RFC Classical World

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

I got 2 great engineers out of Diospolis, then run max scientists in Alexandria.

@merijn_v1: I'm changing the Qin UB to an early forge. I know you probably put work into the Legalist School, so sorry about that. my reasoning is as follows:

Metal Casting now comes between Iron Working and Steel Working, this is necessary to delay Steel Working.
you need to get something for Metal Casting, so thats the Forge
I can't start the Qin with Metal Casting or they will be too close to Steel Working
the Qin absolutely need great engineers, or at least 1, for their wonder goal
so the Bronzeworks is a forge available with Iron Working
I know that sounds weird (Iron/Bronze) don't know what to do with that.
Bronze Working btw will be eliminated, along with all other techs that everyone starts with, no point in keeping them.

I haven't commited this yet. gonna play the Qin a bit 1st.

@rrosen: sorry about your luck but I'm glad the Seleucids and Romans attacked. I was wondering if they ever would. I think Egypt should have to fight the Seleucids every time. maybe they should start at war? it used to be that way but they rarely attacked then either. I've warmongered their leaderhead personalities as much as possible.

Cetrix · Apr 7, 2012

About city naming, srpt : should I add names in areas like Germany ? And west Africa ?

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

anything you want. go crazy. my own efforts were rushed and purely motivated by not wanting to see CITY_NAME_MISSING on the map.

I was going to add Kanem-Bornu as a historical respawn (using Egypt's slot around 400-500AD) so some names around Chad/Darfur would be useful.

merijn_v1 · Apr 7, 2012

srpt said:
I got 2 great engineers out of Diospolis, then run max scientists in Alexandria.

@merijn_v1: I'm changing the Qin UB to an early forge. I know you probably put work into the Legalist School, so sorry about that. my reasoning is as follows:

Metal Casting now comes between Iron Working and Steel Working, this is necessary to delay Steel Working.
you need to get something for Metal Casting, so thats the Forge
I can't start the Qin with Metal Casting or they will be too close to Steel Working
the Qin absolutely need great engineers, or at least 1, for their wonder goal
so the Bronzeworks is a forge available with Iron Working
I know that sounds weird (Iron/Bronze) don't know what to do with that.
Bronze Working btw will be eliminated, along with all other techs that everyone starts with, no point in keeping them.

Not at all. I just copy-paste it from RFCA, to have a placeholder UB.

Maybe everyone with an Google account (= also youtube account) should be able to change CNM we have on google-documents. I think this is faster and we don't overwrite each other.

Do you have an useful tool to add the names from the google-document or do you merge them in manually?

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

yes anyone who provides an email address (maybe it has to be gmail?) can use the google cityname document.

to transfer from that to the python file is just cut and paste. the cells of the spreadsheet become spaces or tabs or something like that. it works anyway.

KaiserBenjamin · Apr 7, 2012

By way of preamble, this is your mod so you should do whatever you want. He (or she) who does the work, should make the calls.

That said, I don't like that one of Carthage's goals is destroy Rome. The Carthaginians (to my knowledge) never wanted to destroy Rome. They were a merchant republic. Part of the reason they lost the first and second Punic War was Rome's unwilling to just grant some limited concessions after being defeated on the field. The Romans fought like it was a total war and the Carthaginians fought for more limited objectives. I would rather a goal that reflected this like "control Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia, and Sanguntum by ____ date."

srpt said:
these UHVs are not coded, but in terms of balance they are what I'm testing for with the first 9 playable civs:

Spoiler :

Seleucids:
1. control Alexander's empire before the Bactrian spawn in 220BC. ie 40 turns to take Anatolia, Greece, Egypt and Bactria
2. control the world's 3 largest cities in 100BC
3. receive 3 great generals by 100AD

Egypt
1. build the Great Lighthouse and Great Library
2. make Alexandria the largest and most cultural city in 0AD
3. be the first to research Cartography and Mathematics

Carthage
1. destroy the Romans
2. control 5 western mediterranean cities and 5 eastern
3. have access to 10 resources

Mauryans
1. control Asoka's empire by 150BC ie 75 turns to take about 8 cities and destroy the satavahanas
2. build 10 edicts (Mauryan UB, monument) by 200BC
3. become a buddhist saint

Nubia
1. control Nubia, Egypt and Axum in 150BC
2. be 1st in score in 0AD
3. never lose a city

Celts
1. control Gaul, Iberia, Britain and Illyricum in 100AD
2. sack Rome 3 times
3. be #1 in culture in 100AD

Armenia
1. control Armenia, Caucasus, Media, Syria
2. be the 1st Christian civ
3. control the Christian shrine in 200AD

Rome
1. control Trajan's empire in 100AD
2. make Constaninople the largest and most cultural city in 600AD
3. become a Christian saint

Han
1. control from Tarim to Annam in 100AD
2. be 1st in tech in 200AD
3. control 50% of the world's population

