Request for a Civ4: BtS "Intermediate" Succession Game

[Jamesds]

pigswill, I'm amazed at your teching speed. You've outmatched my super-economy (by far) - colonies are amazing! I think you made a good point at the end...but would that stop you?

Rumours of this thread's demise have been somewhat exaggerated.

You can say that again !

 

[pigswill]

Serious game hassles today. Loaded 3.13, then discovered that 3.13 eliminates pseudo-diplomacy/diplomation which has been my entire strategy (and hopefully almost achieved). Uninstalled BtS, reinstalled it (basic version because 3.02 has disappeared from in-game upgrades), lost all my saved games, had to load my save from the forum.

Edit: More game hassles. After uninstalling BtS3.13 I couldn't run warlords so had to uninstall and re-install that (and then it worked again). Sheesh.

 

[Jamesds]

Serious game hassles today. Loaded 3.13, then discovered that 3.13 eliminates pseudo-diplomacy/diplomation which has been my entire strategy (and hopefully almost achieved). Uninstalled BtS, reinstalled it (basic version because 3.02 has disappeared from in-game upgrades), lost all my saved games, had to load my save from the forum.

Edit: More game hassles. After uninstalling BtS3.13 I couldn't run warlords so had to uninstall and re-install that (and then it worked again). Sheesh.

Wow, so you mean the new patch won't let you vassalize all the AI and win a domination victory? Oh, you said "diplomation" - does that mean your vassals won't be forced to vote for you in the UN? Can they still count towards a domination victory? Or could they ever?

 

[pigswill]

Diplomation is where you use force to obtain a large enough population (including vassals and colonies) to win a UN majority without needing any votes from anyone else. Its a diplomatic victory but its not gained through diplomacy.

In 3.13 you have to have someone else (i.e. an independent AI, not a vassal or colony) vote for you to win diplomacy. I think it was primarily changed to stop the easy AP victories but it nerfs diplomation in the process.

If you vassalise all the AI then you'd end up with a conquest victory unless you reached the threshold for domination first.

 

[Erathelix]

Played up to 1820:

Spoiler :

I had some time to think about my game and the direction it is going and had following toughts:

- only way to win with maintance is via colonies
This lead to immediate liberation of China -> Darius.
- Try to conquer few cities, vassalize everyone else tactic was my next idea
I vassalized Washington and liberated all his cities.
My next target was Toku.
I moved forces and attacked from 3 sides.
Toku has been vassalized.
I started moving forces to pull the same move at Sury when Caesar declared on me.
25 turns ended leaving me with 2 options:
1. Postpone crushing Sury and go for Caesar.
2. Vassalize Sury asap and then go for Caesar

 

[Jamesds]

Nice moves Erathelix! You've got Washington too, and ready to move. That's looks a really good game for now (I haven't looked at it yet).

 

[pigswill]

Played another 25 turns, taking me up to 1870.

Spoiler :

Got mass media in 1828, cash-rushed UN in 1838 and declared on Sury in 1830.

In 1850 my plan falls apart . Jules has second largest population, Sury and Bill gang up to support him and Jules becomes SecGen .

The war against Sury grinds on. Its pretty one-sided and up to 1870 I've taken 5 cities including capital. But will he capitulate? No sirree, he will not!

Picked up artillery (1844), biology (1850 (lightbulbed with 2GA)), and just finished AL(1868). Going down to 0 research to upgrade units. Probably don't really need to as my casualties so far have been one cannon but I want to keep up in power to deter Jules from intervening.

Built some wonders partly for happy, partly to show off: (UN), Eiffel, RocknRoll.

I'm going to carry on coz I want to get this finished so I can load 3.13.

Erathelix: looking good though maybe slightly behind on tech.

Spoiler :

If you check out the power chart you might find both Jules and Sury harder going than George or Tok. Good luck .

 

[pigswill]

Got there in the end,

Spoiler :

Captured another Khmer city in 1878 and Sury capitulated.

Declared war on Jules in 1882, pretty slow start. George actually captured 2 cities from Jules. I captured Roman Chicago in 1901 and Cumae in 1905. No losses during the campaign.

Discovered railroads (1888) and combustion (1900) then stopped research. Spent money on cash-rushing. Got Dai Miao (1872), Broadway (1872), Pentagon (1901), Hollywood (1905).

Eventually the vote for SecGen came round again in 1902. With the slow accumulation of cities and vassals Hammurabi won the vote comfortably, went for diplomatic victory in 1905 and this happened:

Score 43k.

 

[Jamesds]

Well done pigswill! Now we shall see how the other games compare. Could you post an autosave a turn before the victory or something? Just for comparison reasons. I'm looking for either a domination victory (quite possible IMO with my fast teching) or spaceship as last resort. Don't know about 'diplomation' if, as you say pigswill, it is not possible in 3.13.

 

[pigswill]

Save added. Just upgraded to 3.13 (without Bhruic's patch (yet)) and loaded my save. Still got a diplo victory with vassals and colonies. So I was totally wrong.

