Reputation questions...
- Thread starter 12ozProphets
- Start date
<--- banging self over head
I had no idea that you had to actually 'declare' war before attacking, or that your units should be outside the enemy's territory when you do so. My usual practice has been to march up my stack-of-doom then declare war when the enemy told them to leave. Oops.
Renata, contrite
I had no idea that you had to actually 'declare' war before attacking, or that your units should be outside the enemy's territory when you do so. My usual practice has been to march up my stack-of-doom then declare war when the enemy told them to leave. Oops.
Renata, contrite
satchel
Prince
yep - the practice you have described will croak your reputation in short order. Sometimes it provides a tactical edge, so there are reasons to do it, as long as you bear in mind the cost.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
To be pedantic, the issue is not whether your troops can enter his territory in the same turn, it is only if they do enter his territory that you get a rep hit.
SanPellegrino
Wanderer
read several times about it, tested it by reloading, found it not true. My rep stays the same when I enter troops the same turn I declared war.
I believe it works like this:
GOOD WAY
1.) Make sure ALL units are OUTSIDE of enemy territory. If so:
2.) Contact AI
3.) Select "declare war" option
4.) Move troops in enemy territory and attack as needed
5.) Hit "End of Turn"
BAD WAY
1.) Move units into enemy territory
2.) Declare war
3.) Attack as needed
4.) End turn
All that matters is whether or not your units are in the enemy's territory you wish to declare war on, BEFORE you actually declare war on them. If you've taken care of that, you can move your troops in right after war is declared, be that on the same turn, or 10 turns later -- it doesn't matter.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
Hmm. I understand what you're saying, and I was only going on what I'd been told.
I would be interested to see the save.
Are you aware that the rep 'stauts' with other civs is not discrete but continuous? i.e. a civ can be 'Polite' and you can take a rep hit and still be 'Polite'?
I would be interested to see the save.
Are you aware that the rep 'stauts' with other civs is not discrete but continuous? i.e. a civ can be 'Polite' and you can take a rep hit and still be 'Polite'?
SanPellegrino
Wanderer
you spoke to me or Protaxis? I think I have the save but I am at work right now and it's pretty big (huge map) but I can upload it, I think. But I guess every game will do because I don't look at the attitude of the civs but at my approval rating under F11.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
@SanPellegrino:
I was talking to you, but it appears that you are under a misaprehension:
F11 : 'Approval' rating is the percentage of happy citizens.
Check Bamspeedy's demographics article for more info on the F11 screen.
I'm afraid the only way I know of to find the AI's attitude is from the diplomacy screens.
Back to the original subject, I am 99% certain I can remember a game where my first act of war hit these conditions and loads of civ's suddenly hated me. If you want the before and after saves I can dig them out as it was a tourney game and I'm sure I have it archived somewhere.
I was talking to you, but it appears that you are under a misaprehension:
F11 : 'Approval' rating is the percentage of happy citizens.
Check Bamspeedy's demographics article for more info on the F11 screen.
I'm afraid the only way I know of to find the AI's attitude is from the diplomacy screens.
Back to the original subject, I am 99% certain I can remember a game where my first act of war hit these conditions and loads of civ's suddenly hated me. If you want the before and after saves I can dig them out as it was a tourney game and I'm sure I have it archived somewhere.
Catt
Emperor
I don't have a save handy (also at work) but I routinely declare war in the fashion described by Protaxis, and take no reputation hits whatsoever. Sometimes attitudes are negatively affected by my aggressive behavior against my neighbor, but my reputation remains unscathed.
The only way I know of to confirm reputation status is seek (1) an RoP with a civ, or (2) seek to buy an asset on a per-turn basis, and watch the reaction of your advisor. Attacking with units in territory (but not moving into territory after a declaration during the same turn) makes an RoP much more difficult to get, and sometimes impossible (Advisor: "They would never accept this deal" -- if actually proposing it anyway, the civ will usually respond with a reference to your treachery against XYZ civ). Attacking with an active RoP in place will always (in my experience) make an RoP with others impossible for some time. Breaking an active trade deal will generate "never accept such deal" when you next try to exchange a per-turn asset (gpt, resource) for a one-time asset (tech, cash).
BTW, without extensive testing, I get the sense that declaring with units in territory damages your rep, but declaring with units in territory and an RoP destroys your reputation.
A final thought -- it is quite easy to declare honorably, but accidentally break deals, causingg rep damage. This is particularly true in the Middle Ages. Trade routes are fragile and few, and a hasty declaration can cause a trade deal with a third party to be broken (causing a rep hit) simply because a "neutral" harbor, coastal water lane, or road falls under enemy control -- you suddenly have no trade route with a third-party trading partner.
