RFC Europe: Extending/Fixing City Name Maps

[jessiecat]

As they are in this version???

As they are in the latest version. You have already made revisions as far east as Algiers. Are you thinking of revising everything from there east to Alexandria? I suggest you use the cityname helper and look at what's already there before you try changing everything. And I hope you've got access to maps showing all of North Africa showing names in the Berber language as they were in 700AD. I haven't found such a source myself. The best I could find where maps of the 19thC showing local place names. If you think you can do better, do so.

 

[micbic]

micbic, I have couple of fixes to make to the Bulgarian/Byzantine/Turkish and perhaps Kievan maps. More often than not the AI founds Tomis, which at this time was not a significant city. Both Varna and Kavarna were much bigger more influential (Varna was for a long time the largest Black Sea port north of Constantinople and Kavarna was the capital of a large independent state).

So my question is: Do I give you a WB file with markings, or do I make the changes myself and give you the updated city name map. Since I am taking over for sedna17, it is now me doing the coding and you doing the city name maps.

Whatever is easier for you.

 

[Michael Vick]

No, I'm done with my revisions, I got involved in Africa to improve the Spanish/Portuguese game. Then I got into Arab names to coordinate with the Spanish maps. If we don't need this in Berber then the screenshots I've sent will suffice. I think the maps I've made are much much more accurate. No offense to whoever made the first ones but it seems like they just wanted to cover up the area as quickly as possible and move on. The maps I made took a lot of work with researching old maps, finding their correct translation, and then pinpointing the most accurate spot for them on the RFC map.

Right now in Africa, the locations are off and all the spellings are in English. Could you please consider putting my maps in?

 

[jessiecat]

No, I'm done with my revisions, I got involved in Africa to improve the Spanish/Portuguese game. Then I got into Arab names to coordinate with the Spanish maps. If we don't need this in Berber then the screenshots I've sent will suffice. I think the maps I've made are much much more accurate. No offense to whoever made the first ones but it seems like they just wanted to cover up the area as quickly as possible and move on. The maps I made took a lot of work with researching old maps, finding their correct translation, and then pinpointing the most accurate spot for them on the RFC map.

Right now in Africa, the locations are off and all the spellings are in English. Could you please consider putting my maps in?

I appreciate all you've done but I do have a couple of questions. You say you researched old maps and found correct translations. What sources did you use? They must have been better than any I've ever seen. As I've already said, the names in North Africa are all from 19thC maps usually in French but with Berber names AFAIK. Also I'm not aware of any names in English. Which ones? Is Tunis English? Is Oran English? Please explain.

Edit. I accept that too many names cover 4-5 tiles but they are authentic and mostly from this map.
Is this unacceptable as a source then? If you like I will go back and revise the section east of Algiers
so there are more names included. OK?

 

[Michael Vick]

Well some of the city names are compatible with Spanish and Portuguese such as Oran or fes, but yes, they are all in English for all of the civs. "Tangier" is English, in Spanish, French and Portuguese it is "Tanger", in Arabic and Berber it is Tanja (not Tanjah). Next example is Casablanca. "Casablanca" is the modern English spelling. It began as a port called "Anfa" under Berber rule. This site was captured and razed by the Portuguese. The Portuguese built a new town over the ruins called "Casa Branca", White House in Portuguese. When it switched to Spanish hands for a period it was called "Casa Blanca" (note the space). In 1755, it was abandoned by European colonists, taken over by and Arab sultan, he named the city "ad-Dar al-Bayda", meaning "white house" in Arabic. It became "Casablanca" during French rule, which is not in our mod. So as you can see, the name "Casablanca" has no role in our history of the city.
See what I mean by "english"? I will back up everyone of the names I provided for other tiles if I have to.

 

[3Miro]

micbic, here is the maps file with a very small change in the Byzantine and Bulgarian maps.

I hope it doesn't interfere with what you are doing.

 

[micbic]

It does not interface with what I am currently doing - many thanks.

 

[Michael Vick]

I haven't gotten a chance to download the newest version, are any of my maps included?

@Jessiecat, I don't care what your source is, and I don't really have any problems with the names East of Algiers. My problem is that the current names for Morocco and Western Algeria are in English, and are in the wrong locations. You don't need some obscure map. use google maps, u find appropriate locations, then u check those locations for historical importance and wether or not they fit the time frame. Then you translate, I speak Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian, so that part isn't as hard, usually if you scour the Internet for long enough u can find Arabic names as well.(it's on wikipedia most of the time )

 

[jessiecat]

I haven't gotten a chance to download the newest version, are any of my maps included?

@Jessiecat, I don't care what your source is, and I don't really have any problems with the names East of Algiers. My problem is that the current names for Morocco and Western Algeria are in English, and are in the wrong locations. You don't need some obscure map. use google maps, u find appropriate locations, then u check those locations for historical importance and wether or not they fit the time frame. Then you translate, I speak Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian, so that part isn't as hard, usually if you scour the Internet for long enough u can find Arabic names as well.(it's on wikipedia most of the time )

1. I think not. You need to remind micbic about that.

2. Thanks for the tip. I guess I really don't know how to research something, do I?

 

[Michael Vick]

1.This is my reminder to you, micbic
2. No no, I think you were just trying too hard. (lol I can't tell if you're being sarcastic!)

 

[Michael Vick]

1.This is my reminder to you, micbic
2. No no, I think you were just trying too hard. (lol I can't tell if you're being sarcastic!)

