Rhye's and Fall Civ 5 + VP?

[black213]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rhyes-catapult.657017/
Rhye will be releasing a 'barebones' Civ 5 version relatively soon!
Vox Populi with Rhye's and Fall mechanics has been a small wet dream of mine before. I wonder if it could become reality...

 

[Stalker0]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rhyes-catapult.657017/
Rhye will be releasing a 'barebones' Civ 5 version relatively soon!
Vox Populi with Rhye's and Fall mechanics has been a small wet dream of mine before. I wonder if it could become reality...

Reading the article. Important to note that this release is really just the map Rhye designed....its really not a mechanical update. Maybe later, but important to note the scope of what's being implemented so far.

 

[darkstrat]

looking forward to the civ4 rhye experience in civ5 WITH vp

 

[Valvts]

What is Rhye's and Fall?

 

[InkAxis]

Based on what I read from that thread, he said he's not planning on using any modified DLL (if I were him I definitely would, it would mean making any large changes way easier) so it will probably be compatible, in that the game won't crash, or at least it will be easier to add compatibility. But he's not designing for VP, so it's unlikely to be balanced or stable. Depending on how many changes he makes, perhaps it could be adjusted with a mod mod to be compatible, but who knows...

 

[Rhye]

Reading the article. Important to note that this release is really just the map Rhye designed....its really not a mechanical update. Maybe later, but important to note the scope of what's being implemented so far.

I would say... important to note that this is not correct. Have a look at how many files the mod contains to question about if it's just a map.

 

[Rhye]

Based on what I read from that thread, he said he's not planning on using any modified DLL (if I were him I definitely would, it would mean making any large changes way easier) so it will probably be compatible, in that the game won't crash, or at least it will be easier to add compatibility. But he's not designing for VP, so it's unlikely to be balanced or stable. Depending on how many changes he makes, perhaps it could be adjusted with a mod mod to be compatible, but who knows...

not using the DLL is a decision that should make compatibility easier, and so far even without DLL, crashes and glitches appear for apparently unknown reasons when people try to use more mods at the same time. I guess that my mod is too specific in its settings to be compatible with generic mods, and that if I want them to be used at the same time I'll have to adapt and include them in my mod rather than the other way round.
On the other hand, my final goal is not to add 100 units or redesign the basic game: I am pursuing the realisation of an accurate alternative histories simulator. From what I have seen, even if far from the complete features of Rhye's and Fall for civ4, this Catapult mod is already close to achieving this.

 

[darkstrat]

Rhye, do u plan on working extra to create compatibility between catapult and vox?

 

[Rhye]

Rhye, do u plan on working extra to create compatibility between catapult and vox?

the amount of work is already huge for thinking of extras, but can you tell what from vox in particular do everybody want?

 

[darkstrat]

cant answer for everyone, but for me, i really think its the countless little changes annd improvements made- especially the techtree rebalance and promotions. The new unit lines are also very realistic. Thr biggest is the AI though, lot better than bnw.

 

[ashendashin]

the amount of work is already huge for thinking of extras, but can you tell what from vox in particular do everybody want?

From a glance it seems Community Patch compatibility is the way to go. It handles AI and modding API while the rest of VP goes deep into gameplay, which is what you seem to be doing.

 

[Rhye]

cant answer for everyone, but for me, i really think its the countless little changes annd improvements made- especially the techtree rebalance and promotions. The new unit lines are also very realistic. Thr biggest is the AI though, lot better than bnw.

I see.
A typical example: I have revised the tree because the timeline in the mod is focused on older eras and much shorter towards the end. So it's not complatible with any other change related to tech tree, including units and buildings.

IF there is a DLL mod which contains only AI improvements, I would be glad to try it.

 

[ashendashin]

I see.
A typical example: I have revised the tree because the timeline in the mod is focused on older eras and much shorter towards the end. So it's not complatible with any other change related to tech tree, including units and buildings.

IF there is a DLL mod which contains only AI improvements, I would be glad to try it.

That's the community patch, yes. Take note of the minimal gameplay changes stated in How to Install though. Some do exist, such as early ships being able to reach visible coastal tiles past ocean.

 

[Rhye]

such as early ships being able to reach visible coastal tiles past ocean.

That's exactly what I don't want

 

[vyyt]

That's exactly what I don't want

I think this can be probably turned off somewhere - actually, now that you mention it, if such settings exist, I'll probably turn it off in my setup too.

And I hope that the Community Patch will be compatible with your mod out of the box. It would be a shame to miss the 100x better AI. Especially the military AI of the vanilla game performs poorly.

 

[InkAxis]

I'd say that the AI being actually kinda good and the balance is what makes VP so good. It means that civs like Poland/Babylon aren't OP like they were in the base game and you can choose any social policy tree, not just Tradition -> Rationalism.

So if it's somehow compatible with VP then those systems would be more balanced. Obviously it would require some tweaking, I think something that will help is CBO CP, which I think is like a barebones version of VP. Or you can disable all the features you don't want, for instance the boat thing mentioned I believe is granted by a promotion.

 

[Jiska]

This has always been a minot gripe I've had with the CP, that there are actually a lot of changes it makes to BNW gameplay. It's a little disingenuous to say that all it is is AI changes. Anyway, I think this is more what Rhye is looking for: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/artificial-unintelligence.536193/

 

[ashendashin]

I'd say that the AI being actually kinda good and the balance is what makes VP so good. It means that civs like Poland/Babylon aren't OP like they were in the base game and you can choose any social policy tree, not just Tradition -> Rationalism.

So if it's somehow compatible with VP then those systems would be more balanced. Obviously it would require some tweaking, I think something that will help is CBO, which I think is like a barebones version of VP. Or you can disable all the features you don't want, for instance the boat thing mentioned I believe is granted by a promotion.

CBO requires CP. I'd hardly call it barebones as it's literally the Balance Overhaul. I don't think the boats use a promo as @Gazebo 's direct response to JFD on the matter was along the lines of it being a necessary change for the AI that wasn't going away.

This has always been a minot gripe I've had with the CP, that there are actually a lot of changes it makes to BNW gameplay. It's a little disingenuous to say that all it is is AI changes. Anyway, I think this is more what Rhye is looking for: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/artificial-unintelligence.536193/

Artificial Unintelligence compared to the CP is outdated, to say the least. Direct gameplay changes in the CP are limited to the boats and the siege unit setup removal(and the enemy territory movement nerf to compensate maybe? Don't remember) as far as I know. Bugfixes do impact the 'balance' in some cases I think.

 

[InkAxis]

CBO requires CP. I'd hardly call it barebones as it's literally the Balance Overhaul. I don't think the boats use a promo as @Gazebo 's direct response to JFD on the matter was along the lines of it being a necessary change for the AI that wasn't going away.

Sorry, I meant the CP. I haven't really played it but as I'm aware it's like VP but without some of the changes. I don't know that much about it, I was just pointing it out as an option.

Also, I'm fairly certain that it is a promotion, that is how it works for the trireme as I've checked in game. Gazebo not wanting to remove it for AI balance purposes has nothing to do with whether or not it's a promotion. Either way doesn't really matter, it was just an offhand example.

 

[ashendashin]

Also, I'm fairly certain that it is a promotion, that is how it works for the trireme as I've checked in game. Gazebo not wanting to remove it for AI balance purposes has nothing to do with whether or not it's a promotion. Either way doesn't really matter, it was just an offhand example.

I might've mixed it up with the siege setup thing.