Resolved: 2 leaders at once impossible

[linjon]

i have read discussions here saying they have had 2 great leaders at the same time. I find this hard to believe, unless it's an isolated bug. ( i once captured an enemies caravan in civ1- which i believe was impossible as they never travelled around, and once a rifleman popped out of a captured city in about the year 2000bc- again impossible-. I have been involved in hundreds of battles and have NEVER seen 2 leaders at the same time. I was attcked by a column of 80 pikeman, archers, etc, had all my infantry go elite but only 1 gl. I have gotten a gl, immediately used it, then gotten another one on the next 1 or 2 battles. I would like to see a save game of 2 gls in anybody has one.
ps- i would never go back to 1.16. i used to hate scrolling and clicking to clean up pollution. and scroll -click 40 times to move artlillery or bombers killed my wrists.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

I completely agree with you on the leader thing - you can have an indefinite number per turn AS LONG AS ONLY ONE IS ACTIVE. If you immediately "use" it, you can get another.....

And you are soooo right about stack movement and poll cleanup - but actually I didn`t use stack very much with 1.17. I just hope 1.18 keeps that and changes tech trading back.....

 

[Mapache]

In the save file there is the sequence LEAD and I suppose it's for the Leader. Every nation might have only one because there is no flexible space. I never had 2 in my games.
Does anyone know how to figure out the related tribe of the data segment in the save file?

 

[ChrisWade]

When you say 'use' leader, does making an army count?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by ChrisWade
When you say 'use' leader, does making an army count?

yep! Afterwards, he`s not a leader anymore, he`s an army unit, and the number of these is only limited by the number of towns / 4.

 

[Reichsmarshal]

Yes, it's true. You cannot have 2 at once. I have used many elite units and have seen this proven. The solution is to rapidly get another after using each one. ALWAYS try to get the Art of War, it's one of the best wonders.

 

[Aristos]

Well,

i'm sorry to tell you that i've seen two leaders at the same time in one of my firts games. I remember it very well. Now, why in the hell would i lie about that (or someone else)?

It happens, believe it or not. I don't know if it's a bug or a feature or a miracle; it just happened to me once.

Hope this clears the topic. C-ya


Rebel Rick

 

[Reichsmarshal]

Well I didn't do that many fights with any a leader active, so it was probably a coincedence that I did not get one.

Hm it's proven now that you really can have two. That is useful knowledge so that you don't waste leaders when waiting for a wonder.

 

[Hurricane]

ricardojahns doesn´t prove anything. Actually, none of you prove anything. Saying "I got 2 leaders at once" is as poor proof as "I have been involved in hundreds of battles and have NEVER seen 2 leaders at the same time."

Game rules say that you can´t have several leaders at once, but it is of course possible that there is some kind of bug in the game which makes this remotely possible anyway.

Several persons say they have had 2 leaders at once, but not even once has anybody been able to take a screenshot or post a savegame. So, if you want us to believe you had 2 leaders at once, show us the savegame!

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by Hurricane
ricardojahns doesn´t prove anything. Actually, none of you prove anything. Saying "I got 2 leaders at once" is as poor proof as "I have been involved in hundreds of battles and have NEVER seen 2 leaders at the same time."

Game rules say that you can´t have several leaders at once, but it is of course possible that there is some kind of bug in the game which makes this remotely possible anyway.

Several persons say they have had 2 leaders at once, but not even once has anybody been able to take a screenshot or post a savegame. So, if you want us to believe you had 2 leaders at once, show us the savegame!

calm down, hurricane , you`ll never see a save... I do have to admit that I had two leaders once, too. It was unpatched and the game crashed when the second leader came active - it`s a BUG! So I don`t think people are lying, they just mix Armies and leaders up or experienced the same prepatch bug.....

 

[Salvor]

Whether there's a bug or if it was possible in pre-patch games I can't answer.

But I believe it won't happen now, and I know how to test for it.

Simply save a game with an active GL, when you're in the middle of a war with a lot of elite units around.

Since the RNG seed is saved, the results should be the same no matter what as long as you conduct random orders in the same sequence.

Reload the save twice. The first time, use the GL right away to rush some building or form an army or something. Then do some attacks, being careful to record the order you do it in, until you get another GL.

