Role Play Challenge: Return of the Great Khan, An open RPC game

[madscientist]

The power of the Keshiks is how fast they can move and taking advantage of the UB and setteld GGs. AT first you want alot of 9XP keshiks (1 GG, Ger, Barracks) so in combat they get promoted easily, boosted by GKs Imperialistic trait (and GW in defensive). With a few settled GGs and theocracy and vassalage you get maybe 13-15 XP which are quickly promoted. Eventually you can pump out 4 promotion Keshiks.

SO alot of Combat II, shock mounted units immune to terrain! Bypass the big border cities and attack the rear defended ones fast (they are usually have token archers, even a spear is not big deal). Use those aggressive swords/axes/cat stack to take out the big cities.

It is easy to get combat II, shock keshiks out of the gate, then pickup combat III.

Spoiler :

Regading the map. GK is well situated where he can cut off the northern penninsula from Ramses and the western one from Pacal. No significant AI cities will pop up in the south too fast and barbs are no an issue (GW). That leaves a clear eastern border to campaign. Myself, I took out Thebes from Ramses in both my games as it had wonders (Got teh SoZ the second time).

So defensive cities on two fronts, leaving the capital to military spam.

 

[madscientist]

Quick rules thing, if I give another AI peace after taking his capitol, can I keep his NEW capitol once I take it?

Heh, a bit of a loophole, I know. I am not going to do it, just wanted to point it out.

Oh, and whats the rule on Barb cities? They dont have a capitol, and I have one south of me.

NO! The KHAN does not like loopholes.

Spoiler :

In fact I razed Washington because it was NOT GW's capital at the time.

 

[madscientist]

I think I'm doing well enough to win anyway (you can get an idea by my 1000AD save), but the city razing is so frustrating . I like both Khans, though I prefer KK. The GG's are a nice touch too though so I may rethink that. I'm making some nasty keshiks by settling them.

I hate knights when I play this way. With a passion. They never withdraw. I usually skip them in my all-mounted games, or use them minimally (exceptions: arabia and byzantines). Curies @ mil tradition and gunpowder are also more compatible with the lib path, as are cavalry. In my eyes keshiks can cover for a long time as they're extremely versatile, so I like extending their use because I can get away with bum rush horse archers into the 1000's AD...only with mongolia (ok, or maybe with a lot of civs ). It's easiest with Mongolia though. Keshiks = prats IMO, you just have to play slightly differently to see it.

Now, if I can settle enough land where I'm pushing domination, then razing won't feel so bad anymore. In fact, I'll relish it . If all goes well cavalry will be the best unit I ever make.

I dunno, I am punching out combat II, shock knights every two turns from teh capital. They seam OK to me!!!!

 

[Bleys]

Care to elaborate? I have no experience using keshiks (or HAs) that late into the game, and the idea of going up against spears with nothing but horses seems like suicide to me. I only used them defensively in this game - I just didn't have the confidence to go for an all-out offensive war with them. So I'd appreciate any tips you might give regarding their use in that way. My initial guess would be that you promote half C1/shock/c2 and half flanking1/fl2/c1.

With a Ger, and a couple GGs, Keshiks can come out pretty nasty right away. Its the flanking that makes them strong IMHO. I plan to use a pack of them to soften up these PRO leaders I am surrounded with.

Positional Spoiler:

Spoiler :

So Shaka with his Spear UU to the near east, Pacal with his Spear UU to the near West, Wang to the North, Sal and Sitting Bull just beyond Shaka . . . Ramesses was the only "easy" target in our immediate area!

I guess I have to go after Sal and SB now, after I put Ramesses out for good.

 

[madscientist]

With a Ger, and a couple GGs, Keshiks can come out pretty nasty right away. Its the flanking that makes them strong IMHO. I plan to use a pack of them to soften up these PRO leaders I am surrounded with.

Positional Spoiler:

Spoiler :

So Shaka with his Spear UU to the near east, Pacal with his Spear UU to the near West, Wang to the North, Sal and Sitting Bull just beyond Shaka . . . Ramesses was the only "easy" target in our immediate area!

I guess I have to go after Sal and SB now, after I put Ramesses out for good.

