Road and Rail Discussion

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think that Railroads should cost maintenance, so that the player must setup Railroads, they'd be more beneficial but couldn't be spammed everywhere. It would make "realistic" sense (as well as have a gameplay factor) where you set up Railroad routes/trainstations.

 

[Thorburne]

The progression appears to go:

Ancient Roads
Medieval Roads (Military Engineering)
Industrial Roads (Industrialization)
Railroads (Steam Power)
Modern Roads (Combustion)

However Railroads come so close to Industrial Roads (it's the very next tech) -- and uses a different icon than all the other "route" upgrades -- that I have to wonder if there isn't something different going on there.

Maybe railroads get some sort of maintenance where roads do not, however they carry units instantly to any city they are connected to (at the cost of a turn for that unit). Instead of replacing roads, they parallel them allowing for the highways which have the fastest map movement.

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[KrikkitTwo]

Maybe railroads get some sort of maintenance where roads do not, however they carry units instantly to any city they are connected to (at the cost of a turn for that unit). Instead of replacing roads, they parallel them allowing for the highways which have the fastest map movement.

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Actually given that "Industrial roads" have a -25% movement cost..
probably

IR=-25%.. total 75% (or 33% faster movement)
RR=-25%...total 50% (or 2x faster movement) [maybe production bonus as well]
MR=-25%...total 25% (or 4x faster movement)

 

[qadams]

The progression appears to go:

Ancient Roads
Medieval Roads (Military Engineering)
Industrial Roads (Industrialization)
Railroads (Steam Power)
Modern Roads (Combustion)

However Railroads come so close to Industrial Roads (it's the very next tech) -- and uses a different icon than all the other "route" upgrades -- that I have to wonder if there isn't something different going on there.

It seems a little weird to go from Roads to Rails, and then back to Roads again, doesn't it?

 

[BrokenBokken]

It seems reasonable the rail roads might be constructed with an upgraded version of the military engineer perhaps?

 

[Loaf Warden]

It seems a little weird to go from Roads to Rails, and then back to Roads again, doesn't it?

Depends on what they do in-game. It's perfectly historical, considering the use of railroads pre-dates the invention of the automobile and modern asphalt streets. It seems as though railroads might have a different function from roads in Civ VI, so it could be there's a reason for them to coexist and for roads to keep upgrading even after railroads are in place.

 

[Thorburne]

Depends on what they do in-game. It's perfectly historical, considering the use of railroads pre-dates the invention of the automobile and modern asphalt streets. It seems as though railroads might have a different function from roads in Civ VI, so it could be there's a reason for them to coexist and for roads to keep upgrading even after railroads are in place.

Yeah... the reason that I stated above (and quoted below). I think that it would make perfect sense...

Maybe railroads get some sort of maintenance where roads do not, however they carry units instantly to any city they are connected to (at the cost of a turn for that unit). Instead of replacing roads, they parallel them allowing for the highways which have the fastest map movement.

 

[Miravlix]

Trade roads could upgrade to railroads, where engineer roads stay roads.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The progression appears to go:

Ancient Roads
Medieval Roads (Military Engineering)
Industrial Roads (Industrialization)
Railroads (Steam Power)
Modern Roads (Combustion)

However Railroads come so close to Industrial Roads (it's the very next tech) -- and uses a different icon than all the other "route" upgrades -- that I have to wonder if there isn't something different going on there.

7

OMG the Civ Designers actually got a technological progression right for a change!!!

I am stunned. Stunned and Appalled. I expected the Spanish Inquisition, but not this...

Now, of course, it remains to be seen if they have examined all the ramifications of this...

First, if Industrial Roads and Railroads come close together, than they are probably equating the Industrial Roads with the grading and paving system developed by MacAdam at the beginning of the 19th century, only a couple of decades before the first railroads. But, since that was a rock/gravel paving instead of a 'tarmac' ("asphalt") surface, Roman Legions or Roman Engineers should be able to build them a couple thousand years earlier - the Roman rock and graded roads were very similar...
And, realistically, they would be the first roads that would give a real 'speed boost' because they are the first roads that eliminate the majority of delays due to weather, mud, etc. in travel.
They, like railroads and the 'modern' (concrete?) roads would require a maintenance cost, but their cost is low compared to the railroad and modern concrete interstate/autobahn-type roads' maintenance cost.

