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RFCA strategies

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by adhiraj.bose, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    I so did not see that coming:( Literally turns before i got the game...
    Spoiler :
    I didn't thought of trading Fish etc., i maybe make it so that you have to control tiles with the resources, like Carthage in RFC.
    20 turns before the end i also got the Espionage points. After all, once you've earned them you're free to spend them, because it's just the sum of all points produced, not currently held.
    Spoiler :

    And a final view of the empire:
    Spoiler :
     

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  2. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    The Korea respawn happens almost every time I conquer that territory with the Japanese, but in my game they flipped the whole peninsula. :(

    If its not too much to ask, could you do one with the MOH goal too please ( its more fun :) ) . If not, what's the best way to deal with stability ?
     
  3. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    It's more fun, but first i got to work on some fixes :)

    Stability was an issue at the point after i conquered Korea, then i whipped some stability buildings to get a little boost, and when i settled Edo shortly after, the economy growth kept me stable throughout the game and even reaching Very Stable some turns.
    When i played Vietnam and Korea, i got rid of the stability propblems by switching away from Chiefdom and Tyranny (both civics with the bloody axe in the button).
     
  4. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    By the by, I have finally managed to win the Indo-Greek (called Yavan in sanskrit :) ) and Vietnamese UHV. The trick to winning the Indo-Greek is to train an additional two workers while capturing a city on the Tarim basin and Oxus river. *( they have gems and gold )

    Besides conquering the weak Yuezhi has always been one of the things I've wanted to do as the Greeks. Apparently the hardest part of the game is actually the third UHV because of crippling stability issues. IMO the Greeks should get a larger historic zone spanning over all the indus and the whole of Punjab plus Gujarat. Then they can get a fighting chance. The second UHV is a bit luck based since sometimes you won't find the Mahabodhi or the Kashi Vishvanath built before due date. Its necessary to start training the Great Priest the moment you can.

    Keeping to history, I honestly think that Hinduism should already be spread to North Western India when the Greeks invade. I got the Vietnamese almost by a stroke of luck, just built a huge army and let the Nanzhao vassalize towards the end of the game. Now there's a glitch here I'd like to report. The Tang Dynasty auto-declares war on me once they secure the mandate of heaven. I had control of the Southern Chinese city of Guangzhou ( renamed Phien Ngung ) . The Tang armies would mass around 2 tiles from my city with infantry, spearmen and trebuchets. After two moves, the trebs and infantry would just stand there. Throughout the game they didn't attack ! ...
     
  5. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    Nice :)
    The Indo-Greeks have stability issues, and i felt damn lucky that i got my win on the last turn of a GA with i think -40 stabiliy :p Saving up GPs to trigger golden ages is the key.
    I made it so that AI Maurya trains Great Prophets from the start, so they should build the shrines until Gupta spawns.
    Maybe i'll grant a bigger stable area; Punjab yes, Gujarat no.

    I fixed the issue with the Chinese conquerers, thanks :)
     
  6. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    Gujarat... no?? :(

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom

    "To the south, the Greeks may have occupied the areas of the Sindh and Gujarat, including the strategic harbour of Barygaza (Bharuch),[85] conquests also attested by coins dating from the Indo-Greek ruler Apollodotus I and by several ancient writers (Strabo 11; Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, Chap. 41/47):[86]
    "The Greeks... took possession, not only of Patalene, but also, on the rest of the coast, of what is called the kingdom of Saraostus and Sigerdis."
    —Strabo 11.11.1[87]"
     
  7. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    I don't think it's feasible to assign territory as stable that has only been held during a conquest, without actual administration (like coins would show, i guess). In the same way that it doesn't make sense to make Russia stable for Germany. Or France.
     
  8. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Isn't most of Punjab already stable for the Indo-Greeks?
     
  9. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    At the point i made the stability maps, the Harappan core was excluded for some reason (which means Lahore and a fair part of Punjab). I'm not sure if i implemented it yet, but if i did, i propably have to update the stability maps.
     
