Request for a Civ4: BtS "Intermediate" Succession Game

It looks like this game is slowly dying :(

I had the same feeling as you, and I would like to continue our tries till the end.

I don't know if it is the fact we are all overloaded with family/study/work, or is it the SGs we have on the side, but the discussion is pretty limited in this thread.

Also, at this point of the game, having continued for so many turns each one of us on our side, I really think it's difficult to make a clear choice about whose game went the best.

Here is two options we can go:
- play our game till the end, and share the result with everyone
- recover our former vote/play one concept
I would like to know what you think about these options.

To play another 25 with the same saves will make it only more difficult to choose afterwards.
 
hello,

any of the dominating type victories (un backdoor, conquest etc.) seem to work.

i would be fine with either scenario, tho with a slight preference to vote. in terms of discussing strategy, given the divergence we've all taken, i would imagine that is contributing a bit, since everyone's game has its own particular twists by now.

if the point of this thread was to play from the same point, and see how we each develop given the same start - then i would suggest that voting should be what we go back to. i mean, we can all continue our own games on our own if that is what we prefer.

****
edit:

also, i think we've waited long enough for jamesds? i suggest we decide which avenue we want to take (vote or continue), and have our votes in by today or tomorrow at the latest, and he can take part in the subsequent round (my apologies jamesds).

****

cheers,

asaegyn
 
Hopefully jamesds will turn up soon with his latest round played and posted.

I'm quite enjoying my game and would like to carry on. More importantly from a learning viewpoint colonial expenses is a new feature introduced by BtS and I think it would be instructive to compare different approaches to domination wins with colonial expenses included.
 
Awww, please don't wait for me, I'm going to have to skip this round :(. Just continue on, pawelo may once again elect himself leader ;). I'm thinking that since the main part of the game (the start) has been properly analysed, the final half could progress quite quickly, maybe each continuing one's own games to the end to see who's strategy actually worked out in the end - with updates every 25-30 turns or so.

Edit:

I did say you could continue earlier, I hope you weren't still waiting for me! But thanks all the same :).
Jamesds said:
I'm really sorry to make you guys wait, so much has been happening. Just continue the discussion, and I will post mine ASAP. Feel free to continue if that's what you want to do.
 
Well, despite my above message, I've rushed through the last part of this round which I hadn't yet finished. I've no time to report, I will hopefully do that soon - at least I got my save in though, you can look at it.

Highlights:

Washington declared war on me near the end...hmmm...
War with Toku has led me to capture 2 of his cities so far

Techs:
Constitution > Chemistry > Steam Power > Steel > Scientific Method > Physics > Biology (1 turn completed so far)

I'm in representation for extra science from my specialists.

Report:
Spoiler :

231: Construction --> Chemistry

232: Change from Hereditary Rule to Representation for extra science boost from my many specialists. This takes 0 turns since I am in a GA (if I remember correctly...)
A bonus event:
Spoiler :
SS-2-0.JPG


234: Chemistry --> Steam Power

239: Washington is getting pushy...
Spoiler :
SS-2-1.JPG

I have entered the Industrial Era!
Spoiler :
SS-2-2.JPG

Steam Power --> Steel

240: I gift Education to the Khmer to preserve our relations. It's amazing how advanced our civ is...we discovered that many turns
Spoiler :
SS-2-3.JPG
ago :eek:
Great Scientist born in FloodPlain city
243: Another event
Spoiler :
SS-2-4.JPG

244: Open Borders with the Dutch at last.
Spoiler :
SS-2-5.JPG

Steel --> Scientific Method

246: Chance for peace, unfortunately, not just yet...
Spoiler :
SS-2-6.JPG


248: Scientific Method --> Physics
GS builds Academy in Babylon
Capture Satsuma :D
Spoiler :
SS-2-7.JPG

SS-2-8.JPG


251: Great General born
Great Scientist born in Beijing
Seems we are not terribly powerful...but just wait...soon our excellent economy and fast teching will make us the most powerful by far
Spoiler :
SS-2-9.JPG


252: Great General is incorporated into Beijing as a Great Military Instructor

253: Washington declares war, attacks copper city with 2 trebuchets (easily fought off with my rifleman)
Spoiler :
SS-2-10.JPG


254: Master Blacksmith in Babylon results in +1 :hammers: in Babylon's forge
Spoiler :
SS-2-11.JPG

255: Physics --> Biology
Capture Nara
GS born in Babylon (from being the first to discover Physics), joins as a super-specialist


OK, sorry about the wait. I'll be finding the time as I get more aquainted with Uni life :).