Spoiler :

Reply to spoiler. I agree, GK has land but tough neighbors. Shaka did not utilize hills so he was actually attackable as agressive axes nerfed Shaka's IMPI.

Ramses with war chariots the easiest to beat. That's just plain funny. I agree with you, but funny nevertheless.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Quick rules thing, if I give another AI peace after taking his capitol, can I keep his NEW capitol once I take it?

Heh, a bit of a loophole, I know. I am not going to do it, just wanted to point it out.

Oh, and whats the rule on Barb cities? They dont have a capitol, and I have one south of me.

I'd say no, or else I'd have taken about 13 "capitols" by now .

Edit: I kept a barb city. The rules specifically say no AI cities, not that you must razz every non-capitol city you take. I was frustrated enough already.

 

[madscientist]

BArb cities are OK to keep. They fit in well view Gk's um, er "VIEW" on life!

 

[Bleys]

I'd say no, or else I'd have taken about 13 "capitols" by now .

Edit: I kept a barb city. The rules specifically say no AI cities, not that you must razz every non-capitol city you take. I was frustrated enough already.

Spoiler :

In my case, I took Thebes, and razed 2 of Egypts other cities, leaving him with 1. Then, since I had just traded for Alphabet, I gave Ramesses peace for Meditation and Priesthood, after having just hooked up the Marble, and built the Oracle, LOL. So Ramesses had a new "Capitol" for quite a pile of turns. I finally got sick of his cultural pressure on Thebes though, so I just razed him out. Someone else will re-settle those spots, but now I have the cultural edge.

As for the Barbs, Pacal beat me to one of their cities, and I razed another really really crappy one, just for the cash and XP for the 2 Keshiks I sent roaming the tundra.

 

[Diamondeye]

@Madscientist

Spoiler :

I warred Shaka and even captured capi (and 2 other cities!), but then he wouldn't stop the war and my Keshik were slaughtered (GG Impi), and so did my axes. Including the 6 I got from Greed Quest. Then England pops in from west. And Ramesses from north (I DoWed him, attacked with 4 Keshik, and got slaughtered by 2 lvl 2 archers at good odds all 4 ). Then everyone attacked me because I had not yet adopted a religion.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

@Madscientist

Spoiler :

I warred Shaka and even captured capi (and 2 other cities!), but then he wouldn't stop the war and my Keshik were slaughtered (GG Impi), and so did my axes. Including the 6 I got from Greed Quest. Then England pops in from west. And Ramesses from north (I DoWed him, attacked with 4 Keshik, and got slaughtered by 2 lvl 2 archers at good odds all 4 ). Then everyone attacked me because I had not yet adopted a religion.

Spoiler :

If you're playing with a horse-based UU and it's a chariot, and you're near shaka, he dies instantly to chariot rush before he hooks up bronze. If it's a HA UU or later and you have copper, you axe rush his ass before he can turn into a problem. If you don't have any means to pwn him with axes, play nice for a bit and go after someone else, maybe with the odd wall on his borders .

 

[Bleys]

I think I am doing pretty well, attaching my 235 AD save for anyone interested in finishing up a game with a decent start. Its at Epic speed.

Spoiler :

OK, went for Ramesses as I mentioned in my last update. Took Thebes and razed a couple other cities, and during the war, I managed to trade HC for Alphabet. So I gave Ram peace for Med and Priesthood, which was perfect because I had just hooked up the Marble and no one has built the Oracle. So I did. Guess what tech I took?


Not CoL (Confu was gone).


Not MC.


Not Monarchy.



Crazy as this sounds, I took THEOLOGY!! Three reasons for this choice, even though those other three were all available, and may well have been better.

First reason is I didnt have a religion yet, and I wasnt sure I would ever get a Shrined City early. Saladin (Hindu) was already pretty well trenched in, Isabella isnt even on my radar yet (Buddhism and Judaism), and Ragnar likely didnt found Confu in his capitol. So I took Christianity, and got my 2nd city with the Gold, Copper, and a couple Floods as a Holy City.

2nd reason is actually the main one. Theocracy. Barrack + Ger + a settled GG = nice Keshiks, but add Theocracy on there, especially this early, and BAM! I should have a stack of pretty strong troops very very soon.

