmen that will never be of any use to me, only because she had a single Chariot in my back! THX VICCY FOR MAKING ME SPEND SO MUCH USELESS MONEY YOU *****!



    If you look closely at the screen, you know what the Chariot is going to do with the next move. Yes, it's going to steal a Worker from me, something I still have to few from!

    1160 BC: I Trade MC vs Calendar with Joao and vs HBR with Peter! Are you now getting the drift, how I get my techs? ^^

    1150 BC: Peter declares war on Frederick.

    1140 BC: Viccy still did not send a single unit to my border cities. What the hell is she doing? Let me have a look with the few of my own units: Oh, Reading has only 2 Archers in it? Checkers Attack!
    Reading conquered and auto-razed in 1120 BC, Viccy still refuses to talk. Now I got some more land to settle. As Upgrades are through now, Research goes with 100% to Literature now. I got the money from trading around some techs with people that were shown as being dangerous for me by the war-advisor, like giving MC away for 400g + getting Diplo-Bonuses a.s.o.

    1090 BC: Cyrus declares war on Mansa. Same turn, I have to stop deficit research and go back to 40% as no Civs are having money atm I can trade for.

    1080 BC: Peace with Viccy :> This was a funny war, I lost 1 Worker, she lost a city, no units were really send to me :> Same turn I'm again able to beg 100g from my mates :> Good mates, especially Hatty is always willing to give something, she's really a great friend.

    1050 BC: I found Vilcabamba at the place where Reading was. Incan Empire up to 15 cities atm.



    Same turn, I whip a Stable with max-OF into HE. This whipping with max-OF into a national / world Wonder is really an awesome trick to not get the penalty when whipping the Wonder itself.

    1030 BC: Frederick makes peace with Suleiman.

    1020 BC: TGL! I have chopped it together, not having Marble, this costed a lot of forrests in Karakorum...
    Same turn, Frederick makes peace with Mehmed.

    1010 BC: Catherine makes peace with Caesar, as the War seems over, I do the same. I'm at +5 through the same War now with Sulei and Catherine.
    Same turn, I whip a Forge with max-OF into Parthenon. I do wanna get that also, even though I still don't have any Marble till now.

    970 BC: Mehmed declares on Hatty! Now what is this, Jews against Jews? Same turn, I get a great Engineer.

    960 BC:
    Lizzy vs Mehmed, looks like Hatty bribed her. Suleiman and Peter have Aesthetics now, so it's time I can consider trading it. Same turn, I trade MC for 420g to Lizzy so I can research some turns into Construction, hoping for an easy trade. I also trade Aesthetics for 410g to Cyrus.

    950 BC: After having researched enough into Construction, I'm able to trade it from Catherine against Aesthetics. I GOT ELEPHANTS NOW!

    930 BC: I trade Aesthetics around for more than 1k Gold.

    920 BC: MAUSOLEUM OF MAUSSOLLOSS! Didn't think I'd gonna get that one too, as Lizzy had Calendar so much earlier, but, I did it :>
    Same turn, Suleiman constructs the Colossus. That was fast, if I would have wanna get that, I would have had to waste my precious great Engineer. GZ Sulei.

    900 BC: HANGING GARDENS! I really like that Wonder on Huge maps with so many cities, it's only 450 hammers invested and gives +15 pop in this case which is relative to 1350 hammers through whipping!
    Same turn, Napoleon declares war on Mansa. This is really not going well for Mansa this round, he's getting gangbanged.

    890 BC:
    Again 1k Gold through minor Tech-Trades allowing for some unit-upgrades and more deficit research. I'm making +25 GPT through Ressource Trade atm. and the Temple of Salamon is making +42g atm.
    Same turn, I discover an Island near my territory having Marble and Horses! That was lucky! One turn later I found the city of Vitcos there.



    And, also in 890 BC: I discover that Catherine and Mansa want to settle behind my borders! I'm not gonna allow that, I have to get out more Settlers...



    870 BC: THE PARTHENON! Again, without Marble XD . Same turn, Frederick declares war on Cyrus. Looks like another World War is developing.

    860 BC: I get about 1,5k Gold through Techtrades, after AI got their Failgold from the Parthenon. I'm also able to trade the rest of Theology against Aesthetics with Lizzy, who's also friendly now. I use the GE to rush the AP and find out, that it can be constructed within one round, always thought at least 3 were necessary. I gift some Techs to the Jews so I have +4 from Techtrade with them, I wanna make sure they vote for me and not Suleiman, but you'll see how that will turn out...

    850 BC: AP! Caesar vs Washington and I'm able to trade Philosophy from Washington against MC Theo and Literature! Again I get about 1k Gold from Techtrade for my deficit research, mainly through trading Theology with Catherine for 810g getting her friendly also.

