RFC Europe: Kyivan Rus and East Europe

[Michael Vick]

try google maps to find city name candidates, then research them on wikipedia, you'll eventually find something.

 

[3Miro]

The UHV would be implemented in the next version. It is interesting to see how it would work for an UHV that provided two very different ways of achieving it.

 

[3Miro]

A note, Moscow would probably settle most of the land east of Poland (including the chuvash territories). So some names would be appropriate even if they are local and not Russian.

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

try google maps to find city name candidates, then research them on wikipedia, you'll eventually find something.

Dear friend, I'm not a stupid man, OK?
I had used wide spectrum of historical sources, Wikipedia too (from Wiki I had used great material of oldest historical cities of Russia (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/&#1055...4;_России - on russian, excuse me).
The problem is that fact, what moskovian start to settle some land on late ages. North-east of european Russia is cold tajga, swamps and forested tundra. Nothern Caucasus is the land of agressive hilanders and the land with big danger of crimean tatar's raids (slave trading, pillage).

So some names would be appropriate even if they are local and not Russian.

Yes, of course We are only want to discuss of city-naming. Tomorrow or day after tomorrow I post our variant. And later we can discuss about it, OK?

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

Hello again. I'm sorry for delay. My job is damaged by crisis too That's why, I had been late to post my russian cities placing's work. More, I thought about 2x2 cities, but had no times for work.

Now, I post my old map, as is. If my friends from CFR shell hep me, new map will post on near future

PS
We are glad for using our map in last version of mod! Thanks for you!!!

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

I have a good news!

I correct my city placing (added some cities on Caucasus and set sizes of all my cities no more then 2x2 tiles). If you can use it on next version of RFCE-mod, I'll be very glad!

 

[TimeShifter]

Uh... This area appears to have horribly wrong city name map :
Kursk is close, but Khabarovsk and Omsk...
And not Brjanks, but Brjansk. It's wrong too but not SO far...

 

[embryodead]

Uh... This area appears to have horribly wrong city name map :
Kursk is close, but Khabarovsk and Omsk...
And not Brjanks, but Brjansk. It's wrong too but not SO far...

Those are left-overs on the Polish city list, they're used whenever Poland settles a city that is not in the city name array. If they found it in Germany, you'd have Khabarovsk in Germany I think the name arrays will eventually cover everything, I'll see if I can help with that.

 

[AlexZanderUser]

Sorry for my bad English. I’m writing, because Members of Civfanatics.ru request me post it.
Slavic land is joined without resistance, and also after joining to Moscovian these cities save all culture points. Cossack would be better Boyar instead. Also The beginning for Moscovian should be 1263 AD, when It begins independent princedom.
Moscow’s UHV:
1) Player must merges all Russian lands before 1480 AD. Merge all existing independent cities.
2) Conquest Kazan, Nizhniy Novgorod and Astrahan before then 1547 AD (period of 1547-1552)
3) By 1750 AD Controlling territory of Saint Petersburg (You should plant there Swedish city, because Russia must war with Sweden since 1701 to 1721 AD and Russia must conquest this Swedish city, that will renamed to St.Petersurg

Should be new civ: Novgorod princedom (Existing since 862 to 1478 AD). Unic of this Civ: Boyar Republic (=Parlament) : +1 food, +2 hummers, 3 money of each city. UU: Ushkuynick (=Galley)
UHV for it:
1) Player must populates North lands of Russia (Rostov, Pskov, Yaroslavl) before 1100 AD
2) Pope should declare to Poland, Sweden and Germans Cruisade to Novgorod before 1230-1250 AD. Novgorod princedom must save this city
3) Perhaps, Ortodoxian Christianity must be extended 7 North Russians city before 1380 AD

Kievan:
UHV: Controlling North Coast of Black Sea and Central Russia (Kursk, Smolensk etc.) (Stability map for Kievan about North Coast of Black Sea must be red/yellow)
Unic Setting for this Civ: Each conquesting or planting city get Churche and Christianity as religion (same as Arabs)

Poland must get new UHV: Control Kiev and Bryansk before 1377, Moscow before 1610
Kazan should be got access to Siberia for Russian Colonization.
For example: Project Siberia: 2 forest, apples, 2 trading ways + 1 Trader
Project Far East: 2 fishes, crabs, whales and clams. 1 gold, silver, 4 trading ways, +1 trader.

