Rifles+artillery or Cannons+Infantry

[muxec]

For the curious: here is the save. I think that in the long term this game will be decided by space race.

 

[UncleJJ]

First, flight artillery and biology and just now hitting AL?
Usually, AL is a huge priority for me (infantry alone makes it worth beelining, it is draftable and pawns every older unit), so my production enhancers will stay active way longer than yours and I can asure you that I get AL on immortal way before you get all these techs.
Second, your typical base hammers seem low, my production cities are in the 50+ range, highly specialized.
Third, they usually have granaries and grocers (cheap, usefull buildings) and therefore, there is no real health problem with enough ressources, which go hand in hand with an expanding empire, I didn't need something inefficient as a public transport in a long time.

First, why not go for Flight before AL? Unless I was on a Pangea map I would have control of my own continent with cannons and rifles for sure. What use would infantry be in getting off the continent? Of course I have galleons and frigates but with cannons and infantry (the subject of this thread) that doesn't seem too good to me for an intercontinental invasion. Instead I ignore Economics, Corporation and AL and concentrate on getting Combustion and Flight, giving oil, destroyers and fighters. Then while building those I continue to draft rifles and research Artillery. There is nothing before mech infantry that can resist a big stack of rifles (with machineguns, grenadiers and cavalry support) and artillery (fresh built and upgraded cannons) if massed fighters soften them with airstrikes. Once the AI has researched AL I often use my espionage points (specially held in reserve for this) to steal Economics, Corp and AL, but don't waste my own beakers. That is not so much for AL itself but for access to Fascism which is needed for PS (if I don't have Pyramids) and for Mt Rushmore and for paratroops which I do build. A few infantry do get drafted and some rifles etc will be upgraded but I never build new infantry with hammers or whip they are just not worth the effort when I have so many better troops. The outcome of my battles is entirely determined by fighters and artillery and it doesn't matter what the follow up troops are. AL and infantry are a low priority for me, that's why our opinions differ so widely

Secondly, 50 base hammers is an exceptional city and occassionally I get one that good, but surely you're not claiming that all your production cities are that good It has to be a city with either very lucky tile distribution, with a good levee and watermills or some settled GE and GProphets. Or maybe Mining Inc. Or it will be a large city size 18 or more in which case there will be some serious health issues and food will be lost as soon as you research Combustion and pick up oil and coal. That food is worth hammers even if you neglect it. Answer me this question, what is the minimum base production of a city that you would consider building a factory and coal plant in? And what is the average size and base hammers in your production cities that you build factories and coal plants in. You clearly have a different approach and I'd like to understand how you think about this stage of the game

Third, I don't accept the grocer "already built" argument. Either the city is so big that it needs a grocer for health in which case you'll have 10 unhealth to deal with as soon as the factory and coal plant is built and so the grocer doesn't help. Or alternatively you built the grocer before you needed it in anticipation of the factory, in which case that is inefficient use of the city production that could probably have been building units instead. It is more efficient to build the grocer and other health buildings later using the factory and power production bonusses. In fact I often whip health buildings in using unhealthy specialists after the coal plant is built as running unhealthy specialists is a very inefficient use of food and the +75% production bonus from factory and power apply to whipping as well. Plus health resources are not available if you are at war with civ that has them or they are annoyed and won't trade with you.

 

[Dirk1302]

If the ai has infantry i'd like to have infantry myself. If not i prefer artillery/rifles over infantry/cannons. In this case cavs are the most dangerous ai units and rifles are as good as infantry against them. Grens can touch rifles but they can't touch artillery. Even better if you also have cavs though.