3rd reason is the AP. I just didnt want to mess with it, so I am going to build it, and keep the hammer bonus for myself. I spread a single Missionary to Pacal, who didnt have a religion, and has my Western back, leaving me free to focus North (Wang, Rags, Gandhi, Washington) and East (Sitting Bull, Saladin, not sure who else).

I also teched Aesthetics and Lit, and I am building the GL now, Marble and stone is nice, especially with Keshiks for 2-pop overflows, and we have SO MANY FORESTS! I am also trying for the SoZ now, so I dont have to worry about it killing me later (I have Ivory in the Marble city).

Anyway, after his 10 turns of peace, I just went and wiped Ramesses off the map, so thats 2 down. I took a break while I built an army, and also settled the 3-gem city North of the Marble.

So its 235 AD, I am first in points, and first in Power (from what I can see). Espionage is hard in a game like this, I settled my first GSpy, and will likely build a Scotland Yard with the next. My tech rate is reasonable, but I may be running out of trades. I already saw a WFYABTA. Thats ok though, since my plan is to take some techs by force if I can, at least until my own teching can keep pace. I have am in HR, and building the GL, and have some nice cities for strong vertical growth. I am planning to pound out a pack of killer Keshiks (I have 6 or 7 now, including a GG attached to one), but havent decided on my next target. I am thinking Wang, but Ragnar and Gandhi are both also candidates, since Pacal can cover my Southern border if I whack them. Sal and SB are going to have to wait, but they will be on the list once I get my K's some more promotions. Building the HE in Thebes, it has Iron, nice hills, and clams for food, along with a river for farms to work the mines. Shaka's cap is also building a Wonder (SoZ), which should keep the cultural pressure off me from Sal and SB in that direction.

Fun game. I am sorry about the lack of screenies again, I will try to take more. Heres the current look at the Culture borders. Dont mind that area in the SE where SB borders me, he just got that city down, it will never penetrate my area.

 

[Bleys]

OK another RPC question . . . what about cities I culture-flip?

I say BURN!!! BURN EM ALL!!

I think I should take a break, and play some turns on the Charlemenge LHC, eh, nice and peaceful Space-Race lookin game, after I wax Toku that is, he really must die on any map he shows his face.

 

[Diamondeye]

@TMIT: Yeah. But I even had 6 axes from Greed event, and Shaka wouldn't sue or peace when I had taken 3-4 cities inc capi. Then attacks started rolling onto me from every side. I think the main reason is that I'm used to Large-Standard/Epic-Normal. Huge/Marathon was too much or me.

 

[IagoAlberto]

I'm giving this one a go, I've always wanted to give the mongols a go but never got around to it so this seems like a good opportunity.

up to 800 B.C.

Spoiler :

No screenshots and a quick summary. Settle in place, explore and pop a couple of huts for some gold and a map. Research went Agriculture/mining/bronze working/animal husbandry/masonry/pottery/writing/horseback riding(partial). I settle a second city city SE of Karakorum on a river, immeadiately SW of the horses as it turns out, what good luck! Shaka and Ramses are spotted early and Shaka must die due to his proximity and the fact that the mighty Khan needs no competition for meanest war monger around! I axe rush Shaka with 8 axes, 1 spear and 2 chariots, take the capital first and raze 2 other cities shortly thereafter finishing him off by around 1800 B.C. (i think?).

I complete the great wall shortly thereafter, having started it in the capital during the war with Shaka, once victory was inevitable and no more reinforcements were needed. After that I built some more units and unified the Mongol people by capturing several barbarian cities. I also settled one more city nw of Ulundi grabbing the two gold and bronze. I then grabbed the Pyramids with some aggressive chopping and its about 800 b.c. My tech rate is now in the tank with 6 cities although I may found one more before my next war to the south to grab furs and dear as well as block sitting bull.

