Rites of Oghma- That's it!?

[blueparrot1966]

So I keep one of my most productive cities tied up for dozens of turns to give this a try, and on a large map I produce (drum roll)- seven new mana resources, all on the other side of the continent and not a'one even on my side of the PLANET, let alone in my territory...

I know the description says "across the world", and unlike the Genesis ritual (which was sweet ), I didn't expect a benefit only to myself. But I DID expect SOME benefit to myself.

Did I miss something, or did I just get hosed?

 

[Kael]

So I keep one of my most productive cities tied up for dozens of turns to give this a try, and on a large map I produce (drum roll)- seven new mana resources, all on the other side of the continent and not a'one even on my side of the PLANET, let alone in my territory...

I know the description says "across the world", and unlike the Genesis ritual (which was sweet ), I didn't expect a benefit only to myself. But I DID expect SOME benefit to myself.

Did I miss something, or did I just get hosed?

Yeap, its just random. Sometime you feel like a nut, sometimes you dont.

 

[Grey Fox]

How about increasing the buildspeed of the wonder the more people that are actually building it?

Could make 17 resources that arnt placed on the map, but you get a temporary building that gives one of these for each of the other civs that build the wonder, and each one increases the build speed by, let's say 5%.

 

[blueparrot1966]

That sounds nifty, but I'd bet it'd be dang hard to do. I did reload and retry just to see what'd happen, and got 8 new resources, 3 in my turf the second time around. Looks to me like the starting locations are widely variable, no pattern or predictability to it at all.

 

[MrUnderhill]

Wouldn't it be easier to have it make more mana nodes, and center them more closely around the city that builds it?

 

[blueparrot1966]

I'm sure this has been hashed out at length, but to be honest, I don't have the time to comb through all of the threads of the forum lol.

The magic system of FFH is great, absolutely great- but too much of a good thing. As a player of Civ since Civ I, and MOO and plenty of other stuff as well, I'm not one to shy away from complexity. But the sheer variety of sources of magic, and of types of spells and class and ability dependencies to cast them, is truly bewildering.

I could punch it all into Excel and make a spreadsheet out of it. I'm sure then I could build a matrix to keep it all straight- if I want THIS spell, I should play THIS civ, build THAT building to create THIS unit, then upgrade it to THE OTHER unit, and then IF I have the proper mana, THEN I can have that spell. Bleah.

Spreadsheets and fun just don't mix. I truly love what the FFH team has done in most respects. But to be frank, I'd have been happier with four or eight sorts of magic, and at most one divine spellcaster for each religion and maybe four varieties of "secular" spell caster.

 

[Quetz]

honestly i'd have to agree. I'd rather have higher levels of few paths then 16 paths or however many there are.

Not trying to critize or anything, just what I would rather see IMO

And.. Rites of Oghma should definatley be cheaper. Most rituals are really not worth the trouble :/

 

[blueparrot1966]

Actually, I think it's 20 or 24, I didn't actually count 'em up. Yeah, FFH is so great, and the effort and love poured into it so obvious, that I feel like a piker to complain about anything. But I'm betting that fawning fanboy love isn't what you guys want, so there it is.

The magic/spell system could use a good diet, and on the same subject, it's kind of bizarre having so many different buildings required to build so many different kind of units.

I'm sayin' it with love, FFH team, please don't take it the wrong way. But in a couple of cases, less really would be more...

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I'd say that the spell system is actually pretty adequate. Sure, some of the first level spells are rather generic, but every line (except dimensional) has its useful points. I think the real place that FfH could be trimmed down is in the units. Almost every unit can be upgraded into two more units, and with four main unit types and four tiers of units within those types, that's a lot of units. I haven't used all of them yet, and I doubt that many people have.

 

[Sureshot]

id say the spell system and the unit system are both great. its nice having options for spells because it means every game you can try out new things. some spells could use more functionality tho, like i changed tremor into a counter to my staged tsunami (previously i didn't use either spell because one seemed pointless and the other overpowered). as for units, when i inspect them more i find them unique and that the game would be duller without them, like immortals with their immortality, or berserkers with their collateral damage, all of them allow interesting avenues of play.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

But so many of them are almost never used. How often do you get shield walls, or even pikemen? I know pikemen have a pretty clear purpose, but they come later than macemen, and have a lower base strength. Better to just give your experienced macemen anti-horse promotions. The whole mounted line could be considered superfluous, (7 units). I know I never use Crusaders except when they're given to me for free, and even then just for garrison duty. Arquebusiers are nothing special when you have all sorts of powerful heroes to take cities regardless of defense bonuses, and siege weapons are almost as bad for the same reason. I could imagine using the archery line if I was on the losing end of a war, but that's rare enough.

I guess powerful heroes render normal units and normal unit counters obsolete. I'm not saying that's such a bad thing, but it's sad to see so much effort into the mod going unappreciated.

 

[Sureshot]

i find the AI uses all of the ones you listed, arquebusiers are vital to the AI because its the best unit they can mass produce, and they build plenty of shieldwalls and use them effectively. pikemen should really come at the same time as macemen tho, ive never built them (mainly because the mounted line is weak).

crusaders are good if you focus on religion, mostly for spiritual leaders tho (2 move units that arent melee so no shock2 against them).

so while i technically agree with you completely, i think pikemen could be improved by making them come same time as macemen, and giving the mounted line a boost, for the others, players might not use them, but players know how to keep their heroes alive, those units are very important to the ai tho

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Maybe smelting could lead to two techs, both slightly more costly than Iron Working is now, and both of those techs would be required for Mithril Working. One of these techs would give macemen, the other pikemen. I suppose I could see where Crusaders are useful, especially for Spiritual leaders, but I'd still like to see their tech moved to 150% its current beakers (which would also move those heroes further back) and have their strength be increased by a point. The fact that they aren't melee units is useful, yes, but they also have a more limited selection of promotions. Honestly, I'd like the tier-3 religious units to be a bit overpowered. 8 strength Stygians would be awesome.

 

[vyapti]

The magic system of FFH is great, absolutely great- but too much of a good thing. As a player of Civ since Civ I, and MOO and plenty of other stuff as well, I'm not one to shy away from complexity. But the sheer variety of sources of magic, and of types of spells and class and ability dependencies to cast them, is truly bewildering.

I could punch it all into Excel and make a spreadsheet out of it. I'm sure then I could build a matrix to keep it all straight- if I want THIS spell, I should play THIS civ, build THAT building to create THIS unit, then upgrade it to THE OTHER unit, and then IF I have the proper mana, THEN I can have that spell. Bleah.

I agree. The Mod's complexity is overwhelming without documentation. I've started a spreadsheet and have finished spells and promotions. Working on Units now. The Wiki documentation is amazing, though. Check it out.

Spreadsheets and fun just don't mix.

Bite your tongue!

 

[Quetz]

Hmm.. post that spreadsheet? Was thinking of making one myself for quick reference for what spell does what..