Idea of wd3rer, translated by AlexZanderUser (u must know me in lobby of Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword), approved by civfanatics.ru
Best wishes, AlexZander

 

[micbic]

Re: Novgorod No more civs will enter the phase, since it requires a lot of work (another request for civ addition (Aragon) was rejected). Novgorod is already an indy, we might get it up stronger.

Re: Other UHVs: Good ideas

 

[merijn_v1]

Sorry for my bad English. I’m writing, because Members of Civfanatics.ru request me post it.
Slavic land is joined without resistance, and also after joining to Moscovian these cities save all culture points. Cossack would be better Boyar instead. Also The beginning for Moscovian should be 1263 AD, when It begins independent princedom.
Moscow’s UHV:
1) Player must merges all Russian lands before 1480 AD. Merge all existing independent cities.
2) Conquest Kazan, Nizhniy Novgorod and Astrahan before then 1547 AD (period of 1547-1552)
3) By 1750 AD Controlling territory of Saint Petersburg (You should plant there Swedish city, because Russia must war with Sweden since 1701 to 1721 AD and Russia must conquest this Swedish city, that will renamed to St.Petersurg

Should be new civ: Novgorod princedom (Existing since 862 to 1478 AD). Unic of this Civ: Boyar Republic (=Parlament) : +1 food, +2 hummers, 3 money of each city. UU: Ushkuynick (=Galley)
UHV for it:
1) Player must populates North lands of Russia (Rostov, Pskov, Yaroslavl) before 1100 AD
2) Pope should declare to Poland, Sweden and Germans Cruisade to Novgorod before 1230-1250 AD. Novgorod princedom must save this city
3) Perhaps, Ortodoxian Christianity must be extended 7 North Russians city before 1380 AD

Kievan:
UHV: Controlling North Coast of Black Sea and Central Russia (Kursk, Smolensk etc.) (Stability map for Kievan about North Coast of Black Sea must be red/yellow)
Unic Setting for this Civ: Each conquesting or planting city get Churche and Christianity as religion (same as Arabs)

Poland must get new UHV: Control Kiev and Bryansk before 1377, Moscow before 1610
Kazan should be got access to Siberia for Russian Colonization.
For example: Project Siberia: 2 forest, apples, 2 trading ways + 1 Trader
Project Far East: 2 fishes, crabs, whales and clams. 1 gold, silver, 4 trading ways, +1 trader.

Idea of wd3rer, translated by AlexZanderUser (u must know me in lobby of Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword), approved by civfanatics.ru
Best wishes, AlexZander

Welcome to RFCEurope. But I have some comments on your suggestions.

Moscow:
UHV:
You're 1st and 2nd UHV are the same if I'm right. You should change that. (and we already have that UHV for the moscovians)
I thought St. Petersburg was founded by St. Peter. And not by the Swedish. I don't like the idea you must be at war with someone.

There is no room left for other Civs. And we already have 2 Slavic civs.

Kievan:
Your suggested UP isn't Unique. You said it yourself. I like the UP they have now.

Poland:
You can't have 2 different dates in 1 UHV.
We have thought about Russian "Colonies". But yours are too powerfull. They should only provide 2 or 3 resources. But I liked (and still do) this idea.

 

[3Miro]

At this point we are not including new civilizations, so Novgorod will have to wait.

Early Moscow spawn coincides with the Mongol invasion and you don't want hordes of Mongols mowing you on tree turns after spawn. Moscow was conquered and then gained its independence, so we decided to make that time the official "spawn date."

We should change the Boyars. Can we have pre-gunpowder Cossacks.

UHVs that you are proposing are essentially the same as the ones that we have now:
1) Player must merges all Russian lands before 1480 AD. Merge all existing independent cities. = Large number of cities (we were using 12 now). Most of those would be conquered anyway.
2) Conquest Kazan, Nizhniy Novgorod and Astrahan before then 1547 AD (period of 1547-1552) = Get the Mongols out of Europe. We are diminishing Kazan, but it is technically right on the border of Europe.
3) By 1750 AD Controlling territory of Saint Petersburg (You should plant there Swedish city, because Russia must war with Sweden since 1701 to 1721 AD and Russia must conquest this Swedish city, that will renamed to St.Petersurg = We have the Russian - Swedish conflict via the Atlantic Access with the Russian - Turkish conflict with Constantinople as a historical alternative.

As I note for Arabs/Turks and Russia, we do not try to represent those countries, but rather the effect and relations that they had with Europe. We only represent the Eurocentric part of Russian history.