EDIT: Report added
 

Attachments

Ok, guys, lets go for the next 25.

You can either continue your game, or another player's one.

Most of us, given the comments, seem favorable on continuing our own games - to the good and the bad ( as in mine, where Cyrus, my colony buddy, has already managed to get my best friend JC angry :mad: ).

I will be playing this one this evening, and reporting as soon as possible.

We will compare than, given the same start few turns earlier, who did it the best since then ;)
 
To get this one up and going again, here is my turnset :)

Though I haven't made a detailed stuff this time, I hope my overall game is pretty clear.

Here you are:

Spoiler :


I recovered my empire at war with Toku and JC, suffering very heavy WW issues. Pretty stuck eco-wise.

So I planned to end this Toku war by capturing his two remaining cities, and gifting the whole landmass to a fellow colony. Pigswill colo tactic proved its force, so I gave it a try too.

First obstacle - Toku.

I got the two cities, Nara and the holy Osaka, with only two Cavalrys lost. I also lost two trebuchets in transport. anyway, in turn 261, Toku's landmass was, well, no longer Toku's ;)

And we have this fellow taken over the new empire :



Here is the maya land, plenty of japanese cities :



On the same turn, we got the war with JC over again, and everything could just come back to normal. WW was over, we could flowerish again.

I decided to order a party ( GA triggered with a GS and a GP ) where several of my older units where definitely lost... Anyway, we have a full bunch of splendid rifles to defend our cities.
I ordered the troops back in Borsippa, offering some muskets and captured workers to Pacal.

In turn 263, a Great Engineer is born for Borsippa, and starts already to document himself on building women in steel holding a torch above the head. It might prove useful :D

At last we discover something : Steel comes by in 266, followed by Constitution four turns later. In the meantime another unaffected GE is born in Beijing, and Pacal comes by for the first trade Steel for Scientific Method :)

In turn 274, realizing how backward my civics are, just on the turn after the GA end, I decide to revolt massively ( for three turns ) to Representation, Slavery, Free Speech, Market and Religion.
The research gets a major boost, and nothing can stop our growing empire.

Democracy is discovered in turn 278, followed by Corporation in 280.
Unfortunately ( is it beacause of the patch ? ), the GE in Borsippa only manages to put 920 shields on the wonder, so there are still a few turns to wait. Anyway, the second GE is in Borsippa too, in case someone got to Democracy in the meantime.

I have ordered two settlers, one more to follow them afterwards.

Three cities will be settled next :
- the fishing village south of Beijing for late GP and commerce
- the deer city south of Akkad, well for the deer :)
- the filler between Borsippa, Dur and Babylon

City screenie before leaving :



And the demo usual screen:



As for the next part, well, it's too late for Cavs - Washy and JC has gotten to Mililtary Tradition. We will wait for tanks for the invasion on the main continent, making sure our eco is marvelous until then.

I think going after Willem for my late war. The b****rd is going for Cultural, having three religions in every city... We have to raze one of his legendaries before he achieves it. And he could be manageable with Cavs, so it might be a nice alternative.

Beware in your games.



And how went yours ?
I hope everyone is still here to play/compare :)

See you soon to debate (hopefully ;))
 
I am just going to play my game, thought I'd check for updates, and 3.13 is out!! But, lets all wait until we have completed this turnset before we update, to keep things fair.

Can't wait to upgrade though! :goodjob:

Thanks for submitting your game so soon, pawelo :)
 
I am just going to play my game, thought I'd check for updates, and 3.13 is out!! But, lets all wait until we have completed this turnset before we update, to keep things fair.

Oops, I updated this evening before playing...
Can everyone update already for this turnset, if you have no problems with it (some threads relate a problem with the BUG mod for instance) ?

Sorry :)
 
Here's my report and save for turns 255 - 280 (without patch 3.13....). You'll also see I added a brief report to my above game post as well.

Spoiler :

258: A nice random event
Spoiler :
SS0.JPG

Sury declares war on George (who is currently at war with me) - this is good, since he won't be able to concentrate his forces against me, leave me to continue developing :).
Deal with Caesar, pig for corn (I need more health bonuses..)