  10. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    In the meantime, I finally cracked the Ghaznavid UHV. Now I have a kind of love-hate attitude about this UHV. I love it because it is a fast paced game and the Ghaznavids are fun to play with a nice UP. I hate it because its too mechanical and consequently too restricting. So here's what I did :

    1. Opening moves : - The Ghaznavids start out with a sizeable military and surrounded by weak opponents. This is both the case with 3000 BC and 500 BC starts. To avoid any possible bugs I was playing on a 3000 BC start. The Gokturks never conquered Samarkand or Bukhara so those two cities were independent, while Huns ravaged all of North West South Asia. Half the old Greek cities were barbarian and the one city in Sindh.

    With my starting settler, I settle Ghazni on the spot. Its a great place to settle and it grows very nicely allowing you to train a lot of artists which you'll need for the game. Owing to the Ghaznavid UP, I ran clergy (50% GP boost), feudalism, state monopoly. In my earlier efforts I'd chose nobility, which is a mistake I learnt. Your entire focus in the game is one dimensional, i.e accumulate culture, to be precise enough culture to have 15000 culture in all of your cities. The other settler I sent with a missionary and a pikeman down South to Balochistan and settle on Pasni.

    Now the really annoying aspect of the goal is, you can only afford 4 cities and no more. You'll have to chose your 4 culture monger cities carefully. The only thing you should be aiming for is a large food production and population to sustain a lot of artists. Ghazni grows, especially with the right civics. Pasni grows owing to its access to coastal resources. The other two cities should ideally be in the Indus. You can take a Central Asian city, but I would advise against it, if you're culture bombing Ghazni then these cities would disturb against it.

    Mansura was barb so I exploited my early barb victories ( I counted, you get 5 free wins ). Lahore was defended by a small force but it still cost me 2 units of my invading army to get it . All other cities are to be razed, including what is my favorite Afghan city, Alexander in Archosia/Qandahar :( . The four cities thus, were 1) Ghazni, my capital , 2) Pasni, 3) Mansura, 4) Lahore.

    2. First UHV :- While your army is out conquering the right places for culture mongering, your starting workers *( luckily I had 3 more workers flip to me ) should work quickly to hook up every possible food producing resources around Ghazni. There is a deer camp 1 East of Ghazni, flood plains to its North, a Caravan some tiles West. A spice resource and lemon resource is within Ghazni's BFC as well.

    I sent the other workers to work on the tiles around Mansura and Lahore. The caravan is very helpful in getting silk route Great Artists, hooking up Silk Route resources is a good booster. Pasni should set to work training work boats, while Ghazni and Lahore and Mansura should start working on shools ( to get the free specialist artist ) . Ghaznavid's good head start on techs make for good ground for tech trading with other civs, the faltering Gupta Empire was pleased enough, as were the Gokrturks, who traded some useful techs, like maritime trade and seafaring and education with me.

    Burma and Tibet too, traded fairly with me. Throughout the game, I didn't have to touch the culture slider but I managed to tech ahead well enough despite 50-60% science. The initial plunder from conquests lasts you for a while, but eventually you'll have to become frugal. Again, nothing really matters to the Ghaznavid UHV but culture :p .

    With Ghazni growing and training artists I had my first artists within 10 or so turns after I started, and before 1100 AD came I could churn out 3 GAs easily enough from Ghazni alone. Lahore and Mansura were the first cities I chose to culture bomb to get Lahore a good culture buffer against Delhi's large culture expanse. I got the 10000 culture goal very easily enough.

    Between 1100 AD and 1230 AD you would need another 8 Great Arists to get to 45000 culture. This is where you feel the need for 4 cities and not 3. I did manage to get 45000 culture with 5 cities once, but failed the third goal. I churned out 5 out of the 8 Great Artists from Ghazni while Lahore and Pasni made the others. Lahore was a great cultural centre throughout the game and so was Pasni and Mansura.

    By the end of goal 2, two of my four cities had over 13000 culture while two others had around 10000 each. For goal three I needed only 2 GAs to culture bomb two underdeveloped cities.