We may extend Kiev's control requirement as long as it doesn't make it too hard to fight off the Mongols. We may be able to do that with simple rearrangement of the resources to encourage growth to the north. We may change Kiev's UP, however, we do not with to duplicate powers. I am sure they spread Orthodoxy to many cities in the region, but were not as zealous as the Arabs.

We had many discussions about Siberia and we decided not to include it as "colony" any more then the Arabs have conquests to the east. We may include it as part of the Russian UP. Also, the way you have it stated cannot be implemented and even if it could, it would still be too overpowered.

Poland is one of the countries that needs 100% overhaul.

 

[3Miro]

There is no room left for other Civs. And we already have 2 Slavic civs.

There are 3 "pure" (without sounding Nazi) Slavic civs: Moscow, Kiev and Poland as well as Bulgaria which was ruled by the Bulgars, but had dominant Slavic population and even adopted Slavic as the official language. The Cyrillic alphabet was also first adopted in Bulgaria.

Depending on how you look at it, you have 3.5 - 4 Slavic nations.

 

[AlexZanderUser]

You're 1st and 2nd UHV are the same if I'm right.

No. 2nd UHV mean conquesting of Ioann IV.

St. Peter

That Peter wasnt Saint. It was Peter The Great. U're right, but villages around present St. Petersburg was have by Sweden. If U remember, Russia lost Neva river after Smolens war in 17 century.

 

[merijn_v1]

There are 3 "pure" (without sounding Nazi) Slavic civs: Moscow, Kiev and Poland as well as Bulgaria which was ruled by the Bulgars, but had dominant Slavic population and even adopted Slavic as the official language. The Cyrillic alphabet was also first adopted in Bulgaria.

Depending on how you look at it, you have 3.5 - 4 Slavic nations.

Sorry. I meant "Russian" Civs. But Russian isn't the correct word either. But I hope you understand I mean Moscow and Kiev.

 

[merijn_v1]

No. 2nd UHV mean conquesting of Ioann IV.

That Peter wasnt Saint. It was Peter The Great. U're right, but villages around present St. Petersburg was have by Sweden. If U remember, Russia lost Neva river after Smolens war in 17 century.

I know it is a other thing in history. But the task is the same. Control Russia.

I forgot that thing about Peter. But I don't know much about the Russian history, so I assume you're right.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Sorry. I meant "Russian" Civs. But Russian isn't the correct word either. But I hope you understand I mean Moscow and Kiev.

"East Slavic" is the term you're looking for

 

[wd3rer]

Early Moscow spawn coincides with the Mongol invasion and you don't want hordes of Mongols mowing you on tree turns after spawn. Moscow was conquered and then gained its independence, so we decided to make that time the official "spawn date."

Moscow has never been conquered by the Mongols! only a case of looting. But it does not capture. Put next to Moscow, a source of copper or iron, and allow them to produce guisarme! Another Kremlin provides excellent protection! Moscow has historically been surrounded by forests and more powerful cities in that period. Later, because of this, Moscow has increased in population and the army, and gradually became an empire unite!

UHVs that you are proposing are essentially the same as the ones that we have now:
1) Player must merges all Russian lands before 1480 AD. Merge all existing independent cities. = Large number of cities (we were using 12 now). Most of those would be conquered anyway.
2) Conquest Kazan, Nizhniy Novgorod and Astrahan before then 1547 AD (period of 1547-1552) = Get the Mongols out of Europe. We are diminishing Kazan, but it is technically right on the border of Europe.
3) By 1750 AD Controlling territory of Saint Petersburg (You should plant there Swedish city, because Russia must war with Sweden since 1701 to 1721 AD and Russia must conquest this Swedish city, that will renamed to St.Petersurg = We have the Russian - Swedish conflict via the Atlantic Access with the Russian - Turkish conflict with Constantinople as a historical alternative.

As I note for Arabs/Turks and Russia, we do not try to represent those countries, but rather the effect and relations that they had with Europe. We only represent the Eurocentric part of Russian history.

1)But this must be done not as a momentary joining now, let Moscow to develop herself string any land!
2)These 1 and 2 wins are different in that 1 win RUSSIAN string any land, 2 wins OCCUPY longer RUSSIAN!
If I use the proposed
Slavic land is joined without resistance, and also after joining to Moscovian these cities save all culture points, then with 2 wins, some cities will not be so join without resistance
3)But Russia has never controlled Constantinople, but controlled the Rostov-on-Don to take away Turkey, Belarus and ukraine from Poland, St. Petersburg from Sweden

1) http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Файл:Muscovy_1300-1462.png
2) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Рост_русского_государства_при_Иване_IV.jpg

We may extend Kiev's control requirement as long as it doesn't make it too hard to fight off the Mongols. We may be able to do that with simple rearrangement of the resources to encourage growth to the north. We may change Kiev's UP, however, we do not with to duplicate powers. I am sure they spread Orthodoxy to many cities in the region, but were not as zealous as the Arabs.

