Research

[AutomatedTeller]

We now have writing.

I set research to philo. I am not sure this is the consensus of the Council, but it seemed like it was closer than not, and if we *did* want to try philo, we had to go faster, where if we go CoL, we can lose a turn.

 

[donsig]

Yes, I thought we were agreed to try for philosophy.

 

[Paul#42]

What next after Literature?
It would be nice to have an agreement with team FREE but we can't rely on a quick research treaty.

I'd rather research Masonry now, GLH still takes some time and Mas gives us more quickly (only one 3rd beakers) Pyramides and Palace. And we can build curraghs longer...

edit: for easier reference the MA tech tree from zyxy's post:

 

[peter grimes]

I agree with that logic.

Especially the bit about the curraghs.

 

[donsig]

We already have The Admiralty on a pre-build course and everyone will see the value of the lighthouse so it's a race I doubt we can start running later. I suggest we let The Admiralty continue to stockpile shields and build curraghs in Pink Dot.

As for research, I think we should look at it from the SGL angle as well. I know very little about SGLs but my understanding is that any civ that is the first to research a tech has a change to get an SGL. If so, then for every unknown tech one of us will be first. What is the likelyhood that other teams are (or have) researched masonry?

Also, I think it is very important that we do not duplicate FREE's research efforts. We really need some communication from them.

As for pre-builds, we're going to settle Pink Dot and make one more settler. If we made one settler beyond that we woudl have the FP available as a prebuild.

 

[General_W]

I’d say, block C.Burial (of course), then grab masonry (great pre-builds, and if we miss the Torch, the most common second choice I heard mentioned was the SoZ, and masonry is a perquisite for Math and the SoZ) – after Masonry, I’d go for MapMaking (of course).

All this could be subject to change if we get a super positive response back from Free, and they can help us with some of these techs.

As for an SGL – even as a Scientific Civ, we’ve only got a 5% chance (2% for others) to get the SGL if we’re the first to discover a monopoly tech. Sure, it’d be awesome, but I don’t think we want to plan much of our strategy around getting one.

 

[donsig]

No word yest from FREE.

Here's our science advisor screen from the current save. No moves made but lux upped to 10%, science at 90% and The Treasury scientist put back to work on a bg.



We will set research to ceremonial burial, found Pink Dot (which needs a name) and then switch over to masonry after the hut is popped.

Sound good to everyone? I will play the save later this evening. Eastern dinner comes first.

 

[General_W]

Sounds good to me.

... and please try to pop something good from that hut!

 

[Paul#42]

Absolutely all right.
Pop Masonry from the hut and get a SGL for it and we have no further discussion

(okay, we will have some discussion then...)

edit:
As I already posted in the Team FREE embassy thread:
Looking at the save I just thought we are already ahead of 4-turn-research on the cheap techs. Masonry we would get for 70% in 4 turns. We would more benefit from researching middle to higher cost techs once we got libraries - apart from the better chances to get an SGL...

Researching more techs of course provides also a good chance for SGLs - if we get some not yet known.
Apart from Masonry (which we need) should we leave out the other rivals' starting techs if possible?

 

[Niklas]

I thought the minimum research speed in C3C was 3 turns per tech, isn't that true?

 

[peter grimes]

nope. 4 turns.

 

[donsig]

We'll have masonry soon so we need a consensus on our next research project. There's no more word from FREE as of this post. Republic (with code of laws) and map making (for GLH) are priorities but there has been talk of researching one of the minor techs first. I'd like to suggest we research math next. We could get it in about 8 turns and it would give us access to the Statue of Zeus. hmm: can't recall if we need ivory for that). We might also be the first to research it.

 

[Niklas]

No need for Ivory, that was voted away. And Maths is an interesting choice, also guaranteed not to be clashing with whatever FREE chooses, until we hear from them next.

 

[General_W]

No need for Ivory, that was voted away. And Maths is an interesting choice, also guaranteed not to be clashing with whatever FREE chooses, until we hear from them next.

If we haven't heard back from FREE, Math seems like a good choice to me.

 

[Paul#42]

Yes, good choice.

 

[General_W]

Stop The Presses!!
(…or something like that&#8230

News just in from FREE says that they have Masonry, and are working on Math. So I think that means we should divert to Map Making next turn.
However, we need to draft a long-term tech plan. Not sure if that should be done in this thread or in the FREE embassy… but I'd suggest the embassy as the most natural place – since who does what and when will be a major and integral topic.

However, for now, we should settle what tech we're picking next turn in this thread. For what it's worth, I'd vote Map Making or possibly Code of Laws, only because it seems like there's a better chance we'll get it first (as there won't be as big of a rush to it)

Still, I guess I'd vote for MM.

EDIT: While I typed this, we got a second note from FREE – apparently they already have Math, and are about to start work on Code of Laws… that makes Map Making almost certainly our best choice… since it's too late to try to get Masonry and Math for work on currency. Maybe we can do that after Map Making?

 

[donsig]

We could just skip a turn of research and set taxes high for gold and then rev up to max for currency the turn after. I'm fine with that or just going for map making now.

I don't get how they got masonry and math so fast. I've been checking the cost of these techs and they've been full beaker price all along. Only ceremonial burial has been less expensive. I will go back a take another look see. I guess they could have been researching math and popped masonry from a hut.

EDIT: I went back and looked at the old saves and used CAII. Yep, masonry has been less expensive for a few turns. I should have used CAII before!

 

[Niklas]

I agree that MM is our best choice at this point. Don't want to delay any turns. We're going to need it in any case, and I think the faster the better.

 

[Paul#42]

Yep, MM then Curr or Cons.

They will be quicker researchers from the start because they expanded faster.
We get our strength later when the world gets crowded...

 

[donsig]

Here's a screen shot of our turn 107 domestic advisor if we had reasearch on 80%.



We would be 8 turns away from invention with a 34gpt deficit. We currently have 539g in the teasury and are taking in 96gpt at 0% science. Our current military supprt is 26gpt.

I don't have a bpt count. We'll have a couple libraries in 3 turns and another the turn after that. Then libraries take awhile to build.

Here's a post from zyxy from around turn 103:

I would definitely wait for the libs to finish. Perhaps even one at The Silo. A rough estimate for the number of turns to wait is obtained like this:
1) it seems that per turn we gain about as much gold as we need to pay upkeep for 1.5 turn of max science.
2) at full research we need 10 turns to finish Invention. We hardly invested any beakers, so let's assume that we need 30 turns of full research to get Invention, Gunpowder and Chemistry. (Of course Chemistry is way more expensive than Invention, so we should multiply the number of turns by more than 3 really, but I'm playing it safe in case our economy improves a lot).
3) To fund 30 turns of full research we need 20 turns of cash savings.

To be more on the safe side we could restart research in 15 turns or so. It of course depends a lot on unit count vs free support.

30 turns of max (80%) research at a 40gpt deficit costs 1200g. We're seven turns away from that amount. I'd say turn 115 is a reasonable goal for turning research back on. If we can get researching a turn or two before this we might even have invention by turn 120. Maybe even in time for a MAAP II signature from FREE.