 

[Jamesds]

Save added. Just upgraded to 3.13 (without Bhruic's patch (yet)) and loaded my save. Still got a diplo victory with vassals and colonies. So I was totally wrong.

Well, that's good to know. They'd vote for you anyway, since they have the best relationship modifier with you don't they? Even if they weren't forced to vote for you, they probably would for that reason. Maybe I shall consider this as a possible victory then...

 

[asaegyn]

here's my next turn set (up to 1870).
[file]http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/10009/asaegyn_turn_305_AD-1870.CivBeyondSwordSave[/file] *** can someone tell me how u put these as attachments? not just a link? ***

game should be over shortly. I haven't installed 3.13, as I have 2 games in progress and would rather finish them with the same gameplay mechanics.

Spoiler :

i started a golden age soon after with one of my 3 merchants.

switch from mercantilism and nationhood to free market and free speech.

combustion in. switch to fascism.

pay darius ~1100 gold to stop trading with Caesar and Willem.

Trade him Steel for Sci Method and his gold, then Steam Power for Biology. Sort of one sided trades in his favour, but i don't really mind, he's teching at about 10-12 per turn, i'm in 4-5 turns per tech.

I've decided i'm going to go after Caesar, he has the highest power rating, and is on the largest landmass. Vassalizing that land mass should secure me enough land hopefully for domination, or if that fails, for UN sneak victory. Have him start researching medicine. I'm running into health issues in a lot of my cities (all those factories and coal plants).

fascism in, oil hooked up, mass upgrade galleons, start building some destroyers. Move 16 units (4 transports, with 1 destroyer escort) to the far side of rome. (i.e. left wise). not enough for everyone to fit on, they will spearhead a second semi-simultaneous attack on Washington.

Select path towards Industrialism (goes through Physics and Electricity).

War declared on Caesar, first city, Arpinum easily taken at the cost of 1 cannon. Split attack in two going along north coast and along south coast. Waiting for counter.
...
Waiting for counter attack - none forthcoming. Caesar starts researching Steel. It's infantry + cannons vs grens, knights, war-elephants and longbows.

Darius gets medicine, i put him to work on artillery. Trade medicine for assembly line + fascism. Again onesided, but it's ok.

Second city falls. Troops in position to take out washington on turn 306 .

Industrialism due in 3. Will start golden age when it is in, build lots of tanks to easify the takeover of that giant continent, then research mass media to be able to get UN as insurance. With these mass wars, free market becomes less important, and i'll likely switch to environmentalism for even larger cities.

Willem is teching well, but is still far behind. Darius is a great partner, and i have him backfill / open doors to whatever techs i need. I hope he'll trade me artillery though, since the AI often likes to hold onto that one, even if u research 90% of it yourself. Oh also, many many great people born, i'm waiting for two consecutive GA's to round out the game (3 GP, then 4GP). In reading these boards I've seen people often use GPs very quickly, and don't like to have them sleep around. I'm sure if the math is worked out that is best, but i like these late game GAs. .

Spoiler :

here's the demographics. I'm at 2000 commerce, which is where Jamesds was 25 turns ago!

A somewhat formidable tech lead, though not that great.

cities are doing well, some war weariness, but i'm mulling a swithc to Police State + Environmentalism during hte next golden age, though perhaps Universal Suffrage would be better.

great game pigswill. i honestly don't think in the end your decision to vassalize china early on made a huge impact on the game. i haven't had a chance to look at your most recent round, but the round ending at 1820 i looked at, and our economies etc. were in very similar shapes. i look forward to seeing all of the other games.

as with pigswill, if u guys don't mind, i'm gonna play ahead cuz i also would like to patch to 3.13.

cheers,
asaegyn

 

[pawelo]

Very nice game pigswill

I will continue mine like asaegyn tomorrow and on saturday, and report with some more news as soon as they come

Btw, i'm already in 3.13. I hope it doesn't matter too much...

 

[pigswill]

asaegyn: couple of options for uploading saves.

First one is scroll to top of the page, select 'upload' half way along the toolbar, browse, locate file, upload then copy the link in the box into your post.

Second is to select 'go advanced', scroll down to the bottom of that page and select 'manage attachments', browse, locate file, upload file.

 

[pawelo]

Hey

Going for the next 25 - pretty calm turnset.

Spoiler :

Global strategy:
Continue eco buildup, target Biology & Industrialization, strengthen oversees invasion naval force, get enough money for Tanks as soon as available.

I won't go into details, this being very calm & build one.

Here is my tech path:
Communism (Great Spy - preparing to bomb someone) - Biology - Physics (Great Scientist - asleep & waiting for a GA opportunity) - Artillery - Electricity - Steam Power - Assembly Line - (Military Science from JC for Steel - I prefer him as a friend) - Industrialization due in 5.

Two cities went for Frigates/Galleons ( I don't know if we can upgrade them when transports/destroyers are available, otherwise we will go with them escorted by a more powerful one ). I got some Artillery, and I think set research to 0% as soon as Industrialization checks in.