Bactria
1. build a palace in India by 150BC
2. be the richest civ in 50AD (Kushan spawn)
3. never lose a city before 50AD

Parthia
1. Shahanshah title (Zoroastrian religion + plus control Achmaenid empire)
2. world's largest empire in 0AD
3. kill 50 Roman units by 150AD

Cetrix · Apr 7, 2012

@KaiserBenjamin :
From Hannibal wikipedia :

According to Livy, Hannibal much later said that when he came upon his father and begged to go with him, Hamilcar agreed and demanded that he swear that as long as he lived he would never be a friend of Rome. There is even an account of him at a very young age begging his father to take him to an overseas war. In the story, Hannibal's father took him up and brought him to a sacrificial chamber. Hamilcar held Hannibal over the fire roaring in the chamber and made him swear that he would never be a friend of Rome. Other sources report that Hannibal told his father, "I swear so soon as age will permit...I will use fire and steel to arrest the destiny of Rome."

rrosen · Apr 7, 2012

Third try. This is with the update after you notified me of the new commit with updated strength.

I had forgotten slavery! With that, the infrastructure of Alexandria can grow much faster.

In 177 I was lucky enough that Nubia wanted to trade monarchy. But by then, I had already passed Babylon in culture. It was still a tight race for tech, even with slavery, all cities ran wealth at the end and I sold techs to everyone, but in 153 I built the great library! It would have been a turn earlier if I had remembered to whip a library.

Spoiler :

Judah were actually very willing to make peace, even when the "some of our forces are joining the enemy" still was going on. The remaining Maccabees were crushed by a Seleucid empire still going strong.

Spoiler :

An earthquake managed to destroy my fishing boats, first time that happens!

Spoiler :

I succeeded with the second goal with a size 13 Alexandria and 1650 vs 574 culture in Babylon. However, I was unusually lucky this time.
1) Nubians were willing to sell me monarcy, for the +100% culture royal mausoleum.
2) I got perfect great persons - first three engineers, for the great lighthouse, great library and royal mausoleum. Then I got a great artist that I planted in Alexandria.

Spoiler :

The Parthian - Seleucid balance seems to have tipped the other way. In 69 BC, Parthia collapsed, whereas Seleucds still were above Rome in score.

Spoiler :

In 54 BC the Seleucids collapse, maybe from overexpansion.

Spoiler :

The huge army of Seleucid, now independent, war elephants wanders close to Jerusalem.

Spoiler :

After that it was smooth sailing towards cartography. I did not have an enormous margin, I got it in 24 AD, but still comfortable enough not to have to fully optimize.

Spoiler :

Here is the power graphs at the end.

Spoiler :

Title!

Spoiler :

Here is the world. Rome has managed to conquer Greece, Dacia and parts of Anatolia. Celts and Carthage are still alive.

Spoiler :

This game, the Romans and Seleucids never attacked me.

Wessel V1 · Apr 7, 2012

I barely managed the first UHV as Egypt, 156 BC. I lost both workers on accident against a Lybian but on the contrary I discovered a source of gems around 220 BC. I think the nett gain from both events was about a turn or maybe two so I think it's in the safe margin. Fun part was that all cities, including Cyrene, had a part. Berenice is important to build Work boats (pearls), Cyrene can produce the Lighthouse (huge production potential), Jerusalem has Copper and a few other resources for happiness and health and Diospolis and Alexandria can be used for Workers and cottages. I didn't have problems with other civs, but I doubt that would have meant too much trouble. Seleucia liked my stone (got a few happiness and health resources for it), Nubia was afraid of the CR2 Galatian Swordsmen that I put on the hill 2 NE of Meroe, Carthage and Rome were not quite happy but I gave them some money. Barbarians were no trouble at all.

More goals left, so I'll continue this game. So far the cultural goal is fine, though I think I should have built the Lighthouse in Alexandria for culture. I didn't manage to keep Jerusalem (you won't see this on the screenshot though), but I think another Archer should to the trick. Jerusalem should just produce Archers anyway, don't mess around with Fairgrounds, these yield too little.

rrosen · Apr 7, 2012

Who wins of the Seleucid and Parthian Empire in your game?

Wessel V1 · Apr 7, 2012

In 128BC, the Seleucids are doing well, surprisingly. They even managed to take Jerusalem, from the seriously weakened Hebrews (which was on my account). The Mediterrenean is an interesting place in this game. Just take a look at the second and third picture, and notice the Seleucids in number 3.

Cetrix · Apr 7, 2012

I have a nice trick to see how the game is going in autoturn. First, you have to unlock cheats :
open _civ4config, find CheatCode = 0 and write CheatCode = chipotle.
Then, start a game with a late civ. Do ctrl + Z and... see the world living in autoturn (this cheat dissipate the fog of war, even in autoturn). It's a good way, in my opinion, to balance the game. You can also do alt + Z to instant play any civ ! (but the autoturning ends)

I like to do it a lot, starting new games more and more. It only takes about 10min to reach 0AD.
I will make a strong feedback about early civs with this trick.