Then you should post a desire to spread Orthodox Kiev, from him throughout the Soviet place is the main religion is Orthodox Christianity

We had many discussions about Siberia and we decided not to include it as "colony" any more then the Arabs have conquests to the east. We may include it as part of the Russian UP. Also, the way you have it stated cannot be implemented and even if it could, it would still be too overpowered.

Sorry but in my opinion to give Russia an UP as absorption of the contents of cities (the force of Siberia) - foolish as colonized Siberia only in 1600, is obtained for the period 1263-1600 a unique power in Moscow essentially invented

Poland is one of the countries that needs 100% overhaul.

Good!

Kievan:
Your suggested UP isn't Unique. You said it yourself. I like the UP they have now.

Well, I do not like today's UP, in my opinion does not fit entirely

Poland:
You can't have 2 different dates in 1 UHV.

Let it be to control the Bryansk and Kiev in 1377

We have thought about Russian "Colonies". But yours are too powerfull. They should only provide 2 or 3 resources. But I liked (and still do) this idea.

Well, Europe is building 6 of the colonial project, it is normal, Russia 2 - already bust? Understand Siberia vast territory that is still not fully understood, it keeps a lot of resources

I know it is a other thing in history. But the task is the same. Control Russia.

I forgot that thing about Peter. But I don't know much about the Russian history, so I assume you're right.

All the same it is different.
But if you say obedenim those 2 wins, what will we have a new victory? Throughout its history 1300-1800 Russia waged war, colonization, only since 1800 Culture, people, science came up, and it is not included in the time interval for this map


Sorry my bad english!
Translated in translate.google.ru

 

[wd3rer]

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Крещение_Руси
in russian language

Известно, что первыми епископскими кафедрами, кроме Киева, была Новгородская, а также, возможно, Черниговская и Владимир-Волынская и Белгородская (ныне селение Белогородка под Киевом).
На части территорий христианство насаждалось силой; при этом уничтожались культовые сооружения язычников, сопротивлявшиеся подвергались репрессиям.
Согласно некоторым летописным свидетельствам[25], Новгород оказал активное сопротивление насаждению христианства: он был крещён в 990 году епископом Иоакимом при военной помощи киевского воеводы Добрыни (брат матери князя Владимира — Малуши) и тысяцкого Путяты[26].
В Ростове и Муроме сопротивление насаждению христианства, согласно традиционной церковной истории, продолжалась до XII века: два первых епископа, посланные в Ростов, были изгнаны, а третий — св. Леонтий — погиб от рук язычников в 1073 (согласно прологу, в 993)[27]. Ростовчане были крещены только лишь епископом Исаией († 15 мая 1090)[28], восшедшим на кафедру в 1078 году. К 1070-м, видимо, относятся и события, описанные в «Житии»[29][30] Авраамия Ростовского, в частности сокрушение им идола Велеса, на месте которого был воздвигнут Богоявленский монастырь.

It is known that the first bishop's chairs, not in Kiev, was Novgorod, and, possibly, Chernihiv and Volyn, Vladimir, Belgorod (now Belogorodka village near Kiev).
On the part of the territories Christianity was implanted by force, while places of worship destroyed by the Gentiles, resisted were subjected to reprisals.
According to some chronicles [25], Novgorod, Russia has actively resisted the planting of Christianity: he was baptized in 990 by Bishop Joachim in military aid to the Kiev governor Dobryni (mother's brother Prince Vladimir - Malusha) and tysyatskogo Putyata [26].
In Rostov and Murom resistance to planting of Christianity, according to the traditional church history, lasted until the XII century: the two first bishop sent to Rostov, were expelled, and the third - St. Leonti - died at the hands of the Gentiles in 1073 (according to the prologue, in 993) [27]. The Rostov had been baptized only Bishop Isaiah († 15 May 1090) [28], who ascended the pulpit in 1078. By the 1070-meters, apparently, are and the events described in the Life "[29] [30] Abraham of Rostov, in particular, to crush them to the idol of Veles, in the place which was built Epiphany Monastery.

 

[wd3rer]

My version of the location of cities