Request partners; MARS mod

How easy should it be to live on mars?

  • Easy (A bit like living in Russia)

    Votes: 4 6.3%
  • Fairly difficult (like living at the north pole)

    Votes: 29 46.0%
  • Very difficult (Almost like trying to live on the moon)

    Votes: 30 47.6%

  • Total voters
    63
I think I'll be able to commit to making a automated sentry gun. I might eventually be able to do citys or something similar. I figure I should start small so I contribute at least one thing.
Any ideas for what it should shoot/looks like?

I was thinking of some gun on a simple tripod.

Edit: Here is my take on a basic tripod trying to look heavy duty and futuristic (not yet textured and not yet completed):
tripodv1.png
 
Had a thought regarding a new resource ... the icon could be a flag and it would mark the location of early landing sites ... could give bonus in money - which would translate to income from tourism.

I imagine that little tourist shrines would be set up on the moon if we ever colonize Luna ... "Come and see Armstrong's Footprint" ... "$1,000,000 if you find the Apollo golf ball" ... "Rollup for a ride in the Luna Rover"

Just a thought :goodjob:
 
Smoking mirror said:
Well air presire on earth at sea level is 1, in space it is zero. At arival on Mars it's 0.1, so 10 percent of earth but still much more than space.

The body does need to be air tight, partly rigid, and elasticated so that it does not inflate. The other option is to have it already inflated, like space suit designs.

After the air pressure starts to rise, a tight-fitting elastic covering should be fine. I don't think pressure over .1 atm would have much effect on exposed skin, unless it's still really cold.
 
vbraun said:
I think I'll be able to commit to making a automated sentry gun. I might eventually be able to do citys or something similar. I figure I should start small so I contribute at least one thing.
Any ideas for what it should shoot/looks like?

I was thinking of some gun on a simple tripod.

Edit: Here is my take on a basic tripod trying to look heavy duty and futuristic (not yet textured and not yet completed):
tripodv1.png

Looks good, I'd try one bar per leg as at civ scale having too much busy detail (like lots of struts) can cause trouble.
Remember not too much complicated mechanical parts, Perhaps a large bore auto cannon rather than a small bore machine gun. Or maybe a rocket/missile launcher. What ever you use would have to survive being outside on the surface of mars for perhaps weeks on end with little maintenance. -100 degrees centigrade, and with the occasional 600 MPH dust and sandstoms that would act like sand blasting, slowly stripping away first the paint, then the machine itself...

For Mars Space suits, in KSRs Mars they use a thick elasticated layer with a close weave chicken wire type heating element. I think there are design problems with this, not least the fact that you would have to limit how much heat energy is being vented off in to the thin martian atmosphere.

Personaly I think an inner layer of padding for comfort(F), with a water based heating system over the top (E). Above this would be a thick insulating layer (D). Above this would be the elasticated skin (C) to withstand the low atmospheric presure. Importantly the next layer would protect against radiation, and would also serve as an extra layer of insulation (B).
As an optional layer you colud have thin, flexible armour (A). Chainmail would actualy be good, to stop rips or a sectioned carapace like that used by Roman legions.
 

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As materials technology improves you could combine several of these layers. A third or fourth generation Martian walker suit would have only three layers;

The outer layer (1) would be a strong but flexible reactive armour, it would be soft and easily articulated under normal conditions but would become rigid and super strong when subjected to high local presure, such as a bullet or shrapnel. The middle layer (2) would be the insulation layer, it would also be elasticated and air tight. Inside that (3) would be a very efficient padded heating layer, with hundreds of tiny tubes pumping a special heated chemical compound around the suit. The tubes would have to be quite strong so that they wouldn't burst under external pressure from enemy attacks.

Eventualy the suit would be reduced to one layer that could perform all the above functions.

Overall the problem with the heating system would be temperature regulation. To remain warm in a super cold environment but not to overheat. Perhaps an option would be raditator fins mounted on the suit.
 

