Request for a Civ4: BtS "Intermediate" Succession Game

[pawelo]

Well, I can't vote for my game, but I wouldn't want to - my concentration on military pushed my support costs too high for my fragile economy. pawelo and asaegyn didn't trade with the Chinese, and are worse off technologically - though they have discovered more civs, and that's good. So, between Putchuco and Erathelix - both are very good, and equal in many ways. So out of pure preference I choose Erathelix.

I like his Mfg, and Putchuco's Mfg is a little low due to a high unhappiness (cities too large at the moment?). Erathelix also has the Moai Statues, (Putchuco probably isn't far behind) and that's great. Erathelix also has Code of Laws, so we can begin on Courthouses immediately.

Basically for the same reasons as Jamesds, I would lke to go on with Erathelix game. I think CoL/Currency combo is better than Cal/Mono as for now. Also, your war gold is pretty impressive, allowing us to run 100% research for some nice amount of turns.

Should we go with Erathelix's game, I think we need a religion more than Cal, and I would go for Philo asap. Also, an Academy in Babylon does wonders. For the next 30 turns ( we go for 30 ? ), Courth spam, scouting, religion.

 

[pawelo]

Two hours to go guys.
As for now, we have :

Erathelix - 3 votes
Putchuco - 1 vote

Didn't vote yet :
frob, Putchuco, Pigswill

Should the results remain this way @4PM GMT, Erathelix's save is chosen for 30 turns.
( Yeah, I auto-proclamed myself temporary leader )

As Jamesds said, everyone is free to play an alternate one ( like Putchuco did ) and share his game/report with everyone for debate.

 

[Putchuco]

Basically for the same reasons as Jamesds, I would lke to go on with Erathelix game. I think CoL/Currency combo is better than Cal/Mono as for now. Also, your war gold is pretty impressive, allowing us to run 100% research for some nice amount of turns.

Should we go with Erathelix's game, I think we need a religion more than Cal, and I would go for Philo asap. Also, an Academy in Babylon does wonders. For the next 30 turns ( we go for 30 ? ), Courth spam, scouting, religion.

I will agree with your assessment. Little time these days for me to look at the details of each of the great games, but I surely liked the way Erathelix played his turn. Very powerful entry into this SG !
I do like the 4 Garedns I already built, and more on the way, but I'm lacking in other areas.

So, to make the decision easy, and so we can move forward: Erathelix!

I would also like to agree a 100% with Jamesds on the discussions we had concerning the path. I guess we pretty much all wanted to go to War and that's the way we played it out. Agreed, this doesn't mean that anyone 'has to' go to war, it opens interesting alternatives.

I actually even tried out frob's save from the 110turns; and I got steamrolled, TWICE!
First, I moved that solo Settler in the SW ONE step too far away from the Axe, and he got IMMEDIATELY killed by a Barb.
And then I had a random event: 'Barbarian invasion'.
As my heart was starting to race with anticipation of what might be coming, I strengthened my borders started moving units into position (of which there weren't many...). When.... FIVE axemen literally teleported right into the middle of the Island!
Suffice to say I had little chance to advance that game, possibly could've survived, but that event was a killer.

 

[Erathelix]

Thanks for all your kind words

 

[pawelo]

Go with Erathelix game then.

You'll find the right post via jamesds fourth round report ( sorry, can't do links )

We go for the next 30 turns ( till turn 170 ).

Feel free to play another game too if you wish - it can be great to compare this way to an alternate try

To keep the pace, please play and post before the end of this week-end.

 

[pawelo]

Having some time this morning here is what I managed for this turnset (1st part):

Spoiler :

Thanks to a nice invasion, we have a great starting point. Well done, Erathelix!
For this report, I decided to go a little bit more telegraphic style – I found the former one too epical
Let’s strategize a bit :
- Get Taoism
- Get CS for Bureaucracy
- Found 2-3 cities – top priority is the 1N from Nanking spot – rice, sugar, gems!
- Scout
- Economy buildup

My first changes are :
- Research @ 100% ( thank you Erathelix for this great amount of gold )
- Whip : Garden@Dur, Courthouse@Beijing
- Force 2 scientists @ Babylon ( we need Academy! )

141:
Deer City has been found :



Garden@Dur -> Library
Whip Courthouse@Borsippa.

142:
Calendar checks in, and I decide to start Philosophy asap. Whipped courthouse in Borsippa overflows into an axe.
Bow@Shanghai -> Monument

143:
We meet Toku, the Confucianist

144:
Some Buddhist buddy manages a major achievement :



AP – pretty fast ain’t it ? Anyway, on our side of the world we go around Nanking to scout some more.