261: Biology (farms +1 :food:) --> Railroad (extra production, my civ needs it)

263: Oops, Nara (Japanese city) has been recaptured by them. I "liberate" it the same turn ;)
Spoiler :
SS1.JPG


264: Japan Capitulate! This is as good as conquering and making a colony IMO (and easier, since I don't need to waste more resources) since he is actually ok in relationships with everybody else (+1,+1,-1,+1). I gift him Gunpowder and Printing Press, trade world maps, and get Open Borders (for the first time in the game). I also return Izumo to them, it's not a useful city to me.
Spoiler :
SS2.JPG

267: Random event leads to +3 population in Cyan City
Spoiler :
SS3.JPG

268: Railroad --> Democracy (for my economy, switch to Universal Sufferage in the near future). I really don't want to get Corporations yet :(, that would mean the GL is obselete, and we'd lose 1 trade route in almost ALL cities :eek:.

271: Liberate Nara to Japan, the revolts are too often, and I don't really need it.
Bonus event
Spoiler :
SS4.JPG


Trade education to Toku for 190 gold

272: Democracy --> Combustion (get some oil and destroyers on the seas, leading to better military units)

274: Random event offers peace between me and Washington, with a +1 relationship boost, I say no - I've got a city to capture first.
Spoiler :
SS5.JPG


277: Combustion --> Communism (Espionage)

278: GM born in ClamFish :mad: - the chances were so for it being a prophet or engineer...now I can't have the Golden age I wanted :(. Instead I add the GM as a super-specialist to Babylon, which is the pinnacle of science and wealth in our civilization.

280: Communism --> Medicine (seems Sid's Sushi needs medicine, so this is a good path to take)

Demographics:
SS6.JPG



EDIT: After loading with Patch 3.13 to get a demo screenie, I just noticed how I was actually rather at a disadvantage having not updated :(. My economy is now no longer excellent, it is completely amazing! I did build lots of Customs Houses, and they have had their bonus doubles - woohoo - so, next time guys, lets all agree before we jump into a game changing patch or whatever. I would have upgraded earlier, but I didn't see any mention in pawelo's post about him having upgraded...oh well. You'll just have to imagine my game with loads more gold, or maybe an extra technology...just take that into account!

EDIT2: Erm, pawelo - you've got an interesting game going there, but I can't really study it properly without a save ;) - also, thanks for short and sweet report!
 

Attachments

@ jamesds
Nice events :) I hope mine were like this during this game :sad:
 
i played last night, without a patch.

here's my set and save http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/10009/asaegyn_turn_280_AD-1820.CivBeyondSwordSave
Spoiler :

goals -

military - finish off japan, get darius started
begin preparing task force for other continent.
decide where to start.

technology
finish assembly line and start on cannons, work towards combustion + industrialism

economy - wait for moment to pick next GA

** turns

Miliary Highlights

so i ended my last turnset taking three japanese cities, and establishing darius on that continent. With the creation of darius, 6 rifles (2 in each of his cities) spawned, allowing me to use my garrison units as fresh attack troops. I split my forces in two, one with trebs heading towards Kyoto, and a group of 6 rifles to Kagoshima.


assembly line checks in just as kyoto falls, (having attacked with abandon and losing 2 rifles to CG3LB). now upgrade all rifles in my territory on island to infantry. The rifle group at Kago w/o siege support had iffy odds (~77%), so I send them back to become infantry. cannons will be available very shortly as well. for some reason though, i can't liberate kyoto to darius - is there a minimum number of turns one has to wait before giving additionally cities to new colonies?

Rest of Japan falls easily. Chase Toku onto two islands and raze one, keep another arctic one. Just as turnset is about to end, i am now able to "liberate" old japanese cities to darius. i do so.
the ~12 veteran infantry from japan, alongside 6 vet cannons are amassing on southern persia to be taken on their next war.

With those two mfg/mili techs in, i have built factories in almost all cities, and began work on the pentagon. In addition, 6-7 more cannons, alongside 6 infantry and a few machine guns have been amassing to kickstart next campaign. ~20 sieges + 20 other should be enough to spearhead two campaigns in whoever is attacked.

Throughout this set there were several trade away "old" tech for gold opportunities, but they are unnecessary at this point - i'd rather the comp tech slower, even if it is only by 6-7 turns. No one is willing to attack anyone else for any tech though, even though they are all pleased with me. (Except Washington)

i think having gone into emancipation at the beginning of the last turnset has really hurt all the other civs. they must be well into the penalty, and in my set have only just begun researching constitution.

