republic

[cronullasharks]

Thanks Aabraxan ,

Totally agree with you re. offence as opposed to defense....It`s just right at the start I find them handy cause I`m bored of the archer rush(pretty much I only play China) and i find it unrealistic as In reality I would not risk my whole civ like that to get a good start which would wipe me out if I failed and I really hate re starting .

Where to put them when i get home? sounds scarily like I need to know something about computers....I literally know nothing but Ill ask around and figure it out.

With your patch i know you can upgrade to special units and industrious is now toned down.....Do you find the fact you can build heaps of horseman and upgrade to riders compensates for the slower workers? Is china stringer or weaker in the patched version?

 

[Aabraxan]

Thanks Aabraxan ,

Totally agree with you re. offence as opposed to defense....It`s just right at the start I find them handy cause I`m bored of the archer rush(pretty much I only play China) and i find it unrealistic as In reality I would not risk my whole civ like that to get a good start which would wipe me out if I failed and I really hate re starting .

Like I said, walls have their place. I rarely find barbs to be enough of a problem to worry about walls early on, but I will occasionally build them later in the game to help hold a beachhead, chokepoint or some such.

Where to put them when i get home? sounds scarily like I need to know something about computers....I literally know nothing but Ill ask around and figure it out.

With your patch i know you can upgrade to special units and industrious is now toned down.....

Wait, wait, wait. Are you talking about a patch or an expansion? I think the patches are available as a download off CFC, but not the expansions. Play the World and Conquests are the expansions, which have additional units, more civs, etc. The patches just fix bugs, IIUC.

And unfortunately, I have Civ 3 Complete, which came with all expansions and fully patched, so I don't have a clue where to install patches.

Do you find the fact you can build heaps of horseman and upgrade to riders compensates for the slower workers? Is china stringer or weaker in the patched version?

It sounds like you're talking about expansions, not patches. And I've never actually played vanilla, so I don't know if China is stronger or weaker.

 

[cronullasharks]

Thanks a million for helping with my questions.......looks like a trip to the computer shop is in order...... I`m gonna try not building walls at the start now to see how it goes and check out the advantages of those vital early shields used elsewhere............ Thanks again , seems like Im hijacking this thread so I`m outta here

 

[D0NIMATRIX]

Asking questions is the mark of a good player. Hijacking a thread is good if you ask smart questions or write good answers (which you do).

BTW if you have phone service, you can just use the modems to connect to the internet.

 

[cronullasharks]

Getting back on topic , I think its worth considering something

You COULD wait till you have temples/markets etc
You COULD wait till you have three or four luxuries hooked up
You COULD wait to start and finish that little attack you have been salivating to do
You COULD do anything..........but if your goal is to ruthlessly win the game as soon as possible then you have to get over the need to have your empire a perfectly happy , growing , culturaly strong work of efficiency and get your .... out of despotism

IMHO the extra food alone that a republic provides will outweigh any unit costs or initial tax hikes that you will have to do , and in most occasions better than monarchy....in monarchy you are pretty much just as broke as despot.but you cant whip.

So take the plunge , switch govs , use the slider , use specialists , irrigate like crazy.....it wont take long till your economy improves.. you will be surprised how easy it is to endlessly warmonger under republic and the corruption benifits are huge not only in improving your own empire but making your conquered territory quickly useful

 

[Nergal]

Luxuries are highly important and lots of workers get everything roaded. Monarchy can be better depending on the situation though. Its the unit costs that get me. And I have had worse corruption under Republic than Monarchy.

 

[Tone]

I'm a bit late to the party but hopefully not too late...

Where to put them when i get home? sounds scarily like I need to know something about computers....I literally know nothing but Ill ask around and figure it out.

If I can do it, then anyone can! A patch is easy to install so if you don't buy complete, don't worry. Once you've downloaded the patch, open it and it will put all the updated files in the correct places for you. All you have to do is restart your computer when it is done. Nothing to it.

With your patch i know you can upgrade to special units and industrious is now toned down.....Do you find the fact you can build heaps of horseman and upgrade to riders compensates for the slower workers? Is china stringer or weaker in the patched version?

Having read that you are talking about C3C vs conquests, there is a thread already started in this forum recently that talks about the two different versions. You might find it worth reading. In response to your question, upgrading horsemen to riders is worthwhile but costs more than in vanilla. Upgrade cost for vanilla are 20gp for every 10 shields whereas it's 30gp for every 10 shields in C3C IIRC.

Oh, and finally if you are worried about highjacking a thread, start another one. The guys that you have found helpful will smell out your new post wherever it is!

 

[cronullasharks]

Luxuries are highly important and lots of workers get everything roaded. Monarchy can be better depending on the situation though. Its the unit costs that get me. And I have had worse corruption under Republic than Monarchy.

I`m pretty sure that corruption is always worse under monarchy.....could it be that under monarchy your cities were celebrating we love the king day(which reduces corruption) due to the military police?