    3. The Last goal :- With a 4 city strategy, you can get the third goal almost by default if you have the first two. There are only two things to keep in mind. Firstly, the Delhi spawn, usually they don't act very aggressively on their western border. But it is still safer to keep a substantial troop presence. Being co-religionists helps in taming tensions with the Delhi Sultanate and that works to secure an early peace. The Delhi Sultanate didn't move their stacks out of Delhi oddly. The Gupta empire collapsed shortly after the Delhi spawn, they were collapsing already.

    Secondly, you'll need to keep an eye for Keshik barbarians reaving across Central Asia. Here, I found the true usefulness of not conquering the two central asian cities. They're your buffer to absorb the Keshiks. The Gokturks absorbed the rest of the Keshik barbs. Even so, training pikemen are useful enough to counter the Keshiks who come. Still, once you're in for the first two goals, the third is literally a breeze. I managed to get 3 GAs by 1300 by which time Ghazni had 18,000 culture, Mansura had 17,000 culture, Pasni had 18000, and Lahore had 18000 culture. ( approximations all ) . The Golden age helps with the third goal.

    My next effort is going to be getting a cultural victory with the Ghaznavid's UP ;) .
     
  11. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    I just played Khmer and won and then Sri Vijaya and lost despite getting the first goal. The second goal asks for "greatest resource diversity in 1200 AD" what exactly does this require ? I counted all the civs I was in contact with and the resources they had and I counted mine. I had 16 ( including silk route ) types while the max anyone else had was 13 and that was the Jurchen. I didn't have iron or ivory though.
     
  12. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    It means that every resource you have at least one of counts, and judging from the code it should work; so i really hope there are no underlying problems there with the silk route :/ Do you have a savegame?
     
  13. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    I have a savegame from 1064 AD not 1200 AD so its much before the goal should click. I'll test it again by settling near the ivory on the Kra isthmus.
     
  14. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    Khmer strategy

    In the new RFC DOC mod Khmer is frustratingly difficult and underpowered. In the old RFC game, Khmer was somewhat slow and boring. In RFCA however, the Khmer are a total delight :) . I already love its UP and when run with caste system makes Angkor a super city ! The UHV is not frustratingly difficult but not a total walkover either. So here's what I did :

    1) First settle Angkor on the spot and keep it defended. In earlier games I underestimated the elephant barbs to spawn close to my city and take over Angkor while my starting troops go about conquering nearby cities. Send an archer each with your two other settlers . One went North to settle near Vietnam and another went South to hook up with the silk road trading post. Both are good growth cities. Indrapura in Vietnam was taken by two of my elephants. At this time, thankfully no elephants harassed me .. yet. So by around 690 AD I had more or less control of the whole indo-China region and central South East Asia. The full Khmer empire IRL and then some ;) . Now on to building.

    2) I had flipped one worker whom I had set to work on building a terrace on a jungle tile near Angkor. 3 more spawned and I set them to working on Jungle as well. Now civic options to chose would be a) Hereditary rule - for keeping happy those humungous Khmer cities, b) Nobility - For the gold and extra culture, c) Caste system - Can't get those wonders or really any decent production without infinite number of engineers, d) State property - for the 25% food boost, and the espionage as a bonus. Angkor builds Baray to get the extra food. Your other cities build units. Because.. brace yourselves Elephants are coming !

    3) The first wonders you'll get are all Buddhist but Angkor doesn't have Buddhism to start with, ( this is unhistorical, I hope you'll change it and give a hindu and a buddhist missionary to Angkor or spread it there from the start :) ) so you'll have to wait for Buddhism to spread to one or other of your cities. Build a naval unit in any coastal city you control and make contact with Cholas and Sri Vijayans, that should bring the chance of Buddhism spreading easily enough. In my game Buddhism spread around 8-900 AD after I made contact with Cholas and Sri Vijayans. In the meanwhile, my army fought elephants and mauled them easily enough while I researched the techs to get the Hindu wonders. In total the UHV requires you to build 3 Hindu and 3 Buddhist wonders, ALL OF THEM IN ANGKOR !

