RFC Europe map development thread

[st.lucifer]

Transposition finished! New map available below.


This is a placeholder for the map development thread - please put input and ideas here.

The most recent version of the map, which I am currently transposing eastward to remove Mesopotamia and add the Canaries/Azores, is on page 6 of the organized development thread. The link to that is here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=249041&page=6

Input is welcome.

 

[st.lucifer]

reserved for future use.

 

[st.lucifer]

I'm transposing the map several squares to the east, and it is a tedious and time-consuming task. I'm about 1/3 of the way done, but if anyone would like to help, the current version is here. Any work that you can do (simply save, zip, and repost under a different name) is appreciated. If not, I hope to be done in about a week.

 

[onedreamer]

can't it be done by adding tiles west and cut east ? Sadly I don't know how to do this kind of stuff. But at least it seems that we are at a good point with the geographical map

 

[st.lucifer]

can't it be done by adding tiles west and cut east ? Sadly I don't know how to do this kind of stuff. But at least it seems that we are at a good point with the geographical map

I had hoped that it could, and there's probably a way to go through the code in notepad and replace x = __ with x = __, but I was worried about the effect that would have on rivers and resources. This way is tedious, but effective - and it lets me clean the map up a little and remove some of the resources along the way.

Thanks for the vote of approval.

 

[Riker]

I looked at the map, good job. I made some modifications to Italy, if you like'em you can add them to the definitive version.
Reshaped Sicily and moved the peak closer to Etna's position
Added Sheeps in Sardinia, they have many (along with goats, btw...)
Added Fish near Liguria, a big part of our economy has always been fishing)
Added the lake of Garda, bigger than the one in Switzerland but missing in the original map
Added a short river to Venice
The river Po starts in the Alps now (extended by 2 tiles)

Maybe it's now a too much stronger start, but it conpensates with the lack of space.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/41379/RFC_europe_proto-map_-_transposition.rar

 

[Rhye]

You can cut slices of the map at north and east easily with notepad - it works automatically.

You could do that instead of manually translate just to make room for Azores

 

[st.lucifer]

I looked at the map, good job. I made some modifications to Italy, if you like'em you can add them to the definitive version.
Reshaped Sicily and moved the peak closer to Etna's position
Added Sheeps in Sardinia, they have many (along with goats, btw...)
Added Fish near Liguria, a big part of our economy has always been fishing)
Added the lake of Garda, bigger than the one in Switzerland but missing in the original map
Added a short river to Venice
The river Po starts in the Alps now (extended by 2 tiles)

Maybe it's now a too much stronger start, but it conpensates with the lack of space.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/41379/RFC_europe_proto-map_-_transposition.rar

Thanks! I'll certainly look at and consider your changes.

 

[st.lucifer]

You can cut slices of the map at north and east easily with notepad - it works automatically.

You could do that instead of manually translate just to make room for Azores

Thanks! How exactly do I go about adding tiles to the west, though?

 

[Rhye]

you can't - unless you want to manually translate everything

 

[st.lucifer]

you can't - unless you want to manually translate everything

that was what i was afraid of. oh well, i'll just continue with the manual translation. i'm about halfway there.

 

[Riker]

what about Iceland? it's Europe too. Maybe it could be the last civ

 

[mitsho]

too far away, too few influence, would extort the map too much, the mod is better off without team (performance wise)

 

[Riker]

I think you're right

 

[Zipzapzup]

Well i'm not really sure about it, but the Garda sea is only 369,98 square kilometres big, the one in switzerland which is probaly the Sea of Genf (only know the german name so its translated incorrect don't be harsh) is 580.03 square kilometres big.

But the one that is really missing is the -in german its called- "Bodensee", dont know the english expression, but its the one between the borders of germany, switzerland and austria.

But the question is, shall the map be about realism or about gameplay?!?

If you think about gameplay you shold look for fitting cityplaces and then arange the resources and stuff.

For example i have got problems placing german cities on the map which are geografically on the right place and are good cities (food/resources).