 

[AznWarlord]

Personally I would prefer Monarchy, although the only reason I get into wars is because I play with Aggressive AI. Republic's a good government though, I just hate shelling out cash early in the game. Actually, I hate shelling out cash anytime in Civ. I also hate increasing the lux slider, I'd rather have science, as AI's never trade with me (because they are aggressive and they war with me, lose and get pissed off), but in Monarchy, you have MP on your side, so if you hate throwing away money, you should try out Monarchy.

Come to think of it, I never tried Feudalism before, maybe I'll use it in a game where I start off in Jungle or Tundra.

 

[cronullasharks]

I`f I have done a fair amount of whipping early and have maybe only 1 luxury but a decent sized army then its monarchy all the way....

But often I play non religious industrious civs......So I cant just change gov at will I have to plan for the future.....and my roads are pretty well developed so I can make the most of the commerce bonus

 

[Tone]

Don't let the percentage fool you. The effect of having more cash to start with means that you will research much faster with Republic, even if you have to have the lux slider at around 20%.

BTW you're right in your previous post; corruption & waste can be a bit higher in Republic than in Monarchy. However this is because of the fact that you have more cash to start with. The net effect is that you still end up with more cash to play with after deductions have taken place.

 

[cronullasharks]

Totally agree with you Tone.....In fact sometimes Ill stay in despotism for a bit longer rather than switch to monarchy....I figure if I`m going to be broke then I want to be able to whip.

 

[Aabraxan]

Personally I would prefer Monarchy, although the only reason I get into wars is because I play with Aggressive AI. Republic's a good government though, I just hate shelling out cash early in the game. Actually, I hate shelling out cash anytime in Civ. I also hate increasing the lux slider, I'd rather have science, as AI's never trade with me (because they are aggressive and they war with me, lose and get pissed off), but in Monarchy, you have MP on your side, so if you hate throwing away money, you should try out Monarchy.

Sounds like something else is going on with your trading. I keep the AI aggression set to normal, though, now that you mention that, I might have to bump that up. Anyway, with the AI at normal, I'm usually markedly more aggressive than the AI and they still trade with me.

As far as governments, yeah, Republic means that you've got to use the lux slider a bit, but it also lets you move all those MPs onto the front lines!

 

[Nergal]

These figures are from a Regent level game, playing Germany in Conquests. I got Monarchy, went to Anarchy, traded for Republic, went Medieval and got Feudalism as my bonus tech, all in the same turn. 4 turns of anarchy later I got the option to switch. As its the first time I've had the opportunity I saved the game and compared each option.

Rep Mon Desp Feud
Science -9 -25 -21 -32
Entertainment -15 -3 -9 -3
Corruption -19 -11 -13 -11
Maintenance -13 -13 -13 -13
Unit costs -36 -7 -0 -0
Income 94 62 59 64
Turns to Monotheism 50 39 46 29
Lux Slider 20 10 20 10
Research 10 40 40 50

In all cases I went back to my cities and reset any entertainers etc and ran at a marginal profit per turn, I think it was about +3 gpt in all cases. Republic does have a huge gain in Income but its offset by the unit costs. Given more growth and more worked tiles it would have been ok but the situation wasnt right. I was expanding insanely due to a lot of islands I found empty, a couple of Civs had had 'accidents' and another was in the process of having an 'accident'. As a result I was having to ship out lots of ambulance crews to help them. Unit costs were on the increase and I had settlements I couldnt work, one island was 60% Marsh and Jungle which takes a lot of time to work. My best results for any Civ have been the Russians, switching to communism worked really well. I dont think there is any sure fire goverment, it totally depends on your current situation.

 

[Tone]

Republic does have a huge gain in Income but its offset by the unit costs. Given more growth and more worked tiles it would have been ok but the situation wasnt right.

I think that this is a fair point but as you get close to Republic you should start planning for it. Make sure that you have plenty of settler builds, create quality units and be prepared to lose some of those military units that you needed in despotism as you simply cannot afford to have a large number of units in a small empire.

If you plan to be in Republic before you get there rather than react once you get it, you can manage the situation much more effectively. Apart from a few special cases such as AW games, I always use Republic and go to it as soon as I possibly can.

 

[Aabraxan]

Nergal, if you've still got the save, would you mind posting it? While I can always compare governments in CA2, I don't think I've ever had that many options when I emerge from anarchy and I wouldn't mind being able to open up the game to take a peek.

 

[Nergal]

There you go Abrax .. you should be able to do it from this one

 

[Aabraxan]

Cool. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Nergal]

No problem, trade with the Scandanavians for Republic and the Sumerians have monarchy I think. If you want to play it, I blitzed Scandanavia and Sumeria before anyone else met them. Netherlands is about to be defunct. The Iroquois turned up in a caravel exploring, offered communications with everyone else but I had the option to offer communications with Sumeria right up to their demise. It turned out to be a really fun game, domination victory.

 

[iambenben]

I rarely use the lux slider, but that is because I havent played past warlord :|