    4) There are only 3 things you need to build in your cities, 1) Wonders, 2) Units, 3) Health and food buildings. The only deviation may be, if angkor doesn't get hinduism or buddhism a math and wat have to be built to train a missionary to go and spread it there. IN my game hinduism auto spread as Indrapura already had Hinduism. Buddhism required a wat to spread there which was built in the first buddhist city in the South ( can't remember the name :p ) . Walls are useful too, but not totally necessary. Getting standing army is useful to get the Ph'kak which has proven itself to be a useful unit in this game even though its power means nothing in terms of battle ability.

    5) Since the Hindu wonders require teching and Buddhist wonders already present from the start. The wonders to target are I) Hindu : i) Prambanan, ii) Angkor Wat, iii) Meenakshi temple. II)Buddhist wonders : i) Golden Buddha, ii) Golden Pagoda, iii) Potala palace or Borobudur. I built the Buddhist wonders first to get its bonuses, especially the Golden Buddha which is my fav wonder. You don't need to train any additional workers, just ensure that the workers don't get killed by spawning barbs. Otherwise, the 1,000,000 pop goal will never be achieved.

    6) While you're working on the wonders, you'll need to be careful not to train so many specialists that it'll slow down your growth. Angkor needs all the food it can get. Even so, you don't need to build a terrace over the two dye resources, go for plantations there. After finishing three terraces near Angkor I hooked up the iron in Vietnam to train some decent units in my cities in anticipation of barb elephants and in the long run for the Thai spawn. Later on, the salt, and thereafter, the banana in the South. This improves health in Angkor. Just keep building terraces on as many tiles near Angkor till 1050 AD to get at least 16 pop points. No other city in Asia can grow as well as Angkor owing to the Khmer UP, so no probs in becoming the largest city in Asia. It is only getting the figure of one million that is the challenge.

    7) By the time I got the population goal I had already built 4 wonders with engineers and was training a large number of specialists. I had also enough time to link all cities and hooked up most resources in South East Asia. By 1150 I had 6 wonders built with 6 Great Engineers. The key to this goal is just getting 6 Great Engineers. After the first two goals are accomplished you don't need anything else. Just keep growing Angkor, researching techs and training units. I had built a huge army by the time the Thai spawned. Enough to vassalize the Nanzhao and extinguish the Burmese.

    8) Now in my game, while the Khmer did grow amazingly fast with me building terraces on as many jungle tiles as I could, The Mongols' united China outpaced me in population for a while. The alternative then is, after you've done crushing the Thai revolt, go for Burma and conquer their cities. By the end Angkor grew up to a size 26 and I had the whole of South East Asia under my control. With that I could accomplish the third goal by 1300. At the end I was also the most technologically advanced civ in the game and I managed to research Crop Rotation which gave an additional food output on my terraces. The full food production of Angkor at the end was a monstrous 76 ! If I had kept playing it would have assumed a size of 38 with a production of over 100 hammers ! :D I even built two additional wonders there at the end.
     
  15. SanJose

    SanJose Chieftain

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    Songping good place for nonURV world wonders:Great Wall, Izumo (rush with Tyranny), also i rolled for start with 2 flipped barbarian elefant.
     
  16. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    In my game Songping was already razed :( . I had only the Southern Vietnamese city on the coast. Sometimes there would be a barb city in the South on Oc Ceo but that wasn't there either :-/ . It helps though, where should we place the 4th and 5th city if three Vietnamese cities are already there ?
     
  17. SanJose

    SanJose Chieftain

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    adhiraj.bose, i completed khmers UHV(monarch, 500AD scenario) in february, strategy may be outdated:) in SVN.
     
  18. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    Here's the save from my Sri Vijayan game. I even hooked up ivory (which I didn't have in my last try) but still UHV2 didn't click. What's missing ?
     

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  19. civ-addicted

    civ-addicted Chieftain

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    What i found is that
    1. the Göktürks (17) and the Khmer (20 :dubious:) do have more resources than you
    2. the Khmer have are trading with Byzantium via land without having a camel at all (definitly a problem which i have to look up and fix asap)
    3. with the new silk road mechanic, the uhv might not be fit anymore, because you can switch between certain resources pretty easily
     
  20. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Chieftain

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    Have you ever won a game with the Sri Vijayan ? Would it require luck here with a Gokturk collapse and Khmer collapse ? What ideas do you have for an alternative UHV for the SV ?
     

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