Now go back and reload from the same save file, and do everything exactly the same, but this time don't use the GL. When you get to the point where the second GL should appear, I'm willing to wager he doesn't show up.

When I get home tonight I'm going to run just a test, and as soon as it's successful I'll post a savegame and the sequence of events to trigger the appearance/non-appearance of the GL.

 

[Barrius]

While winning and losing in combat seems to be predetermined, I am not sure promotions and leader production are. I once played a turn and got a leader but when I was sending him to my city I messed up and sent him into enemy territory (slip of the mouse). So I reloaded from a save at the beginning of the same turn and did everything the same. When I attacked with the elite unit that produced the leader the last time, it won but no leader was produced! So there must be some random thing that happens to decide if a leader is produced that is not predetermined.

 

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Salvor
When I get home tonight I'm going to run just a test, and as soon as it's successful I'll post a savegame and the sequence of events to trigger the appearance/non-appearance of the GL.

I did the test in December last year and, as you say, you won´t get the second leader if the first one is still around. However, this only proves that the chance of getting a second one if you already have one active, is lower than if you hadn´t got a leader already. I also posted a savegame (nickname Hurry): link

I also did another test, when I let a leader stay in my capital for a large number of turns. During this time I won 114 times with elite units and didn´t get any. Since I had the Heroic Epic, the chance of getting a leader is 1/12 - which means I, statistically, should have got about 10 leaders during this time. But again, this doesn´t prove that having two leaders at the same time is impossible, only highly unlikely.

 

[Salvor]

Oops. I forgot all about this and didn't run my test tonight. But seeing these new posts, it doesn't look like it'll do any good anyway.

For me, I've never seen two leaders at once and don't expect I ever will, and I just treat that as part of the game, so I don't save up leaders unless I have a specific use for one that can't be done right away (like travelling 3 or 4 turns to hurry a FP or a wonder).

 

[Mapache]

The more-than-one-leader faction could easily provide a save game with 2 active leaders.
And the dice roll is fixed in the save file. You need to use the same patchlevel, though. Leaders need a high/good dice roll, e.g. Spearman beating Tank.
I got most of my Leaders from defending Tanks, defending against attacking Cavalry.

 

[Aristos]

Originally posted by Hurricane
ricardojahns doesn´t prove anything. Actually, none of you prove anything. Saying "I got 2 leaders at once" is as poor proof as "I have been involved in hundreds of battles and have NEVER seen 2 leaders at the same time."

Game rules say that you can´t have several leaders at once, but it is of course possible that there is some kind of bug in the game which makes this remotely possible anyway.

Several persons say they have had 2 leaders at once, but not even once has anybody been able to take a screenshot or post a savegame. So, if you want us to believe you had 2 leaders at once, show us the savegame!

Jesus man, no doubt that your nick corresponds exactly to you... a hurricane, really...

look, it happened to me once, in those first days of 1.07f, and i do know well the difference between army and leaders. It just happened, maybe it was a bug, i don't care what it was... i just wanted to tell the tale.

In fact, who cares if it works that way or not. This post tends to be a waste of time. I rather prefer to discuss strategies or usefull mods, like the tomahawks or the dogfighting issue that nobody answered yet.

Take it easy, man, no one is a liar here... we are just civlovers, nothing else. Don't make a storm of a quiet wind...

C-ya

 

[ProPain]

Glad to see this thread. I asked the same question in a GOTM once where i didn't get a second leader after ages of fighting but got no clear answer.

Same this GOTM. Have been fighting for 2000 years or so, lotsa elites, no 2nd leader. My guess is it's just not possible unless you get your 2nd one thru a bug.

If anyone has a saved game with 2 GL active I would love to see it.

ProPain

 

[IronicWarrior19]

Originally posted by Mapache
Leaders need a high/good dice roll, e.g. Spearman beating Tank.

Untrue. I've got many leaders from war chariots/immortals/mounted warriors against spearmen/pikemen = almost 50-50 chance. It doesn't seem to affect the outcome.

 

[Salvor]

I think he meant that each victory has only a small chance (1/16 or 6.25%) of generating a GL, and therefore you need a good "die roll". Not that you had to win a battle against a superior opponent.