RFC Classical World

[2phunkey4u]

Seleucids: The counter only counted two of the three I got. I settled one in Seleucia and lost the city briefly to Parthia. I've attached the save.
Qin: I was still in positive stability with three cities left. "You got defeated." No crucial date.
Parthia: I just played them on Viceroy and got the 7% territory in time (but could defenitely not have done it without the stack of units I got from a dow-on-flip). It checked early as a "by" goal, so I liberated some outer cities away to get Literature in time (also needed help from a Great Artist). Got the tech around 60BC and slave-rushed the Epic. UHV1 reset in 50BC and I lost both. I make the case that the territory goal should be "by", indeed, so that one can do it early an then focus on tech. Our Parthia should start with Military Drill to get to Literature easier.

 

[2phunkey4u]

On trade: Being all nice and only talking to Han does not help. They never trade their silk. "Surely, you must be joking..."

 

[2phunkey4u]

Bactrian UHV#3 checks "by", not "in". Should be "in" so that one get's to deal with Kushans for a little while.

 

[Tigranes]

I'm afraid at this point I need to appeal to everyone's patience. I am actually feeling a bit burnt out. Most of the issues I would like to address take me into new areas and I'm procrastinating a little about jumping into the total unknown again.

Srpt, I hear you, man, but take it easy please. I suggest you to make a plan and focus on 1 single civ per week. Korea is the first civ without UP. Lets get all the characters of this play well defined and ready so that we could focus on the plot . Bring the mod to the point that no civ has "power of nothing". Balance, art, new mechanics -- this all can wait. But UPs are the basics of basics -- interesting and smart UPs should be defined even before the UHVs. Slow and steady wins the race -- don't try to do everything at once .

 

[srpt]

fixed the Qin auto-defeat

 

[DC123456789]

There's still a lot of "CITY NAME MISSING" sites. If you want I can help you work on the city name maps.

 

[srpt]

Gokturk UP working now (1st cultural expansion free)

Khazar UP: chance to recruit defeated steppe barbarians

 

[Tigranes]

Very nice UP for Kushans!

By the way Mithridates LH is still a little funny: those beards were a feature of Bronze Age rulers of Messopatamia, rulers od Sumer and Akkad. Early Parthians were ander strong Hellenistic influence, they even used Greek on their coins, and Mithridates I looked like this:

 

[2phunkey4u]

Satavahana:

• you can make it 10.000 culture with CS and all the food on Northern India
• the conversion goal is currently not achievable because Vietnam cities are not counted

 

[srpt]

in the Satavahana conversion goal "southeast asia" is defined by province. I added Annam to the list so now its that plus Funan, Birma, Malaya, Sumatra, Java and Kalimantan (Borneo).

I would like to spawn a couple of indy cities in the area. I need to do some research for that. anyone know a good source? wikipedia is letting me down on early southeast asian history.

@Tigranes: I think eventually I will just learn how to edit leaderheads.

about Parthia: I don't want to start them with Military Drill since they already start with 3 military techs no-one else has at the time (Marksmanship, Selective Breeding and Horse Archery) and I don't think they need Heavy Spearmen since they have Marksmen to defend their cities. the date for their conquest goal can be adjusted if its impossible. I think it might be impossible at 50BC.

and if anyone wants to help, civ-specific, or at least region specific great people lists would be great.

 

[srpt]

I played a Qin game where pretty much everything went right and I got the wonders easily but was 2 cities away from the conquest goal in 215BC. they are a bit limited by not being able to whip units. they start with a settler but there are cities already in all the provinces they need and I've never felt I could spare the defense to found the city in Gansu.

I've given them 1 less chariot, 1 more archer and 1 more axeman and merged the Han and Wei provinces. also, because I had a hard time getting to Military Drill quick enough for the UU to matter, I gave Changan and Luoyang each a village.

 

[merijn_v1]

There's still a lot of "CITY NAME MISSING" sites. If you want I can help you work on the city name maps.

Here you can update the CNM:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgNZDB4N7rdPdFVtOFRsSTg2TXh4RUxTN2I2aXQwdlE

 

[DC123456789]

Here you can update the CNM:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgNZDB4N7rdPdFVtOFRsSTg2TXh4RUxTN2I2aXQwdlE

It's okay, I already have it.

 

[Tigranes]

I played a Qin game where pretty much everything went right and I got the wonders easily but was 2 cities away from the conquest goal in 215BC. they are a bit limited by not being able to whip units. they start with a settler but there are cities already in all the provinces they need and I've never felt I could spare the defense to found the city in Gansu.

I've given them 1 less chariot, 1 more archer and 1 more axeman and merged the Han and Wei provinces. also, because I had a hard time getting to Military Drill quick enough for the UU to matter, I gave Changan and Luoyang each a village.

