i would kindly ask the players, to run a bulgarian game. i lost the 2. uhv by 13 points, maybe cos i didnt built the national epic in tsarigrad. is it really an unskippable thing, or i did somting wrong. i was running with 12 cities, built all religious stuff and also round church + 3 GP. ???
I would like a conquer all of England UHV for the Danes as well. It wouldn't be stable for them, but England would be flipped in 1066 anyway, so if well planned it would only need to be held for around 10 turns.
The only issue there is that some cities in England would have to be preplaced so they could be conquered by the Danes. But tbh I think that would be a good thing anyway, as England is always a bit unrealistic imo having the Normans settle the country rather than conquering it as they did IRL.
I prefer to keep as much freedom in city placement as possible
If there are too many preplaced cities in England (or in any other civs core territory), it reduces the fun factor IMO
It's a good question though, what's too many for different civs.
In this case, London will be appear as a new preplaced city, York is already there, but I don't really want to add anything else.
On the other hand I agree that the Danish UHV should be expanded
So in overall, I think I will expand it, but won't be all of England. A couple extra provinces on the easern coast will be included
no danish nor norwegian AI settle in mercia anyway. i suggest, that move york to mercia, so they can maybe conquer it, and its gives more "fun factor" to scottish game also. imo york isnt on a good place anyway. there are some good location for that new city...
BTW norwegians: their land is far from rich, only 30 turns after plate armor, but thats too late. and hoard 50 points seems very hard, back in old days you had 2 cities to pump out berserks, now only 1. also sweeden could be solid or potential until sweedens arrive.
York makes absolutely no sense historically as part of Mercia though, it should definitely stay as part of Northumbria.
Expanding the Danish UHV to cover East Anglia and London would make sense, although I really think you should add at least one other pre-placed city since it really feels quite strange settling England as the Vikings rather than conquering it.
Expanding the Danish UHV to cover East Anglia and London would make sense, although I really think you should add at least one other pre-placed city since it really feels quite strange settling England as the Vikings rather than conquering it.
I think we shouldn't change all preplaced cities, just because a city near it is stronger. Neither should we move resources to so the preplaced cities can access them. That would ruin a part of the challenge.
- Province setup changes:
-- Novgorod: Polotsk border
-- Sweden: Jamtland potential
-- Norway: Jamtland potential, Mercia foreign, Svealand border on start, but switches to foreign after the Swedish spawn
-- Denmark: East Anglia and London border/contested on start, but switches to foreign after the English spawn
-- Scotland: Ireland, Wales border. East Anglia border on start, but switches to foreign after the English spawn
-- England: Scotland, The Isles, Ireland border/contested
-- Poland: Prussia and Livonia foreign/unstable, Pomerania potential
-- Lithuania: Prussia, Pomerania foreign/unstable. Livonia and Estonia border/contested
-- Cordoba: Tetouan border after the Moroccan spawn. Valencia historical, Aragon, Catalonia and Balears border on Aragonese spawn.
-- Spain: Aragon, Catalonia, Balears border, Navarre potential
-- Byzantium: Apulia, Calabria, Sicily, Malta border/contested on the Aragonese spawn
-- Moscow: Novgorod potential, Karelia border/contested
-- Aragon: Andalusia, La Mancha potential, Castile border
- Revised war map for Aragon, Novgorod, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Scotland, Prussia, Morocco
- New independent city: Londinium. Starts in 500 AD, size 2, 2 archers, catholic religion.
- Danish 1st UHV also needs London, East England and Northumbria provinces.
- Byzantine 2nd UHV also needs Thrace, Thessaloniki, Moesia, Macedonia, Serbia, Arberia, Epirus, Thessaly and Morea provinces
- Catalonia province won't revolt against Aragon, Scotland province won't revolt against Scotland
Wales could probably use an independent city, just so we can have England needing to conquer the other 3 kingdoms as opposed to settling. Scotland already has Edinburgh and Ireland has Dublin, but Wales is bare.
Actually, Prussia should probably be Potential for Poland (perhaps Lithuania too by extension as the commonwealth). After the Northern Crusades Poland and Lithuania ganged up on the teutonic order and Prussia became split into Royal Prussia (owned by Poland) and Duchy of Prussia (Polish Vassal).