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

I made some changes to the Qin and they are very doable and fun, at least up to the conclusion of the first two goals (wonders and pre-Han conquest).

they have a new UB, an early Forge they can use to generate an Engineer for the Terracotta Army, the dense forest around Xian is now choppable regular forest, they get one more chariot.

I took Luoyang, Qufu, Guangling and Changsha with the starting axemen and chariots and replacement axemen, teching for Military Drill, which is now quite easy to get in time. built a Forge in Xian and units everywhere else, axemen plus spearmen in the north and archers in the south, whipping constantly. settled Wu with the settler you start with so culture would cover Han province. left the 3 northern cities til last and shifted the bigger cities to wealth as the Han spawn approached. now I have to beat the Han. we'll see how that goes. they probably need a bigger starting stack if the human is playing Qin. there were some close calls, like the middle picture. a whipped archer saved me, wouldn't have had time to re-take the city.

and those changes are in the svn now.

@Cetrix: I had no idea, thats really cool.

merijn_v1 · Apr 7, 2012

For everyone who wants do something on the CNM, here is the link. (Maybe useful to put it in the first post)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgNZDB4N7rdPdFVtOFRsSTg2TXh4RUxTN2I2aXQwdlE

You can also create the CNM for other civs. You can do it this way:

Code:

# 3: Persian
{
[COLOR="Red"]	"Seleucia" : "Ctesiphon",
	"Persepolis" : "Parsa",
	"Ctesiphon" : "Ctesiphon",[/COLOR]
},

This is an example for all Persian civs. The only thing you have to do is the red part. The first name is the name as it is one the CNM in the link above. The second name is the name is the "new" name (in this case: Persia). Save all changes in a text files and we do the rest.

Example of citylist:

Spoiler :

Wessel V1 · Apr 7, 2012

59BC and I'm about to discover Cartography. It surely is a very nicely designed game, good job. Alexandria reached size 14 by 100BC, and it's main competitor was Seleucia. Massilia got pretty big too, size 14 now but probably not a danger for the second goal. Culture never seemed to be a problem, I was cruising at +10 for a long time, Obelisks and temples are needed anyway for happiness. After the loss of Jerusalem the Diplomacy Advisor became my best friend as there were many civs eager to trade for valuable techs like Horticulture, and Monarchy. Monarchy raised the happiness limit to 15 so it's a good addition to have as the Ptolemaics. The third goal appeared to be the hardest but I didn't have to reload to change my strategy. Fortunately, Scientists can bulb the Calendar and Mathematics, which is very important. I got 2 of those. Combined with another scientist that extended my Golden Age and a Merchant that conducted a Trade Mission in Seleucia, I could run 100% science with a -30 deficit for the rest of the game; 80% was about brake even. No war declarations were called which certainly helped but I had a small army to keep me safe for a while. No expansion beyond Cyrene. I couldn't take Jerusalem back, I didn't want to risk war against the Seleucids. All in all an entertaining game, incredibly neat but I think possible to recreate or improve. Meroe is an attractive city spot for example. The plague was no real danger, but it hurted my villages a bit.

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

I've spent a lot of time on Egypt. I'm glad they are fun. I think they could use just a bit more barbs and a bit more chance of war with the Seleucids or Rome.

here is the Qin situation after the Han spawn. quite interesting, I think. I wonder about Jinyang though. useless city, should probably remove it.

rrosen · Apr 7, 2012

Yup, Egypt turned out really nice.The only thing desired is a somewhat higher chance for war. Perhaps the Sleuecids and Rome should start with more negative attitude modifiers?

Cetrix · Apr 7, 2012

Oh, merjin _1, I did some work too on city names...

In Gaul, Hispania, Britannia and Italy, from the srpt link.

But I found more cities. Here are my maps I worked on :
http://www.emersonkent.com/images/roman_britain.jpg
http://www.pitt.edu/~medart/image/france/france-l-to-z/mapsfrance/sf038fra.jpg
http://0.tqn.com/d/ancienthistory/1/0/W/Y/2/Spain_shepherd-c-038-039.jpg

merijn_v1 · Apr 7, 2012

Sorry, I didn't know that. I used the same maps, so I think most of our maps are in sync. Especially the 2nd one is very good.

Feel free however to change it if you think your map is better.

Cetrix · Apr 7, 2012

I will add some cities, but this map is close to mine.

I'll work next on Anatolia.

RFC Classical World

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Deist

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Merovingian

Prince

Emperor

Attachments

Prince

Emperor

Attachments

Merovingian

Deist

Attachments

Black Belt

Emperor

Attachments

Deist

Attachments

Prince

Merovingian

Black Belt

Merovingian

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