145:
Axe@Borsippa -> Garden
Courthouse@Akkad -> Mausoleum of Massolos
I decide to give it a try. In fact, we are among the first to get Calendar, so why not ? If it goes through, I think about running some nice GA buddies and getting Taj pretty soon after.

146:
Research drops down… Well it couldn’t last forever.
Courthouse@Babylon -> Market
Courthouse@Nippur -> Lighthouse
Garden@Sippar -> Courthouse
Whip Lighthouse in Beijing for more capacity
I push Akkad into full production mode

147:
Lighthouse@Beijing -> Settler
Monument@Shanghai -> Worker
Whip monument in Guangzhou

148:
Monument@Guangzhou -> Granary
Chop @Opis

149:
Monument@Opis -> Lighthouse
Chop @ Sippar

150:
Major turn here, after some pretty less important ones. Philo checks in, and :



We start research on Monotheism, to get OR. We need to spread the only and true holy word to all our cities ( and other ones too ). Our starting missionary goes for Babylon.
Also, the scout popped some gold on OUR next island.
Lighthouse@Nippur -> Axe
Courthouse@Sippar -> Barracks ( I plan to put a major military centre there )

151:
Bede shows us our place in the cultured world ( 3rd … ). We meet the second asap – Suryavanaran II (or something), who turns out to be Hindu founder and major wonder thief ( Stonehenge, Pyramids, Statue of Zeus, Temple of Artemis and his shirine ). Well, at least Qin is the last and Toku is behind us ( 5th ). I wonder who is the first – it must be this second nice unknown city with plenty of wonders inside.
Tao spreads in Akkad.
It’s also a start of my last campaign against China. First :



Succeeded, so there was no need to wait longer :



152:
Monotheism discovered. I went for Civil Service.
Anarchy to get Organized Religion. Tao spreads in Babylon, thanks to the free missionnary.
Bombard Nanking’s defenses to 0, then a sword takes the chinese sword @65% chances. We even get a nice ( chinese ) Great General for this achievement in Borsippa.
China is terminated by an axe @ 93% chances :



And without a surprise, after some firecracking activities in Nanking ( I want the 1N spot! ) we learn that :



153:
After a short warring break, nothing happened. Well, only the fact that Surya adopted US ( thank you pyramids )

154:
Hanging Gardens BIDL. Our scout tries to get a little overview of Toku’s territory.
Barracks@Sippar -> Library
Chop@Akkad while cottaging Opis.

155:
Garden@Borsippa -> Tao Missionary

End of part one ( too many pics )

 

[pawelo]

Turnset 5 part two :

Spoiler :

Lets go for the latter 15 turns :

156:
Axe@Nippur -> Angkor Wat ( I haven’t seen anything useful to build there, so why not ? )
Settler@Beijing -> Monument
Shawagadagon Paya built by Surya! Wouldn’t he have Zeus, I think we would have our future target.
Some great persons appear there and there. Our Great General becomes an illustrious Instructor in Sippar.
Chop@Sippar

157:
Library@Dur -> Courthouse
Worker@Shanghai -> Courthouse

158:
We meet Washington ( Jew ). As we want to have some friends, we trade Code of Laws to him for Aesthetics and a pig for a corn. And here we are - +5.
Tao Miss@Borsippa -> Tao Miss
We learn that we are well populated :



But we want more :



159:
Surya gets nasty ( -6… whoops ) and wants Currency. We say a nice no thank you nice you have dropped by.
And finally we get him, our brand new Great Scientist, who performs his great work :



Library@Sippar -> Sword ( remember, Surya is getting nasty )
Chop@Babylon

160:
Chop@Shanghai
Tao spreads in Dur

161:
Market@Babylon -> Tao Temple
Courthouse@Shanghai -> Granary
Lighthouse@Opis -> Granary
Whip monument@Beijing ( aka whipping paradise )

162:
We get Civil Service and go for Metal Casting, revoliting instantly to Bureaucracy.
Tao Miss@Borsippa -> Settler ( to colonize OUR island )
Sword@Sippar -> Swprd
Monument@Beijing -> Granary

163:
Chop@Nippur
Chop@Akkad
Our spy lands in Japan to see what scout’s eyes couldn’t see

164:
Courthouse@Dur -> Tao Miss
Chop@Beijing
Work 2 scientists in Dur to limit growth

165:
Tao spreads in Mari by itself
Chop@Mari

166:
Metal Casting in, let’s get Literature ( essentially for the both Epics ).
Tao Temple@Babylon -> Forge
Monument@Mari -> Worker
Tao spreads to Sippar ( missionary ) and to some obscure city of Sarmatian ( far away in the fog )
Washington has found a city on OUR island!