 

[sdLeo]

Well i'm not really sure about it, but the Garda sea is only 369,98 square kilometres big, the one in switzerland which is probaly the Sea of Genf (only know the german name so its translated incorrect don't be harsh) is 580.03 square kilometres big.

But the one that is really missing is the -in german its called- "Bodensee", dont know the english expression, but its the one between the borders of germany, switzerland and austria.

Genfsee: Lake Geneva/Lake Leman
Bodensee: Lake Constance

 

[st.lucifer]

I managed to finish the transposition tonight. The updated map is in the first post of the thread. The following changes were made:

-Transposed entire map 12? squares east, eliminating Mesopotamia, the Caucasus region, and the Urals
-Added the Canaries, Azores, and Madiera islands
-Removed many resources from the map to make cities smaller and less powerful - in particular, those in Scandinavia, England, and the Maghrib
-Adjusted and fixed several rivers - added the Meuse, Arno, and a few others
-Incorporated some of Riker's suggestions for Italy - didn't increase the size of Sicily, but added lakes Garda and Constance
-Added locations of independent cities and probable (open to debate) starting points.

There's some other stuff in there too, but that's most of it.

Things to do:
-I plan on adding marsh tiles in for many/most of the places I currently have marked with jungle.
-I'm still looking for feedback re: resource placement, starting places, and other features that I might have missed.
-I haven't updated food/luxury resources yet. My next project is going to be learning how to do that, and changing some of that around.


On luxuries: What do people think about eliminating war elephants from the mod and just having ivory as a luxury resource? I'd change the graphic for it, or add a walrus for the Scandinavian version rather than having incongruous elephants in Norway. I can't remember elephants being used during the time frame of the mod, so is it reasonable to eliminate them?

Thoughts?

 

[Squirrelloid]

On luxuries: What do people think about eliminating war elephants from the mod and just having ivory as a luxury resource? I'd change the graphic for it, or add a walrus for the Scandinavian version rather than having incongruous elephants in Norway. I can't remember elephants being used during the time frame of the mod, so is it reasonable to eliminate them?

Thoughts?

Please do. The only notable use of elephants in war in europe was the Punic Wars, which are long since over by the time of the scenario. The only possible problem with 'walrus ivory' is determining where historically walruses might have lived. Do we know the Norse had walrus ivory?

 

[st.lucifer]

Please do. The only notable use of elephants in war in europe was the Punic Wars, which are long since over by the time of the scenario. The only possible problem with 'walrus ivory' is determining where historically walruses might have lived. Do we know the Norse had walrus ivory?

Yes, it was one of their major trade goods (along with Narwhal tusks) throughout the Medieval period, and one of the reasons for the colonization of Greenland. Most of it came from areas off the map - Svalbard, Iceland, and Greenland - but I see nothing wrong with putting one in the Orkneys and a couple in otherwise remote/barren areas of Norway and maybe Finland. I'm thinking of making some of those areas a little less city-friendly anyway, although given how the Vikings are determined to build 6 poor cities in Scandinavia in ordinary RFC, it may not make a difference...



If you want a citation for the walrus ivory, I remember it being talked about pretty extensively in Jared Diamond's 'Collapse'.



One other thing that I was looking at when making the map - I preserved the traditional treatment of Denmark as being separate from Sweden by a narrow strait - with the island that Copehagen is on being attached to the peninsula. Upon further review, it seems pretty obvious that the island in question is much closer to Sweden than to the Jutland peninsula. Should I reverse the traditional order of things for accuracy, or leave them as they are? The geographically accurate placement would be to shift the island one square east, moving the strait two tiles west. This would result in a funny-shaped Sweden and a slightly off-looking Denmark, but it would be closer to the actual state of affairs.

 

[Riker]

I've seen the map. I like it and I have a suggestion. A great chunk of the map is ocean, the sahara and forest in the east. I played a tabletop game, Age of Renaissance, where the map covered only Europe and at the borders you had proxis of the Far East and the Americas. What about putting something like that, rich of resources and available with certain techs? In this way, we'll give importance to places that now are useless, like the ocean.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/192678

as you can see, there are squares near Spain and the Black Sea, which represent oversea colonies and far east trade. Sorry, I couldn't find a better image of the board