We don't have cities in all the provinces Qin had conquered -- nothing in Zhou or Yan, for example. Each major Warring State should be represented by at least one city, IMO.

Village for Changan never gets into the BFC. I am a big fan of spreading VIllages around the core areas -- like in SoI -- sometimes one can pillage them for emergency cash

I need to bring an issue of settling slaves as citizens again -- one can settle up to 5 slaves in the cities but never more than a population number of the city. There were settled slaves in the cities, you know, why do you resist the idea? Plus settled citizens look so fresh and cool!

One should also be able to "breed" (train) slaves under certain condition and be able to buy them. Warfare was not the only way to acquire slaves after all!

This page contains some useful lists of people, unfortunately nobody did anything about the list of ancient Armenians...

 

[srpt]

there are cities in Zhou and Yan. they are not there in 320BC but spawn a few years later.

I'm a little wary of giving too much to one civic. what happens to your settled slaves if you switch out of slavery? SoI has code that removes settled great people during the Mongol invasions, I'll have a look at that.

buying slaves would require something like the mercenary system. a bit complicated for me to tackle right now.

Qin start: took away their settler and gave them the city of Tai-yuan instead. its in there core province so it seems fair. I think this will make the early conquest goal doable.

 

[srpt]

now that Slavery has all this extra stuff and more coming I'd like to do something to Caste System that I wanted to do earlier but was hesitant to do since it seemed to overpower the other civics. I thought it would be nice for Caste System to mirror the 4 basics castes: priests, warriors, farmers/merchants and laborers (source). something like this:

Brahmins: unlimited Priests
Kshatritas: +1 xp land units
Vaishyas: +1 gold from farm?
Shudras: citizens produce 2 hammers? or 1 hammer 1 food?

any other ideas? -25 or 50% great people could be added as well. and Caste System should not be tradeable and cause significant instability with religions other than Hinduism.

as for Serfdom, I think whipping almost better represents having life or death control over your entire population (or 90% anyway) than it does slavery, and if all labor civics are to measure up to slavery I think this is the best way for Serfdom to do so.

and another thing, I've seen some quite interesting AI results lately. I've seen Roman Egypt in 180BC, the Mauryans survive the Sunga rebellion, and the Seleucids still kicking in 80BC. I've also seen Parthia with nearly the entire Achaemenid empire and almost double the score of its nearest rivals in 50AD.

 

[Tigranes]

any other ideas?

No single civic should be all good or all bad -- but rather player should be able to chose to give up something in order to gain something. Vaishyas can produce extra food on the plot with 2 foods (before farming), while Shudras should produce 1 extra hummer with 1 unhealthiness.

Drawback with slavery should be slave revolts. Classical World's glory was possible only thanks to the slave labor, even Aristotle was defending slavery, so there is no surprise that Classical World mod has a very unique Slavery civic.

Caste System should be enabled for Hinduism only -- no stability penalties, just convert or stay away from Caste System.

Settled Slave can become a private citizens and disappear from city screen, just like you no longer see free specialists if you switch from corresponding civics. Laborer Slaves need to be disbanded (freed) before player will be able to switch from Slavery. Perhaps there is a way to do it in Python?

 

[srpt]

I don't want to disallow Caste System totally for non-Hindu civs. only the Mauryans start with a state religion (which is their UP) and its Buddhism. Caste Sysytem's free priests are crucial to the Mauryans sainthood UHV. the other 2 early Indian civs do not start with a state religion. Caste System will be an exspensive tech, not tradeable and cause instability and maybe unhappiness too in cities with religions other than Hinduism. Hindu State Releigion plus Caste System will be a stability plus.

I'm realizing now that slave revolts stopped when I turned off events. I will turn them back on. certain civs like Saba were getting crazy amounts of monsoons and earthquakes.

I like the idea of Vaishyas giving gold from farms because it sort of represents merchants and farmers, which is an odd pairing in civ terms.

I think 2 hammers per citizen is ok if we go with -50% great people.

Classical World's glory was possible only thanks to the slave labor, even Aristotle was defending slavery, so there is no surprise that Classical World mod has a very unique Slavery civic.

the mod isn't just about the Classical mediterranean world though, its also about the Indian classical world, so caste system is just as important in my view. thats not to say I don't want slavery to be a well developed part of the mod, but I want caste system taht way as well

 

[The Flame8]

Trying to download off of site, no files to download. Can you provide a nonsvn link?

 

[srpt]

I've tried uploading to 2 different sites (sourceforge and atomic gamer) and my browser is freezing when I click to upload. perhaps merijn_v1 could put up a new version somewhere? sorry about this.