167:
Literature in, I follow on Machinery for maces and, further, Guilds. I start working two merchants in Babylon.
Sword@Sippar -> Lighthouse
Our spy encounters some local japanese people :



168:
GOTCHA!



Now we will run some Golden Ages economy! I start a forge in Akkad.
Settler@Borsippa -> Work Boat ( fishes next to the new settlement )
Granary@Beijing -> Library
Granary@Guangzhou -> Courthouse

169:
Lighthouse@Sippar -> Forge

170:
Work Boat@Borsippa -> Tao Temple
Got our city on OUR island :



So, let’s get some overview of our territory.



Babylon is in excellent condition, working two merchants actually and on the hapiness cap. Akkad & Dur do well also, and Nippur has Angkor Wat halfway through ( getting some chopping help ).



Borsippa works on full potential serving especially the religious community, and we have a new outpost to the north. Well, there is this little blue stuff too, but well…



Sippar does great, but is a little bit limited due to the tundra tiles. Opis is well and growing. We have also a nice spot for a last city on our continent.



China recovers well from the war effort. Beijing will pop soon and get those fishes inside. Mari will get the gems in two turns too and we have a worker ready to get them online.



Meet our friend Toku, and the eastern part of his empire.
A little question - maybe I'm too dumb - do you see Khmer culture borders ? Where the hell is this city???



Though our religion is young, it has already some followers. Let’s keep it that way!



And to summerize, a global overview of the situation. Not that bad I think.
Up to you guys. I can’t wait to see how your games went!

 

[Jamesds]

Thanks for managing things in my absence, pawelo , that was great. So, Erathelix game it is. Unfortunately I can't play yet, and tomorrow neither - I'll have it in Monday morning, so I will expect everyone else to have theirs in around that time too. Well done for getting yours in now, pawelo.

"Last edited by pawelo : 08-09-2007 at 14:41. Reason: Forgot the save ( as usual "

 

[asaegyn]

hi guys, here are my turns.

Spoiler :

nothing particularly eventful, just building buildings and empire. built 1 new city north of nanking. been waiting for china to settle a new city before i wipe them out.

gifted alphabet to toku hoping he'd open borders, but he's just stuck at cautious, even at +5.

traded code of laws to washington for aesthetics and 20 gold, not sure if the best deal. earned a -4 from sury for trading with his worst enemy, and -2 from toku.

we founded taoism, i haven't yet switched to it, though perhaps i should have to get the +25% bonus in our three taoist cities (tho it would require 2 turns of anarchy.)

on the other hand, i did get civil service and switched to bureaucracy. chain farms should help nippur out as well, as it is stuck at size four.

neglected units and settlers, but that would be a priority in the next turnset.

going for divine right, try to get versaille, should help a lot in this multi continent map. building masouleum, would be nice to get it, 9 turns left, but very iffy.

explored a bunch, a very unspectacular set.

pix

Spoiler :

and the save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/10009/asaegyn_-_turn_170_-_1100AD.CivBeyondSwordSave

cheers,
asaegyn

 

[pigswill]

Played a few turns up to 1100ad.

Spoiler :

Thoughts for the set. Finish off China, find new cities to trade with to maximise Glight, bit of research.

Whipped monuments in China to get some border pops going then courthouses. Declared on China asap, eliminated in 760ad, picked up another city and a GG that I used for a Medic3 warlord to enable HE. Sent army exploring and fogbusting China coz I don't like barbs.

Techwise I started with calendar for MoM and couple of happy resources, then CS for buro , philosophy (got Taoism in Akkad), MC, aesthetics, lit, currently trying for music (hoping for free GA). Jules traded feudalism for CS.

I built a city between Akkad and Sippur ignoring the deer in favour of a production site. Also built a couple of cities in China, got a settler heading for clam/gem/rice site. Shanghai is building FP to reduce expenses. There's room for three more cities and a fishing village still to be built.

Haven't built any wonders, three turns from MoM and hoping I get it.

Running a few specialists but only 1 GS so far, heading towards Babylon, maybe gold-age but probably academy.

Met Sury, GW and Jules, haven't come across any roman cities yet. Got open borders (except Tok who's being snotty as usual). GW don't like us much but we're ok with the others.

Founded Taoism, also Judaism, Confu and Hindu have spread to us. Nice to have multiple religions available if going for Free Religion.

