requested to go to war, then denounced for doing so

[kpi]

so the ai (japan) requests that I go to war against a civ (Russia)

I agree in 10 turns, japan goes to me the time has come to smite the Russians

I hit declare war, the next turn japan denounces me for being a warmonger even though we are fighting a common foe

I don't get it. is the game missing some code to account for this type of axis of evil situation?

 

[Derpy Hooves]

Japan has a pretty high warmonger hate, even though I believe the penalty is less then normal when you're declaring on the same guy.

Alexander:2
Askia:4
Augustus:4
Barbarian:0
Bismark:6
Catherine:5
Darius:5
Elizabeth:7
Gandi:7
Al Rashid:5
Hiawatha:6
Montezuma:1
Napoleon:3
Nobunaga:6
Ramesses:6
Ramkhamhaeng:8
Suleiman:4
Washington:7
Wu Zeitan:5

I find it impossible to believe this would just happen out of the blue though, perhaps you did a large amount of warring before and this is what just barely pushed him over the edge?

Sadly enough, this seems like the game working as intended, but hey, at least it wasn't Elizabeth.

 

[Draco84]

Were you friends with Russia at the time? maybe it wasn't for being a warmonger and more for backstabbing your friend?

I hate there is no way to see if you are friends with someone when prompted by the AI to declare war.

 

[Polisurgist]

japan denounces me for being a warmonger

There is no such thing as being denounced for a specific, singular action. You get denounced when your diplomatic relations get below a certain level and when the AI in question feels bold enough to do so (usually based on your military threat level).

 

[njmfff]

I find it impossible to believe this would just happen out of the blue though, perhaps you did a large amount of warring before and this is what just barely pushed him over the edge?

hmm, did he pay attention to spies "Oda is plotting against you" thing? If that happen, it could be just Oda's plot.

I am serious, I've seen AI do that sometimes, much like with that "denounce them for me" thing. Ask you to declare war, you declare it, they denounce you instead, and they get diplo boost with other civs since: they denounced "bad guy" and you end up being warmonger.

 

[EK834]

There is no such thing as being denounced for a specific, singular action. You get denounced when your diplomatic relations get below a certain level and when the AI in question feels bold enough to do so (usually based on your military threat level).

Yeah but this seems to be a bug. It happened to me with Maria Theresa, who can give you a minor warmonger modifier just for DoWing someone and as our relationship wasn't good that was enough to tip her over the edge. She came to me to declare war on Suleiman. I accepted. On her next turn she came to denounce me and I noticed she didn't have yet the "we are fighting a common foe" green modifier. It's as if the calculation that lead to the denouncement took into account my actions on my last turn, triggering the denouncement and starting the diplo screen to tell me, but it's only after that the game adjusted her end of the modifiers with Suleiman (whose turn was calculated after her) and me, including the fact she had declared war and this gave me a green modifier. After the denouncement, at the beginning of my turn, she had the green modifier.

This puzzled me at the time but I didn't keep a save.

 

[rodrigoq]

I'm always chain denounced in my games. I've given up on ever seeing and end to it once it starts. I even fully ressurected India, my Friend, after 1500 yrs of being dead, and Ghandi went from loving me, to hostile after I raised his dead ass from the grave, and liberated 4 of his cities. Maybe killing off the Inca to ragain his lands was a tad too brutal for him..

 

[Walter R]

Yeah I just got exactly the same, and from Oda too...in fact a total backstab. But let's just assess my position:

1. I'm easily the top dog with the most muscle
2. And (coughs), I will be needing Kyoto for my collection
3. Oda is in Renaissance era, I'm in Atomic (I have completed Manhattan and have access to Uranium)
4. ...and yes, I have been a bit of a naughty boy on the world stage.

The only thing stopping me waltzing into Kyoto right now is that my happiness is low, but in a few turns I'll be showing my annoyance at his weasily ways! So I'm actually pleased to receive his message.

edit: Oh I forgot to mention, in the meantime I've paid Monty to DOW Oda: handy arrangement because Monty's is the last capital I'll need after Kyoto.

 

[civ54lyfe]

Darius loves to do this. i will never do a joint DoW with him again. obviously Siam is not one to do this with either. Austria would be another.

 

[Socratatus]

Could be a very careful trick to make you look bad while Oda looks ok. I`d expect anything from a Human, but I`d be somewhat surprised if the AI is programmed to be that deceptive. Be cool if it is though.

 

[Johnpecan]

Oda is in Renaissance era, I'm in Atomic (I have completed Manhattan and have access to Uranium)

*spits out coffee* I think you need to up the difficulty level

 

[sendos]

There is no such thing as being denounced for a specific, singular action. You get denounced when your diplomatic relations get below a certain level and when the AI in question feels bold enough to do so (usually based on your military threat level).

I don't think that's necessarily true. You can still get denounced for specific actions. In my current Aztec game, late in game, I conquered the Persians and I annexed one City state that was allied with them. The Portuguese were good friends with me (no red diplo penalties mentioned) until they denounced me 1 turn after I conquered the Persians and the city state. However, the boldness factor might be very much true.

 

[EK834]

I don't think that's necessarily true.

It's factually true, though you're both right.

Some single actions can be enough to greatly alter the numbers and reach a level where it will trigger a denouncement if they're bold enough (and don't forget the AI can hide some negative modifiers, though).

Polisurgist's explanation remains true, though. If you had even more positive modifiers with that AI, this same action wouldn't in itself have triggered the denouncement.

It's all about the numbers. He meant there is no diplomatic action that's programmed this way : "if human does X, denounce him" automatically. Some actions just have such a high negative number they're very likely to lead to a denouncement under most conditions.

 

[GhostSalsa]

so the ai (japan) requests that I go to war against a civ (Russia)

I agree in 10 turns, japan goes to me the time has come to smite the Russians

I hit declare war, the next turn japan denounces me for being a warmonger even though we are fighting a common foe

Yes, this happens a lot to me and it is one of the stupidest facets of game diplomacy.

The only thing I'll say in the defense of this one is it's been this way since Vanilla. Like how conquering 1-2 key CS's has been unfairly punished since Vanilla. Going to war by request is always punished. There is no "even better than common foe, went to war to have my back" modifier (and the common foe modifier is useless anyway). War requests are essentially entrapment. Ignore them.

I'll press 10 turns to prepare if I was about to go to war with the target civ anyway - because that means I've already decided this war should be diplomatically acceptable and not get me chain-denounced, might as well let my "friends" commit to mobilizing troops too so I'm not the only one sinking production etc. I'll declare before the 10 turns and take all the cities for myself.

 

[Magus Maximus]

I find that Dido does that all the time. First two times I fell for it...shame on me. Though she waited until I made piece with the target shortly before she denounced and DOWed me. Definitely seems like a deceitful human tactic to distract me with another war, make me displace my units, and then attack me.

I'm assuming the AI is not programed to do that specifically, but something else results in this apparent sneaky behavior. Both these incidents were before the last patch, before I even had BNW. So it wasn't caused by the recent warmonger changes.

Also, my war with Dido against Ethiopia was my first war in that game. So as far as I could tell, there was no other reasons for a denouncement/DOW.