 

[micbic]

1.This is my reminder to you, micbic
2. No no, I think you were just trying too hard. (lol I can't tell if you're being sarcastic!)

Exactly at time (telepathy?), I have a new file, with some changes based on your maps (Sicily, Sardinia, Genoa zone and South Italy, as well as Panteleria and Malta) and the Lubeck fix. Sorry didnt do more, exams finished yesterday

 

[Michael Vick]

Telepathy... Or something much, much more. Could a higher being possibly want these maps in the next version?
Genoa? Like the Genoa strip or Genoa and Lombardy? (both should be in the Spanish settler map) also, remember that coast West of Genoa comes in three languages.
Nobody ever replied to the Angra do Heroismo idea, can we include it?
Also Morocco, I'm not entirely sure but it seems as if Jessiecat might have finally acquiesced to the maps? Let's atleast get that desert-y coast of Western Sahara in. If he still disagrees though, put it on hold. I knew there was a very slim
Chance of getting that map passed that I made for Southeast Spain, has anybody looked at it?

 

[jessiecat]

Telepathy... Or something much, much more. Could a higher being possibly want these maps in the next version?
Genoa? Like the Genoa strip or Genoa and Lombardy? (both should be in the Spanish settler map) also, remember that coast West of Genoa comes in three languages.
Nobody ever replied to the Angra do Heroismo idea, can we include it?
Also Morocco, I'm not entirely sure but it seems as if Jessiecat might have finally acquiesced to the maps? Let's atleast get that desert-y coast of Western Sahara in. If he still disagrees though, put it on hold. I knew there was a very slim
Chance of getting that map passed that I made for Southeast Spain, has anybody looked at it?

What was the Angra do Heroismo idea? Anyway, I thought we already agreed on your changes in Morocco, Spain and Western Sahara. Even Tanger though I prefer it where it is. I thought all those changes were with micbic already anyway. That's between you guys. I'm going to have a look at France next. Might even do it in French too. That OK with you.

 

[Michael Vick]

Great! BTW tangier is tanja without an h. I had an idea to put in an extra island of the Azores, Terceira, it is the location of "Angra", the first settlement in the bla bla bla... It's all explained in a previous post, my last screenshots, I think (post 334)

 

[Myri]

German city names should be fixed.

- Lubeck, Basle isn't german, it's Lübeck (Luebeck if necessary) and Basel
- unimportant Frankfurt is a bad choice as capitel, if you need a city at that location choose Mainz
- Halberstedt, Wittenberg aren't large cities

Just played and most likely missed most problems; if you tell me how i could fix the german map.

bye Myri

 

[Michael Vick]

Basel can be changed, Lubeck cannot. I think the problem was that the computers of some people were having trouble displaying the fancy foreign grammatical symbols not found on English keyboards. I support a version with special symbols though.
I think that "Germany" should be an occurance that spawns in Berlin in 1700. The earlier version of Germany should just be a straight Holy Roman Empire IMO. Then we use whatever capitol they had.
I don't know about Halberstadt, but Wittenberg is considered the Protestant Holy City in our mod. (Atleast it should be, not Stockholm every single game! )


Micbic! What maps will be included in the next version?

There's lots of stuff, list:

Spanish: Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, Provence, SE Spain, Morocco, Algeria, Madeiras, Azores, Athens (Also, I heard somebody made a Spanish map for Benelux?)
Portuguese: Madeiras, Azores, Morocco
Italian: Lombardy, Genoa, Provence, Sardinia, Corsica
French: Provence, Corsica, Lombardy
Arabic: Morocco, Algeria, SE Spain

I'll put them all in one spot to make it easier. Here is Spanish.

 

[sk8er AG]

I agree on the whole Germany thing. I think the first state called Germany was the one created by Bismarck in the 1860s and 70s. Therefore, I think ideally there should be a state that represents the holy roman empire, meaning it would include Austria and the various german states it did historically, and maybe be a threat to the Italian city states. However, how to deal with the collapse of the HRE would be somewhat difficult so Austria could appear, and maybe Prussia could be added.

 

[Myri]

1st century Germania
962 Holy Roman Empire
15th century Holy Roman Empire of German Nation
1871 German Empire
1949 Federal Republic of Germany

The HRE never had a capital de jure, de facto capital varied over time, so many cities would be ok as capital, but not Frankfurt. Aachen, were the emporer was crowned, would be best, but it's in the dutch spawn zone.

You can write Lübeck in ascii code as Luebeck, but not Lubeck. Found Koln, that is Köln, or Koeln in ascii.

Wittenberg is named Wittenburg and shouldn't be a Holy City, not even a Holy Village, just a small city were Luther lived. If you really need a Protestant Holy City (why?) make it Dresden, the Capital of the Electorate of Saxony. The church where Luther nailed his theses to the door isn't a world wonder i think , the Cologne (that's Köln) Cathedral would fit better.

bye Myri

 

[micbic]

Re: Michael Vick's question: Whatever I manage to get, I hope it will be some work (and keep in mind that a snatch of the Spanish map is included) .
Re: Luebeck-Koeln: Perhaps it is more correct in that form, but Lubeck/Koln is more easily understood.
Re: Wittenberg-Halberstadt: You are right, Wittenberg is the correct name. Both were cities of a mediocre importance, I will see if I find anything better in the area.