Rise and Fall Eurkas nerfed to 40%

[acluewithout]

... England could've milked those alliances for all their worth if she maintained her double trade route unique district...

I was really excited to play R&F with England and its trade route stacking for exactly this reason.

England's extra trade routes allows for lots of different, interesting, and unique strategies in the vanilla game. The new alliance rules, and some of the other new rules, would have opened up even more possibilities with England's extra trade routes.

I don't think England's RND would have been overpowered if it had kept the stacking in R&F - at most, England would have gone from a 'mid-tier' civ to a 'strong' (but certainly not 'top' or 'god' tier) civ.

Separately, I'm happy with the changes to science and eurekas in principle, but it's going to be hard to not over research techs / civics if eureka's are 40%. It's much easier to see visually you are 'half way' (ie 50%) than 'a bit more than half-way' (ie on 40% left).

 

[Goliht]

A brand new Mechanised Infantry in every new city not in your home continent isn't overpowered enough? Hehe. Now you want double the money as well. I want that too for Scotland.

 

[valerislysander]

We know from the Scotland stream that eurkas have been nerfed to now complete only 40% of the technology. You can get an additional +10% from a golden age pick so if you can get into a golden age it may be a good idea to hold off on your eurkas or insperations if you plan to use one of those choices.

It seems that the designers have tried to slow down the tech and civic phase as well as making expansion slower with the loyalty system making the later game perhaps more interesting when it is now.

I've been using the 8 ages of pace mods as i couldn't stand the quick tech and civ research. I'll be glad they have nerfed Tech and Civics advancement. So far I have good hope the late game will be much more interesting with the new mechanics they have added

 

[stealth_nsk]

Unlike many other yields, science is not commonly found in much quantity outside of the campus. For example: If culture where less common (I.E. taking away monuments) then players would take theaters just as seriously as campuses.

R&F halved Monument culture output for cities with loyalty less than maximum. I'd say culture output is less than science production from population.

 

[SharTeel]

R&F halved Monument culture output for cities with loyalty less than maximum. I'd say culture output is less than science production from population.

on that note, culture output is still 0.3/pop or did they change that as well?

 

[NegativeZero]

R&F halved Monument culture output for cities with loyalty less than maximum. I'd say culture output is less than science production from population.

That monument culture will still be there when you need it the most (early game). It is just a nerf toward "wide" and its many smaller cities later in the game.

 

[Shorlin]

I don't think England's RND would have been overpowered if it had kept the stacking in R&F - at most, England would have gone from a 'mid-tier' civ to a 'strong' (but certainly not 'top' or 'god' tier) civ.

Funny because imo England is the most overpowered civ in the base game by a mile

-free unit for every city conquered on another continent (especially with redcoats) gives steamroll a whole new meaning
-double trade routes of any other Civ is ridiculous and becomes absolutely bonkers with Great Zimbabwe (a guaranteed wonder even on deity)

Her other bonuses are pretty good as well.. sure there is some RNG with continents but overall I think her nerf in R&F is definitely justified.

 

[legalizefreedom]

We know from the Scotland stream that eurkas have been nerfed to now complete only 40% of the technology. You can get an additional +10% from a golden age pick so if you can get into a golden age it may be a good idea to hold off on your eurkas or insperations if you plan to use one of those choices.

I'm not clear on the wording here. Do you mean to say you still get a 50% eureka if you are in a golden age? And you "can get"? Is there an element of RNG?

 

[Uberfrog]

I'm not clear on the wording here. Do you mean to say you still get a 50% eureka if you are in a golden age? And you "can get"? Is there an element of RNG?

The extra 10% is available from the "Free Inquiry" dedication if picked during a Golden/Heroic age, as per @Giskler 's sleuthing.

 

[shyPiano]

I'm not clear on the wording here. Do you mean to say you still get a 50% eureka if you are in a golden age? And you "can get"? Is there an element of RNG?

During a Golden (or Heroic) Age, your Dedication(s) give you special bonus(es) instead of just Era Score. One of those bonuses you can pick is Free Inquiry: (Normal Age): Gain +1 Era Score each time you trigger a Eureka. +1 Era Score for constructing a building that provides Science as a base yield.
(Golden Age): Eurekas provide an additional 10% of technology costs. Commerical Hub and Harbor district's Gold adjacency bonus provides Science as well.

 

[pgm123]

Oh, I agree. Things were progressing too quickly.

That said, I'm not sure Eurekas were why things moved so quickly. The population change will matter a bit. But this change is more likely to make it so I research things with boosts instead of looking to boost instead of researching.

Campuses probably need a slight nerf, but I don't know how to do that. The only thing that makes sense is for techs to cost slightly more. But I'll see how it feels after I play R&F.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Well assuming you got all the eurkas then the change is a +20% to the amount of science/culture you need to earn. The population reduction to science (and culture?) will also slow progression. I'm 100% happy with this change!

Consider the +100% science policy bonus, I think the actual tech speed will become even faster.

Culture speed will slow down, since I haven't found a lot of mass culture boost in release yet.

 

[Magil]

on that note, culture output is still 0.3/pop or did they change that as well?

Preview streams have shown culture is still 0.3/pop. On the other hand, the preview builds don't seem to have this Eureka/Inspiration nerf.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

So, even with the eurekas dialed back to 40%, they might actually still shave off more research turns overall due to the other science nerfs? Maybe?

 

[steveg700]

Consider the +100% science policy bonus, I think the actual tech speed will become even faster.

Culture speed will slow down, since I haven't found a lot of mass culture boost in release yet.

Well, aren't they capping Rationalism and those similar policies in some way, like a population requirement or something?

If the intent is to diminish the effectiveness of spamming cookie-cutter campus cities to a science victory, the double-adjacency-bonus cards are at the top of the list of stuff that needs to be reined in. Especially with Korea in the mix now.

 

[Sagax]

Ok, so how exactly is China affected by this? It wasn’t mentioned among rebalanced civs in previews, but it’s CUA has to be changed, because this is how it’s currently worded:

Eurekas and Inspirations provide 60% of civics and technologies instead of 50%.

They’ll need to either make it “60% instead of 40%” (relative buff), or reword it to “10% more than normal” (nerf).

 

[pgm123]

Well, aren't they capping Rationalism and those similar policies in some way, like a population requirement or something?

+50% for a district in a city with 10 population
+50% for a district with 4 adjacency

So you need both to get the +100%

 

[ferretbacon]

Ok, so how exactly is China affected by this? It wasn’t mentioned among rebalanced civs in previews, but it’s CUA has to be changed, because this is how it’s currently worded:



They’ll need to either make it “60% instead of 40%” (relative buff), or reword it to “10% more than normal” (nerf).

That would be quite the buff if China stays at 60%.

 

[steveg700]

+50% for a district in a city with 10 population
+50% for a district with 4 adjacency

So you need both to get the +100%

"4 adjacency" means your adjacency bonus must be at least 4 already, or you have four districts adjacent, or something else?

 

[Uberfrog]

"4 adjacency" means your adjacency bonus must be at least 4 already, or you have four districts adjacent, or something else?

It means the total adjacency bonus for that district is at least +4.