Some other changes i would suggest:
After a certain date, Livonia & Estonia become Foreign/Unstable for Prussia, to encourage them to move West (Muscovy will probably force them out anyway)
Toulouse should probably be separated from Provence. It doesn't make sense to have them in the same province since Burgundy never went that far west. I also think Lyon and Dijon could end up in different provinces. The way Burgundy was split in the Middle Ages was France had Dijon and rest of Burgundy as a vassal while Germany/HRE had Lyon and Marseilles as part of a different vassal kingdom (Kingdom of Arles i think?)
Wales could probably use an independent city, just so we can have England needing to conquer the other 3 kingdoms as opposed to settling. Scotland already has Edinburgh and Ireland has Dublin, but Wales is bare.
If there's to be a third city in England it should be Norwich. Second largest city at the time of the Norman conquest, and historically raided and sacked by the Danes, so it fits with the Danish conquest UHV. It would be on the ruined city in East Anglia on srpt's map.
That wouldn't ruin the fun for England imo, as it is the only really good location in East Anglia, other than Cambridge 1W. So it would always be founded and, in my experience, is usually founded last just to meet the UHV criteria rather than actually being a desirable city to found immediately. I'd prefer to leave the west of England empty to give the choice to the player around where you settle.
Also I would remove Mercia from the Danish UHV, as the Danes didn't really ever settle England in the timescale of the mod, and the conquest of Cnut mainly involved sacking and burning Mercia rather than conquering anything.
So the Danish have to capture London, York and Norwich, which are all of the cities in England, in order to meet their UHV. Then when England spawns London will be razed as it is in their spawn zone, they will flip Norwich and York, and found another three or four cities for their UHV. That wouldn't affect the English in any way imo.
The other main change I would make in that area, which I think I mentioned a couple of years back, was to have Caen spawn as an independent city in around 900AD. This is because the human French player has no incentive to found Caen, and can hamstring the AI English by not doing so.
Also I would remove Mercia from the Danish UHV, as the Danes didn't really ever settle England in the timescale of the mod, and the conquest of Cnut mainly involved sacking and burning Mercia rather than conquering anything.
Umm, Danelaw? There was pretty heavy Scandinavian influence on eastern England. I believe they controlled about half of Mercia for some 40 years. Norwich sounds good though.
Also, why is East Anglia border for Scotland? Or is that just a typo?
Umm, Danelaw? There was pretty heavy Scandinavian influence on eastern England. I believe they controlled about half of Mercia for some 40 years. Norwich sounds good though.
Also, why is East Anglia border for Scotland? Or is that just a typo?
Danelaw was in the 800s before Alfred the Great. The Danes in this mod only start in 936AD, so they are more focused on Cnut, who laid waste to Mercia on a couple of occasions during his conquest. He ruled Mercia, but it wasn't as important to the Danes as East Anglia, and remained more 'English' than the eastern coastal provinces.
If we're going to have a Danish conquest and reduce the number of preplaced cities in England, it makes sense imo to have London, Norwich and York as independents to conquer, potentially with barbarian Anglo Saxons spawning in Wessex and Mercia to represent the resistance to Danish rule.
Sweden's settler map is still pretty messed up. Norway's and Aragon's still have some splotches in weird places, and Morroco still wants to settle directly on the oasis (it should probably be the tiles around it, but not the oasis itself).
That's probably best from the English point of view, but not from the Danish imo. There wasn't really any historical precedent for the Danes colonising England, so if the Danes have English provinces as part of their UHV those provinces should have a city already.
At the moment the 1st UHV involves settling Denmark and Sweden, conquering Vestfold, London and York, then dropping two settlers in Mercia and East Anglia just in time to meet the UHV, in the full knowledge those cities will flip to England within five or six turns. Personally I don't like UHVs that are fulfilled in that manner as it breaks immersion imo.
I've no problem with having just York and London in England, but if that's the case then the 1st Danish UHV should only including Northumbria and London. The Danes should be conquering England, not founding new cities.
the Danes did colonize during the Danelaw period. but I agree that goal is better as a conquest goal than a settling one.
edit: I would like to see the AI found Norwich though. I lived there in 1985. its a pretty town. it has one of those cathedrals that took so long to build that it covers the entire history of medieval architecture in one building.
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