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I would think that a 'free standing' defense cannon would be less viable given the harsh conditions (and to a different degree, lower gravity), so I would tend to think that a more static armored "turret" anchored in a concrete base would be better; one idea of 'preventive maintenance' could be a mechanism concealed in the base that periodically sprays a gel-like buffer on the outside of the turret, and a lubricant in the moving bits.
A tripod gun might be better-suited for later stages of terraforming if the winds are less harsh and it were easier to maintain; it could be semi-mobile, perhaps (could re-base, but otherwise immobile).
 
Cheers Aaglo, your praise means a lot. :)

GRM7584; The benifit of a sentry gun is that it could be carried around by non combatants, such as settlers or workers. It'd be a man portable 24 hour guard, so a design that could be folded up and carried with you would be good.
One idea would be to have a pop up gun, seated on a small crawler with a sensor pod sticking up above. When an enemy was detected the gun would pop up for deffence.

fe3333au; I think that the original landing sites would make better wonders than resources, they could give a collosus type trade advantage and then a tourism bonus later. They would be preplaced at the start of the second scenario..

Cabbit; Another set of books is the night's dawn trilogy by Peter F Hamilton. It takes place several centuries into the future when lessons have been learned form space colonisation.
The first planets to be colonised are done in a peicemeal fasion, and end up falling in to the old nation state patern. Later planets are single culture colonies, based on an ethnic and social stereotype.

In a way, the analogy between Virgin Mars and the USA is a false one. The USA was already fully ready for habitation, and inhabited. It took a similar amount of time and money to transfer goods or people from europe to America, but return goods were much more profitable. Initial colonies had lower start up costs and established colonies didn't need as much support. Also Mars is much bigger than America, Valles Marinaris (the great northern canyon system) is as large as the USA all on it's own.

Actualy there is a good analogy in America, it's Tenochlitlan the Aztec capital. When the Aztecs fist settled there it was a swampy wasteland, surounded by jungle and desert. They used their ingenuity and labour to turn it in to one of the largest cities in the world (bigger than venice at the time). They also acheived political and ideological unification of much of Meso America.
Then the Spanish arrived.
It cost enormous amounts of money to send even a small expedition to America, but it was financed on the promise of even more money from the explotation of a rich land.

The first settlers will be like the Aztecs, setting up an initial settlement, and the infastructure to support settlement. Later arivals will be more like the spanish, with no regard for any previous political arrangements, or like the french or english, settling in other regions to establish thier own expansionist utopia.
Labour on MArs would be most likley to be provided by convicts or the poor of earth, lured by the promise of high pay and trapped by the massive return fees. the cost of a trip out would likley cost something like a years indentured labour, or be free, but the cost to travel back would be your own weight in precious cargo as well as the weight of asociated life support. In the end most would stay on mars sending money back to thier family, or having them shipped out. These people would be like the black, asian or native american slaves used to build America, and they would be the driving force in political change. As they made the transition from being earthlings, tied to the homeworld by thier need for support, to independant martian citizens, the ruling class would find it hard to keep them under control.
 
I guess what I was proposing was more of a completely seperate kind of defense, in addition to a 'portable' type; if the portable kind was used, an 'arquebusier'-like move animation would fit best, where there is an accompanying human to carry the thing from tile to tile, then set it down and let it work its magic. I should think it would be interesting for it to shoot small laser-guided rockets, or RPGs, or to get really creative (not that creative), have a later model with several independent lasers of different wavelengths so it can acquire multiple targets simultaneously, with an attack animation that fires a spread of several rounds. If I knew anything about unit-making, I suspect I would shudder at all that.
Personally, though, I would quite like to see some sort of anchored/static turret defense for cities. It seems logical given that it would be difficult to keep a constant watch on the surroundings of a base/settlement, or to have manned defenses; also considering that for most of the timeline a single puncture through to the interior of a mars-suit could cause a gasping vacuumy death.
 
ok, that's pretty interesting stuff you got there on the suit design issue. I put together a design today, and am heading to buy a new scanner cuz I don't want to have to wait to get my other one shipped here. I should be able to have the design up in a few hours. There is no chainmail in this design, but I think it looks pretty cool. We'll see what you think once I get it posted.
 