But, there is a real difference between Industrial Roads and Railroads - not that Civ games have ever gotten it right before, but the railroad is an Order of Magnitude more efficient at moving Industrial Quantities of goods - resources or trade - long distances. Just as an example, even on a well-made MacAdam road, your animal-drawn wagon can still only transport about 2 - 3 tons at 20 miles a day. You can put a lot of wagons on the road, but the goods are still moving at 20 miles a day. Even a primitive, early 19th century railroad can move 100 tons at 20 miles An Hour. The 'classic' railroad of the industrial late 19th century could move, per train, several thousand tons at 30 - 50 miles an hour, and move 10 - 30 trains a day over a given set of tracks. Only the modern high-speed multi-lane highway with tractor-trailers can come even close to matching the capacity and speed of the railroad.

So, hopefully, there will be some 'extra' effects from Railroads and late Modern Roads compared to Everything that comes before: more Gold from trade routes certainly, but also (ideally) a great increase to the speed with which city boundaries and borders grow - when you can commute to the city in minutes instead of days, the city tends to spread out, as a glance at the growth of land area covered by New York, London, Paris, and similar cities in the late 19th - early 20th centuries' shows.

At least they seem to have the basic depiction in the game for the possible realistic and gamingly interesting effects...

 

[E_T]

In the past, Roads were subplanted by Rails, due to both general speed as well as bonuses to improvements, causing the map to be covered with the, sometimes ugly, Railroads. But if roads are not as widespread as before as well as, historically, Rails are even less prevelant, but still more useful for trade and growth, I think that they are going to be even more sparce in 6 than roads will be...

 

[qadams]

As a side note, it's amusing that this thread — with my OP a simple query on where to find the most recent build — has morphed into a fascinating and useful discussion of Civ 6 roads.

 

[V. Soma]

Oh, I guess it is my fault that this thread took an other path (road )

 

[JimmyBanks]

Really V. Soma, did you railroad this thread?

 

[Mustakrakish]

But there's not much to talk about lately, so who cares if a thread gets a little... derailed

 

[JimmyBanks]

According to my YouTube esearch this is the latest video:

Spoiler :

https://youtu.be/Gheo3F6XBRg

And it has nothing new in it.

 

[Martinus]

Their reaction when they realise they have revealed all leaders is so cute. I feel sorry for them, it's a classic face-palm moment.

 

[shaglio]

Here's my totally unsolicited opinion on how roads/railroads work:

ROADS

Trader units automatically build Ancient Roads between the departing and destination cities (this we already know).

At Military Engineering, Ancient Roads upgrade to Medieval Roads, and Military Engineers can manually build roads wherever you want. All current and future roads will have bridges built over rivers (similar to Engineering in Civ 5)

At Industrialization, all roads upgrade to Industrial Roads providing a movement bonus; At the Combustion tech, all roads upgrade to Modern Roads providing further movement bonus. (both are similar to Machinery in Civ 5).

RAILROADS

This is where I'm indecisive in my opinion:

A) (which I consider less likely) At Steam Power, Military Engineers can build Railroads, but they require maintenance so that they can't be spammed across the map

B) (which I consider more likely) At Steam Power, all newly established Trade Routes will build railroads between the departing and destination cities.

 

[Lucius_]

It seems a little weird to go from Roads to Rails, and then back to Roads again, doesn't it?

I thought that as well, but then I thought about how I built roads/rails in CiV. Due to the increased cost, I would only connect my production cities to the capital with railroads, leaving my other roads as is, and sacrificing the increased movement speed, usually to the farthest reaches of my empire, where I could use that increased speed for units the most. Railroads and modern roads may be an optional thing, for a cost you can have increased speed and production OR for no cost, but a later tech, you can have the increased speed without the production bonus. In other words, perhaps modern roads are not meant to replace railroads.

 

[Polobo]

There's no such thing as unfinished trade route. It's just unfinished road. And yes, those parts of it which were built should function as the road.

With the increased focus on barbs it would be interesting if various trade route bonuses and rewards required that the trader at least make it to the target city and back at least once.

 

[Thorburne]

With the increased focus on barbs it would be interesting if various trade route bonuses and rewards required that the trader at least make it to the target city and back at least once.

I don't know... I think, when put into perspective, when you send out a trader, they are making the trip and back immediately. The units are just representations. After all, one trek wouldn't be enough to beat a path. But multiple, heavily used treks would certainly make a rudimentary road. After all... A turn, especially in early game, is years

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