The only way I know of to confirm reputation status is seek (1) an RoP with a civ, or (2) seek to buy an asset on a per-turn basis, and watch the reaction of your advisor. Attacking with units in territory (but not moving into territory after a declaration during the same turn) makes an RoP much more difficult to get, and sometimes impossible (Advisor: "They would never accept this deal" -- if actually proposing it anyway, the civ will usually respond with a reference to your treachery against XYZ civ). Attacking with an active RoP in place will always (in my experience) make an RoP with others impossible for some time. Breaking an active trade deal will generate "never accept such deal" when you next try to exchange a per-turn asset (gpt, resource) for a one-time asset (tech, cash).
BTW, without extensive testing, I get the sense that declaring with units in territory damages your rep, but declaring with units in territory and an RoP destroys your reputation.
A final thought -- it is quite easy to declare honorably, but accidentally break deals, causingg rep damage. This is particularly true in the Middle Ages. Trade routes are fragile and few, and a hasty declaration can cause a trade deal with a third party to be broken (causing a rep hit) simply because a "neutral" harbor, coastal water lane, or road falls under enemy control -- you suddenly have no trade route with a third-party trading partner.
I'm really glad I found these forums --- all kinds of stupid little things the manual never tells you that can kill your game. In my current game, I've yet to declare war at all, actually. The AI keeps ganging up on me. My reputation's shot anyway, though; I've had 3 lux deals with faraway civs killed when the guy in the middle joined the dog pile against me and broke the trade route. Good thing that in 3 more turns it'll be modern armor (me) against infantry (all of them). And with everybody in communism I'm likely to keep that advantage a while. Rome dead, Germany dead, Zululand dead; 102 Iroquois infantry polluting the world at last count, where to begin ....
Renata
Renata
SanPellegrino
Wanderer
thx Anarres, too bad I didn't read that before I made a silly thread in the general forum...
But I guess it only affects the attitude of other civs not your rep, I fight a lot but break no deals and I never had the AI not willing to trade with me.
I, too, have got a few questions concerning reputation in PTW and would appreciate your comments.
1. Unlike in the regular CivIII, PTW(v1.14f) enables you to abandon your own city, now - does that harm the reputation? Maybe it's considered as some kind of atrocity or something!?
2. In PTW(v1.14f), I have played through to the modern times without wars or any pacts or anything like that with anyone. My military is strong compared to others (so says my M. Advisor), and I haven't broken any agreements with anyone. Nevertheless, well... they're all annoyed at me for some reason. Could it be a bug, or is there another reason for this...?
3. Similar to my 1st question, but in regards to the conquered tribe/nation. When my forces defeat 'theirs' in combat when invading a certain city, the M. Advosor pops out and asks whether I want the city to myself, or raze the city. Now, if I choose to raze it, and I choose it a lot, is my reputation damaged?
Thanks in advance.
PS. Great forum!
1. Unlike in the regular CivIII, PTW(v1.14f) enables you to abandon your own city, now - does that harm the reputation? Maybe it's considered as some kind of atrocity or something!?
2. In PTW(v1.14f), I have played through to the modern times without wars or any pacts or anything like that with anyone. My military is strong compared to others (so says my M. Advisor), and I haven't broken any agreements with anyone. Nevertheless, well... they're all annoyed at me for some reason. Could it be a bug, or is there another reason for this...?
3. Similar to my 1st question, but in regards to the conquered tribe/nation. When my forces defeat 'theirs' in combat when invading a certain city, the M. Advosor pops out and asks whether I want the city to myself, or raze the city. Now, if I choose to raze it, and I choose it a lot, is my reputation damaged?
Thanks in advance.
PS. Great forum!
Tzar:
When you raze a city, you do take a rep hit. Razing is thought of as a "bad thing" (though I find it necessary sometimes ). I heard somewhere that even abandoning one of your own cities is bad.
If you're doing a lot of city razing, that could be why they're annoyed at you.
When you raze a city, you do take a rep hit. Razing is thought of as a "bad thing" (though I find it necessary sometimes
). I heard somewhere that even abandoning one of your own cities is bad.If you're doing a lot of city razing, that could be why they're annoyed at you.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
Catt: Indeed, I was wrong. I was getting Reputation and Attitude mixed up 
satchel
Prince
Tzar, to clarify what Protaxis said, the reputation hit comes from killing or enslaving foreign population.
So if you raze a captured city, you will take a rep hit.
If you abandon your own city, you will not take a rep hit unless there are more foreign population points in it than your own population points.
This last point has been discussed here at some length and was clarified by a Firaxian. Try running a search for threads on abandoning cities.
So if you raze a captured city, you will take a rep hit.
If you abandon your own city, you will not take a rep hit unless there are more foreign population points in it than your own population points.
This last point has been discussed here at some length and was clarified by a Firaxian. Try running a search for threads on abandoning cities.
Skullbones
Captain
What about when an AI declares war on you when you tell them to leave your territory? Do you have to wait until the next turn to attack to avoid a rep hit, or can you start attacking his cities that turn?