Right now the infantry / cannon combo would be facing it seems at worst muskets. Rifling is probably 8-10 turns away for any of the rivals, meaning one of them could fall very soon. I have had Darius research economic techs - Sci Method / Biology. While I got Railroad, and now Combustion. Following it's completion, i will get Industrialism. Once I have selected who is targeted, I will bribe to Darius to stop trading with everyone else, and Trade him Steel / Assembly Line for Sci Meth / Bio.

The question is who to attack. I think the time is ripe for my second GP inspired GA. It should get me over the hump to industrialism, whereby i can pump out tanks who would at worst meet infantry / cannon combos, tho likely only rifles / cannons.

Pawelo's post about Willlem's cultural victory is making me think I should perhaps attack him first. However, getting a foothold b/w Sury / Jules via colonizing Washington is also very tempting. Upon liberation, the 2 new infantry that would appear in each city would be very good against whatever they might throw back, allowing continued aggression with a colony that can hold it's own. i would likely keep whichever heroic epic / ironworks cities i get, and liberate everything else. a trend of my more recent conquest / domination games is also perhaps founding mining inc and getting units every ~1-2 turns.

the game should be over soonish.

here are pics of Darius' new lands
darius0000.JPG



the tech situation against the comp (they can't see many of the techs I have yet). I'd also always thought Nationalism was a pre-req for democracy. But it's shown as something they can research, even though they want Democracy.
techs0000.JPG


and the demographics.
demog0000.JPG


as this stat points out, i'm second in economy to someone right now. i have to check the graphs to remember who, though i'm thinking that this makes them a likely candidate for my next target. get rid of anyone who poses any sort of meaningful tech rate / economy. heh, this strategy has become so spartan.

***

brief comparison:

My economy is only ~50% of Jamesds! Meaning i'm only managing ~510 beakers, compared to ~800 for both pawelo and Jamesds. Wihle that should be a quick enuf pace to tanks in short order (with a GA), and the additional population from Biology should catch up.I'm not sure why my economy is smaller. I haven't been building the Custom houses though. I hope i'm running free market! I have instead been almost exclusively focused on creating a mfg base to pump out units. Perhaps I should have maybe settled some of the new cities you guys have been as well.

***

o well great sets guys. very interesting to see where it leads.


cheers,

asaegyn

 
asaegyn said:
My economy is only ~50% of Jamesds! Meaning i'm only managing ~510 beakers, compared to ~800 for both pawelo and Jamesds. Wihle that should be a quick enuf pace to tanks in short order (with a GA), and the additional population from Biology should catch up.I'm not sure why my economy is smaller. I haven't been building the Custom houses though. I hope i'm running free market! I have instead been almost exclusively focused on creating a mfg base to pump out units. Perhaps I should have maybe settled some of the new cities you guys have been as well.

Well, currently I have ~1000 beakers I think, if you check my game. I have worked to make my economy and beaker output as high as possible, which is actually my usual strategy (ever since I began Civ as a kid, actually :) ). I win by out-teching if I can. I think I completed Oxford University in Babylon not long after the last screenshot showing my science was taken. Now with patch 3.13, it's even better!

I am impressed with your Mfg though, asaegyn - I've been trying to get my civ's production levels up, and I'm building railroads just now, and levees. You don't seem to have discovered Scientific Method yet? However you have beelined towards the military techs. Cool! I'd be happy enough for us to all carry on till the end; we can't stop now can we? ;)
 
Well, currently I have ~1000 beakers I think, if you check my game. I have worked to make my economy and beaker output as high as possible, which is actually my usual strategy (ever since I began Civ as a kid, actually ). I win by out-teching if I can. I think I completed Oxford University in Babylon not long after the last screenshot showing my science was taken. Now with patch 3.13, it's even better!

I am impressed with your Mfg though, asaegyn - I've been trying to get my civ's production levels up, and I'm building railroads just now, and levees. You don't seem to have discovered Scientific Method yet? However you have beelined towards the military techs. Cool! I'd be happy enough for us to all carry on till the end; we can't stop now can we?

true. tho I have had Darius research Sci Meth and Biology. I have been holding off trading for them because I only have military techs to give, and I want to be sure he won't trade those to anyone i'm going to be attacking. However, I don't want any - modifiers by getting him to cancel deals just yet.

Actually, I think the biggest detriment to my economy is my civics. IIRC, I am actually still in Representation / Mercantilism. I think that combo has outlived its usefulness, and Free Market would be better.

at 30% making 510 beaker, 60% would be the ~1000 beakers you guys are generating. I just need to supplement income.