I have no target yet - waging pros and cons. I would gladly sweep Washy and Surya - JC will be too powerful and may be a worthy partner against Washy, and then go for Willem. Anyway, I think the next turn set will be more fun

I could also wait for space - I have double Willem's research potential and no one will match the ss production when it will check up. But I'm keen on trying the end game war - I tend too much to cut this off going for space and starting the next game...

Achievements:
Two new cities - the deer spot south of Akkad and the fishing China village
Statue of Liberty and Ironworks in Borsippa.
West Point and Kremlin ongoing (truly peaceful wonders, i swear )
I got a nice event - Akkad popped an additional point Thanks Solver!

At first, the overview of my empire and the neighborhood:



Next the usual demo, which is nice :



So, the next part will be mostly war I think. Maybe tomorrow... I'm impatient!
I have no one wearing a big "Hit Me" t-shirt already, but Washy is the closest to have one.

explanation: Imageshack lagged too much today...
edit: it worked better few minutes later

 

[asaegyn]

i finished the game very aggravatingly.

it took me about 55 turns to actually do it from 1870, mainly because i messed up the timing of the UN. it was built while i was in the middle of conquering Caesar and Washington, so Sury became SG. It was some 30 turns later that the election *finally* came up and I was able to vote myself in.

By this time, the middle continent had been conquered, alex had been created where once rome and america were, and i kept all of sury's cities except for 1. Caesar and Sury were vassalized. I vassalized Caesar while Washington was his vassal, and i thought it would transfer to me, but no. Washington would not capitulate afterwards either.

I also realized that had i not created a vassal on that giant continent, and kept the cities for myself, I actually could've achieved domination and the win much sooner.

I don't have any screens because i was too frustrated by mistiming the UN and having to slog through another 30 or so turns.

A short summary, got tanks, and cities started falling super quickly. got flight as well, and the bomber + tank combo just rolled through the continent. Sury surprisingly never tried to stop the war against him. If i had not created Alex, I probably would have had to set most of my cities to wealth so that i wouldn't run bankrupt.

anyhow, here's the save 1 turn b4 victory.

cheers, tho in the end it turned out to be an aggravating victory .

***
@pigswill, thanks the "Go Advanced" was what i was looking for.

 

[pawelo]

Here I am, reporting a late space win - 1994 AD.

I agree, I have left over the domination plans - though every single thing was in place to achieve it. Maybe it's lack of time or the prospect of tedious intercontinental troop movements...

Anyway, in 1870AD I decided to go for space, and give a shot to the corporations.

Regarding civics, I adopted US and Emancipation, in addition to the free speech,market and religion. My eco skyrocketed pretty well, research was in deep black while running at 80%. I priviledged space techs, maintaining my defenses up to date to dissuade every neighour.

I got almost every single late game wonder, with the principal being this one :



I tried to win through diplomatic vote, but failed miserably - they just seem to prefer Willem to me - fortunately Willem missed the win by several votes, otherwise I would look pretty stupid

I founded and spreaded pretty well Corporate Jewellers with HQ in Borsippa. I managed to spread it to almost every AI. It's a nice gold boost, though it comes rather late.

My second corp was more impressive, and allowed me to speed my space ship a little bit - Mining Inc.

Anyway, after my crappy initial events, I got several nice ones. Best of are hereafter (I think it's thanks to Solver ):





Several turns later, as my space ship was almost finished, Willem, JC and Surya declared war on Washi, so I joined for fun. I managed to have several modern armors and decided to get myself a city in America ( I was a little bit annoyed hitting just enter, building up my prod/research and railroading every possible square ), which led me to this picturesque sight:



Next turn, with Seatle being Babylonian, I settled for peace.
Spaceship was sent in turn 404, due in 10 turns.

Here is the empire overview the turn before the arrival:



On the next turn, it was finished.
Score-wise, it isn't very great - 13989 and Abraham Lincoln status, well behind a domination score.

This game was great learning various styles of play. I really appreciated it and hope you did appreciate it too

Thanks Jamesds for organizing this event, and I hope you will gather us for another one (on Monarch maybe ?)

Cheers everyone!

 

[Jamesds]

This game was great learning various styles of play. I really appreciated it and hope you did appreciate it too

Thanks Jamesds for organizing this event, and I hope you will gather us for another one (on Monarch maybe ?)

Cheers everyone!

Yes, thanks pawelo - this certainly has been fun! Thanks for continuing this through, you are the only player remaining (along with me of course) from those that began this SG! I do like parallel SGs best, they offer a little more competition, since we can compare how each player does in the same situation - and I'm a bit competitive at nature .

I've learned a lot, and as a result, have tried moving up to Prince in Civ, I'll see how that goes. I'll get my finished game in at a later date, can't play BtS as easily now, since my DVD drive isn't working properly, and the DVD can't be validated. It's at these times you wish you bought the steam version or something...

EDIT: Oh, and well done on your game, pawelo, and asaegyn!