I think that we would be best served by colonising the rest of China and getting a solid economy established. Techwise it would be nice to get some caravels out but liberalism retains its free tech appeal. Maybe build some longbows to release our army for offensive operations as required. Identified a few spots for national wonders. All in all pottering quietly along:

 

[Putchuco]

Just got back home from a weekend in Tampa, not sure if I can get my game in tonight. If needed, just continue without my game.

 

[Erathelix]

Played another 30 turns. This time not so eventfull as before.

Spoiler :

My plan was to establish solid economy and let our proud nation recover from all whipping and killing .
Plan went smooth thanks to gold stolen from China during war. I was able to keep science slider @ 70.
I have finished what was left of China in 780AD.

On research side I have focused first to get calendar, then civil service to enable bureaucracy. Next I went to get our first own religion Taoism. which I got in 980AD. I begun spreading taoism and researched monotheism to enable organized religion.

In the mean time I started building MoM in our capital. Civics really helped on this, and we will hopefully get MoM in 2 turns.

I have lost our spy on tokus land which really upset him. I was unable to open borders with him. We may expect trouble from toku soon, and I think he should be our next target.

 

[Jamesds]

Each round is taking longer and longer, becoming more complex each time – we’ll need to slow down the turnsets to take in more of the detail!

Spoiler Turn Report from Turn 141 - 170 :

I should probably start taking notes through these games instead of relying on my memory 2 hours later…it’s getting hard to remember stuff I did…

To start I sent two galleys exploring, one for the Khmer/American bit (which I happen to know exists NE of our land… ) and one around the Japanese Island.

I also sent a Settler onto the former (I didn’t settle on DeerCity like Erathelix was planning), with a whipped axe from ClamFish, and settled on the narrow island to our East. It was slightly disappointing to get only a map from the hut several turns later. Also – that city has Iron , and production is good.

Here’s where I think we should settle the second city on that island:

Spoiler :

When I could, I declared war on the Chinese and got the last city easily. I razed it, since it is too close to another city and I like my cities spaced out. Also, I thought I could get loads of Sugar, 1 rice and 1 gems by placing it 1 square north of its current position. I built that city in turn 168 I think.

Here’s the whole island, showing the bounty of sugar in the city I have just settled:

Spoiler :

I did gift Alphabet to the Japanese, hoping to get Open Borders, but sadly they still weren’t so keen. The Khmer and Americans were happier to have Open Borders, and I am trading with them for 4 resources (2 happy and 2 healthy).

I went for Compass to build Harbours and make use of our thriving coastal city’s trade routes. Also Metal Working to build Forges, of which several have been built. I built as many courthouses as possible, and espionage is better than other civ’s. I also went for Civil Service to change to Bureaucracy (+50% +50% in capital).

With my Spy, I had fun exploring the territory of the Khmer – they are well developed, and well defended. America seems to be in a similar state.

The Khmer’s island, if you want to see:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

My workers continued developing the land, specialising in cottages. With the resources we have, the cities are thriving!

Oh, finally, of little importance, we suffered an absolutely terrible research setback, this is going to affect the whole game:

Spoiler :

That’s it I think…will be interesting to see your games.

I was wondering, is anyone interested in helping me with the stats? They are becoming more detailed and complex, so some help would be great. Just one person, then we can split the work. You’ll need Excel XP/2003/2007.

I’m going to be adding resources to the stats too – what do you think? Anyone have a great idea for how they should be included? I was thinking of dividing them into Strategic, Luxury, and Health Bonus and maybe showing graphics of each.

 

[Jamesds]

Well, here's my couple hours work, still waiting for Putchuco (will give you the rest of today...unless you think that's not possible) and frob is probably not playing this turn.

For the stats, it is helpful to know, in your accounts, which techs you traded so I can include that. I've got that info from some of your writeups, but Erathelix: did you trade for Metal Casting? Sometimes the dates a which you discover techs are strange, like discovering two techs in a turn, or an expensive one in a couple of turns - although I know you can change techs halfway through, and return to them where you left off, so it can be confusing!

Round 5 Stats

EDIT: The resources aren't aligned properly at the moment, I need to wait until the other games are in, then I'll tidy that up.

 

[Erathelix]

I didn't trade for any techs this time, just regular research. My neighbors don't like me

 

[Putchuco]

Couldn't get the game in yesterday, selling two cars and a house, etc. pp. takes some wind out of my sails...

Hoping to get my move in tonight!

You don't have to wait for me, but thanks for doing it...

 

[Putchuco]

Rushed to get my turn done, hope it didn't delay the game for everybody...

Here we go, the years 600 through 1100 AD according to Putchuco...