Good learnings - i've always had difficulty deciding when I should switch from the Merc/Rep combo to FM / US. I think my upcoming GA would be it :P.


*** edit ***

yea it's definitely because i'm still running mercantilism. I have 0/0 trade, while Jamesds and Pawelo are 135/116 and 243/174 each respectively. I'm not sure how that translates into your commerce pool as a whole, but that definitely has a significant impact (esp with modifiers that play on city trade routes etc.).

Cheers,

asaegyn
 
Yikes, that 0/0 trade is quite bad, it means you aren't generating any commerce from foreign cities, which helps your economy a lot!! I don't like Mercantilism for that reason: 1 less trade route, no foreign trade routes (compares with free market). Ouch!
 
@jamesds
Sorry for the save.
Here it is :)
 
@asaegyn
Spoiler :

Very nice cleaning Toku :) I haven't had the patience to go after the island outpost and settled for peace before handing everything to Pacal.


I never use Merc, can someone explain me what it is worth, when you can generate huge TR income through GLight/Currency/ToA combo and Customs House later on.

I usually go for Rep/Slavery/FMarket/FSpeech/FReligion.
Yep, even later on I like my slaves until Emancipation :)
 
interesting.

i like mercantilism for the specialists it gives, early on in the "modern" age, before emancipation and matured cottages, i generally rely on a Merc/Representation combination to fuel research.

in real life, historically speaking (from what i remember for an investigation I did for my International Political Economy and Foreign Trade Policy back in undergrad), every single major economic world power to date, has had a period whereby they closed their borders to foreign competition and encouraged the development of an industrial base. The current Asian ecoomic powers, the US, UK etc. all fit the profile...

In CIV, mercantilism seems to have a sweet spot before astronomy - it is very complimentary with Rep, Statue of Liberty, and at times Caste System. However in many of my games, sometimes my economy crashes when i make the switch from Merc to FM.. Well not crash, but i have to reduce my science % by 10-20 to break even. Does anyone have a strategy / a way to tell when they should make the switch?
 
@asaegyn
I might give it a try. I never get to notice this fact from your point of view.
I think it's tailored for inland empires - I just can't imagine how you can get without foreign commerce when isolated.
Anyway, thanks for your advice :)
 
Spoiler :
I've previously posted my thoughts for this set. At the start of the set I was researching physics, Darius was researching biology, I was at war with Tok with the intention of vassalising him then looking to expand onto the.main continent.

1740. Captured Tokyo. Tok capitulated at this point. I kept Tokyo and Satsuma because they'd add horses, wheat, gold and silver to the empire. Demanded crabs as tribute. Threw Tok lots of techs and returned one of his cities.

1745. Discovered physics, got free GS. Noticed that Darius was still 12 turns from biology. WTH? Change of plan. I was going to have to do the research myself. Diverted to communism (free GSpy, SP and Kremlin).

1770 Completed SoL in Akkad (by this point I'd got coal connected so Ironworks was working properly).

1780.Communism. Free Spy. Start on electricity. Akkad started on Kremlin.

1785. War against America. Land stack of grens and cannon next to Seattle.

1790. Capture Seattle, lost a cannon :mad: .

1795. Jules captures New York between turns. Sink George's 'navy' (6 caravels, 2 galleys). George capitulates! That was a short war :lol: .

1800. Tokyo revolts (for the next four turns).

1804. Electricity>Radio.

1806. Blow three GPs on another Golden Age. Change civics to US, vassalage, caste and SP, stay in FR. Start building units (cannon and rifles) for the next war (hopefully the last).

1808. End of Tokyo revolt, garrison has gone from 1 to 4 units (still not many). Cash-rush theatre. Allocate artist. Hope for the best.

1812. Complete Kremlin in Akkad, starts on units.

1820. Radio>mass media (5 turns). 5 turns of golden age left. Still got a stack in Seattle (c20 gren/cannon). Assembling next army near baylon, got 8 galleons available for transport.

Bit of a quandary. I want to pick on Sury next (lots of land and cities but hasn't discovered gunpowder in 1820ad!). However he's second in population and thus my UN opponent. If I take his cities before SecGen elections then I might face another opponent, probably Jules or Bill but it could be Darius which would get very confusing.


Rumours of this thread's demise have been somewhat exaggerated.
 
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