EDIT; Exelent news Kal-el I await your design eagerly. :)

Well, I may do a musketman type sentry gun. It wouldn't be too difficult, I'd use my settler model.
So I guess a Dalek type sentry drone would be a good one for Vbraun to make. :)

I've finished all the models and textures for most of the starting units, Still have to make some rovers and stuff but I'm going to focus on these for the moment as most of them can use similar animations. I should be able to get them done this weekend.

At the far right is the settler (no attack, mostly just like the settler in Civ III), next to him is the Mars walker suit, an upgrade of the basic space based suit design, he's got a gas powered rifle that can fire sedative darts or explosive tipped bullets. Next to him is the version previous to him, dressed in a civilian space suit with extra armour plates and armed with a gas powered riot gun. It fires rubber bullets for croud control (though a good shot will shatter an enemies faceplate). At the far left is a civilian guard armed with a tazer stick. At the front are the Robot rover explorers, the right hand one is the upgrade.
group.gif


I need some names for them, so any suggestions?
 
Some thoughts (hopefully not too lame) --

Settler = Colonist

"Mars walker suit, an upgrade of the basic space based suit design, he's got a gas powered rifle that can fire sedative darts or explosive tipped bullets." = Paramilitary Infantry

"Next to him is the version previous to him, dressed in a civilian space suit with extra armour plates and armed with a gas powered riot gun. It fires rubber bullets for croud control (though a good shot will shatter an enemies faceplate)" = Riot Police

"At the far left is a civilian guard armed with a tazer stick" = Guard

"At the front are the Robot rover explorers, the right hand one is the upgrade." = Rover; Ranger

-- BTW, looking good! :goodjob:

-Oz
 
Ozymandias' recommendations are good for generic names; it could depend on what exactly you wanted to do thematically for the mod. Would martian colonists have their own monikers for different classes of suit, rover, etc.? Or even the designers of the various things themselves, if they were intended explicitly for Mars. What I'm getting at is it might follow suit to give them Roman, Roman Mythological, or Roman Military-styled names (not necessarily because Mars is a Roman war god, but because in Roman myth Romulus and Remus are his sons, and Mars is thought to have been the 'most-worshipped' god in the Roman pantheon).
To that effect, I might say:
Founder - Gradivii (a forced plural form of Gradivus, "he who precedes", a surname given to Mars)
Rover Mk. I - Speculator Rover (a term for a scout/spy)
Rover Mk. II - Araeni Rover (a sort of later Roman spy)
Prod Guard - Scintilla Auxilia ("scintilla" being latin for "spark")
Riot Guard - Comprimere Auxilia (comprimere - Quash :) )
Combat Suit - Hastae Martiae (ceremonial lances kept in Rome)

Probably wouldn't fit anybody's visions of a Mars scenario, but oh well, eh? You can at least have an alternate set of generic names in the first column! Also keep in mind I know little to nothing about Roman (Edit: and/or Latin) stuff, so I might not be the best person to listen to.
 
Ok, here is my first design. I think it turned out pretty good. He would have a bubble helmet like the earlier suits, I just didn't draw it on there, cuz I wanted to show the breath mask and goggles. I figure since the bubble is an easy target it would be better to have the breathing tubes independant. What do you think?

MarsArmorsm.gif


I am now going to work on something for the Earth armies, and then probably a Reiver.
 
Smoking mirror said:
What ever you use would have to survive being outside on the surface of mars for perhaps weeks on end with little maintenance. -100 degrees centigrade, and with the occasional 600 MPH dust and sandstoms that would act like sand blasting, slowly stripping away first the paint, then the machine itself...

That gives me an idea. Make barbs sandstorms to represent the effect you just described fairly powerful with equal attack and defense and maybe a movement of 2.

Im going to work on the sentry gun tonight and post what I get done if anything at all.
 
Heres my quick attempt at a basic model of it. The smaller tube is like a camera (for possible manual use). The entire box like structure will rotate.
This is about at civ level. Still not yet textured.
tripodv2.png
 
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