Spoiler :

Turn 140 - Started with some changes, hoping for even faster growth
-- Babylon: Bowmen (more happiness)
-- Pig City: Spear (same)
-- FloodPlains: Whip Garden
-- Copper SE: Lighthouse
-- Sheep: Whip Garden, then go for Courthouse
-- Beijing: Whip Courthouse

Sorry, if the renaming of cities is confusing to someone, keeping the names was more confusing to me...

You might also have noticed that I'm an obsessive compulsive city border painter...

Spoiler :

T142 - Guangshou: Whip Monument

T143 - Meet Toku, 'El Loco'... he never wants to trade with me...

Spoiler :

-- Finish Calendar, will start MoM hopefully soon
-- go for Metal Casting next ?

T144 - AP built; wow, fast!

T147 - Meet Sury, another nutcase... He won't trade Aesthetics yet, bummer.

Spoiler :

-- pop the hut and get experience for the Scout, WOOT!

T148 - finished MC -> going for CS next
-- Peace with China cancelled
...
-- what?

-- OK, I offered Qin a deal for old time's sake...

Spoiler :

...

-- What?!

-- OK, OK, I also went after his last city right afterwards...

-- the lone Spear running next to Guangshou 'gives' enough practice to get a Great General... sweet

T150 - Open Borders with Sury (seems he likes Qin, bummer)

T151 - Meet Washington, and get a nice ranking right with it, 2nd in Power, nice (Erathelix DID listen to his Military Adviser... )

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Quick check on the current relations, 'where's the love'?

Spoiler :

-- Conquer last Chinese city, see the resources and decide against that location (stupid AI placements... )

Spoiler :

T152 - moved GG to ClamFish (nice Hammers, and close to future war location, what do you guys think?)
-- Open Borders with Washington
-- Made a trade with Georgie: MC for Aesthetics+Mono
-- another: Pig for Corn

T153 - The Hanging Gardens get built somewhere else...
(Do you guys also have this feeling of betrayal whenever someone else builds a wonder? Don't they ALL belong to us? )

T156 - CS done, Literature next? Not sure...
-- switch to Bureaucracy AND Organized Religion, one anarchy turn only, I like that

Spoiler :

T157 - Start MoM in Babylon, after finishing Market there, am I too late?

T159 - Literature done, going for Music now, I want that GA

Spoiler :

continued...

 

[Putchuco]

...continued

Spoiler :

T160 - Does Georg think I'm mental? 'NO! Doh!'

Spoiler :

That's more like it, maybe this will heal some hurt feelings...

Spoiler :

Edit: Somewhere around this time I founded Sugar City (not 'Silk City' for which I mistake it all the time... lol)


T162 - Music! Yeah!

...

-- No GA? Wha?

Darn it! I hate when that happens, someone beat me to it? What did I miss?

-- Meet Willem

Spoiler :

-- Not the fanciest random event in the world...

Spoiler :

T166 - Meet Julius, uh, oh, Mr. 'I-have-Praetorians'...

T167 - Finished Machinery
(After the Music-GA disappointment and looking at how much all these warmongers disliked me because of ONE little trade with Georgie...
... I decided better to pepper up my defenses and prepare for further misunderstandings with some Maces in my hands...)

-- Founded Deer

T168 - Georgie wants me to join him in the War with Julius, hummm

Spoiler :

I actually thought this for a while and then decided that I have but one 'friend' here, better keep him happy. Let's go fro war with this quite distant Romans!

T170 - WASHINGTON STOPS HIS WAR WITH JULIUS!

Spoiler :

This BACKSTABBING [bleep] of a [bleep]!!!

And to make things worse, Julius won't make peace with ME!

Isn't that just GREAT?!


Here some final stats of my attempt.
I did not go after a religion, want to leave that up for our discussion; should we align with someone? Maybe cross Washington and align with ALL his foes...

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

We only got the Great Lighthouse so far (after 'lending' it from Qin...),
and I love my wonders, building two right now.
MoM is due in 4 turns, GL in 12 turns.
After that I was planning to switch away from Slavery and go after Great People to put the MoM to use.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[pawelo]

Do we have to speak in

Spoiler :

spoilers

or do we start a debate right ahead ?

Anyway, great games everyone! Seems to me that this time we had went through a similar path.

 

[Jamesds]

Thanks Putchuco, I'll be uploading the final version of the Stats soon. Now, the discussion is open!

It was interesting for me to see this time (and you will have to load the games to see this, the stats cannot properly show this) where we settled (that is, if we settled) our new cities. Seems some missed the iron placement on the narrow island to the right. Pawelo settled in what I designated as "NE-Island-Fish" placement.

So, let's have no votes yet, votes will be Friday evening. Just discuss the differences in our games.