    840 BC: I trade Literature + Philosophy vs Feudalism with Lizzy! I also trade Philo + 1100g vs CS with Catherine! I've won the Music-Race in the meantime, but I don't trade that, at least not yet. I also trade Philosphy now for 410g to Sulei to get him to friendly status also. Diplomacy looks awesome atm.
    I switch to Vassalage, as my Capitol is no good for running Buro, and Vassalage is often the better Civic for Huge maps. It allowes me to construct lvl 3 Units in Gondar. I'm also constructing Shwedagon Paya for Failgold atm.

    830 BC: Suleiman becomes Leader of the AP! Now this is really odd, but he had even better relationships with the other Jews than I had. I guess he didn't get asked for techs so many times -.- XD
    I also found Andahuaylas and Ica in the back of the empire to stop Catherine and Mansa from settling there.





    I also trade CS + Feudalism with Sulei against Compass and Drama + an embargo against Caesar. And: Mansa is willing to become a Vassal, but he's in war with 3 other Civs. I give techs to Catherine and Hatty so that they stop their war against Mansa, so that Mansa is only being in war with Napoleon when I vassalize him. War against Napoleon starts. I gift tons of techs to underdeveloped Mansa so he can defend himself, and hope, he will make a good Vassal for this round. Odd, he only got 5 cities, but it's Mansa, he's a great Trader, lets see what he can make out of the techs.

    810 BC: Mehmed wants me to go to war with Lizzy and Lizzy wants the same the other way round. This inter-jewish war is really ing up my relationships.
    I also found the city of Arequipa, also in the back of the empire where Cathy and Mansa wanted to settle.



    For those interessted: I'm getting +37 GPT through Ressource Trade and +47g through the Temple of Salamon atm. The Incan Empire is at 19 cities right now, researching paper in turn 269.


    790 BC: Absolutely nobody has gold I can trade for to do more deficit research, research drops down on 40% again.

    780 BC: HE has been finished and the first War Elephant is rdy! Same turn, I finish the STATUE OF ZEUS which will make Napoleon very happy, I'm sure XD Production continues with Angkor Wat for Failgold.

    750 BC: Mansa has Gold! I'm able to trade 700 from him, allowing further deficit research.

    740 BC: Washington constructs the Dai Miao.

    720 BC: I finally get Paper and the Worldmap!



    710 BC: Circumnavigation through map-trade XD



    700 BC: Mansa was able to aquire Machinery somehow through trade! He's back in the game now, I trade instantly against Philo + Music. He really is a rip-off-artist -.-

    690 BC: I attack Tours, without any Siege. Have minor Losses and conquer the city. And: I get a great Scientist XD Just shortly before Oxford, perfect timing.
    But, where is luck, there's bad luck. Suleiman got a great Artist, and he used it, to culture-bomb my planned Oxford-city, so I have to use the GA from Music to culture bomb back.

    680 BC: I found an Academy in Ollantaytambo which shall become the Oxford city. Here is a Screen of it from 680 BC, it has developed quite well:



    Same turn, I'm able to aquire 1k Gold through Map-Trade! Try this out, maps are worth quite much, I don't mind trading them away, not at all if I get so much gold for it. Paper really rocks.

    640 BC: Peter builds Chichen Itza! Next turn I get 1329 Failgold from it XD

    630 BC: I found the city of Nasca! 20 cities now!



    And: Joao seems to have been also constructing Chichen Itza, I'm able to get 600g through techtrade from him allowing even further upgrades and deficit research.

    610 BC: I attack Reims and conquer it without Siege and without losses. It were the upgraded Checkers which are Macemen now, that rocked hard. CR-Pwnage.

    600 BC: Napoleon is willing to capitulate. I accept, as I wanna fasten up the round a little and because I can gift him back his crap cities. I first tried to gift them to Mansa, because he was also sitting close, but that wasn't possible, so I cannot extinguish Napoleon and must accept him as a Vassal. He's underdeveloped, but will get quite good after I gift him tons of techs. Never thought he was such a good researcher.

    FYI: +52g through Ressource Trade and +57g through Temple of Salamon!

    590 BC: Lizzy peacevassals to Catherine! Guess she knew, she would have been a target of me soon.

    570 BC: 500 Failgold from Shwedagon Paya.

    520 BC:
    I found Atico!





    Those were the years 1500 BC - 500 BC. Doing a lot of deficit research, still expanding further, getting great profit from Ressource trade and the Temple of Salomon, but mainly from tech-trade. I aquired 2 Vassals, and catched up, things look good atm.

    Till next time, Seraiel
     
  20. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,230
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Yea, the +3 for specialists really adds up when you have 10+ cities. The extra happy doesn't hurt either. It goes well with the Great Library which you should probably prioritize. I don't think I did in my big game, but this is where you might make up ground.

    You're probably right that Paper is out of reach by turn 200 on Huge. Tech costs increase with map size (but maintenance does go down a bit). However, you should be a bit closer to paper and start working on a G. Scientist to bulb education (at the same time getting 9 cities ready (library/terace) to build universities.

    Currency isn't just about the trade routes, it lets you build wealth to keep research going.
     

Share This Page