In terms of the big picture I've met the world, Saladin & Isabella are due east having formed a buddhist bloc. Sitting bull is SE with no religion and an obviously lousy tech pace, having over expanded. To the north and the west are Pacal, Liz Gandhi and Rameses who are now all part of a jewish bloc, with Gandhi founding it. Ragnar is up there too with Wang and washington who are the only hindus. I am hoping Ragnar goes hindu and I get buddhism at which point I will hit the jewish bloc and eliminate it. Comments, questions, praise, criticism and witicisms all welcome

 

[Bleys]

I think the main reason is that I'm used to Large-Standard/Epic-Normal. Huge/Marathon was too much or me.

Grab that save I posted D, its solid, only 2 AIs dead, so there are a LOT of choices for who to kill, where to settle, what plan to take. I have played to 1000 AD, and I am afraid I may have waited too long to go after more AIs. I wont say any more til I do an update, but I still have a strong position, its mostly the RPC conditions that are kickin my ass, LOL, never realized how harsh it is to raze so many cities, the AIs seem to SWARM in with settlers before you can say "BOO". I swear every AI has a couple settlers just sitting around going "Waitin on Genghis to burn another city down", heh.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Grab that save I posted D, its solid, only 2 AIs dead, so there are a LOT of choices for who to kill, where to settle, what plan to take. I have played to 1000 AD, and I am afraid I may have waited too long to go after more AIs. I wont say any more til I do an update, but I still have a strong position, its mostly the RPC conditions that are kickin my ass, LOL, never realized how harsh it is to raze so many cities, the AIs seem to SWARM in with settlers before you can say "BOO". I swear every AI has a couple settlers just sitting around going "Waitin on Genghis to burn another city down", heh.

The AI very often does have leftover settlers. It will try to expand and cities will get taken so they will just fortify them. The instant they see land to settle, they settle it. Of course one alternative is to raze that new city too, but it's a major pain to be sure. Bonuses or not, one of my better production cities making nothing but settlers isn't fast enough, and that's a problem.

 

[TimeTrumpet]

Hi all, just like to say this is my first post (I've been a civ fan for a while, started coming here for tips and have been following some of the ALC games too).

Anyway, this RPC game looked like fun so I thought I'd give it a whirl

Now, let's see how you do this 'spoiler' thingy...

Spoiler :

Huzzah! It works.

Back to the game; I'll post my progress later but just thought I'd say hey for now.

 

[Bleys]

Wow I am hooked on this game to the point that I am not even playing my own series, LOL.

No real report, just grinding, sending settlers with my conquering stacks, and re-settling them LOL, it works like a dream, no unrest, fsat growth because the AI loves farms, every tile improved, no "we long for our Motherland". Only sucky part is no granary/courthouses. They usually survive the sacking. I cant wait for SP and US, I gotta tell ya.

 

[huerfanista]

I decided to abandon my previous attempt at this to try a different approach - I think I just waited too long to start my conquest and was losing ground tech-wise.

2nd attempt:

Spoiler :

Basically played the same start - taking out Shaka with an early axe rush, building GW, Oracle, Mids. However, this time I took HBR from the oracle (instead of MC) -- I wanted to try warring with early keshiks instead of just playing defense with them. I also build the Shwedagon Paya for access to the religious techs (I wanted to run theo). I teched to CoL and founded Confu, spread it to Pacal and Liz, and built the shrine with my first GP. I didn't get the spy from the GW, so my espionage was hurting a bit. I focused my EP on 3-4 AI's: Joao (tech leader), Bull/Rameses/Sal (neighbors). I built stables in my top prod cities and prepared to decalre on Rameses... but it was not to be! Bull DoWed me out of the blue (well, I was giving him my best Middle Finger Diplomacy (tm) ). So again I was stuck using the keshiks for defense -- not that that didn't work out just fine. He had the bad timing to attack shortly after I had finished construction and was building cats. After fending off his early attacks, I took 2 of his cities and got peace + .

I popped a GE and used him to bulb MC, took a detour to Aesth for the SP, then teched machinery/CS/lit (built GL)/eng/guilds. Once I had maces and trebs, I took 3 more of Bull's cities, including his capital. Then I made what is the key move of the game so far: I bee-lined for Mecca, the Hindu holy city, before Sal got to camel archers. The shrine was pulling in 52 GPT (it's the most widely spread religion in the game). This immediately took me from losing 19 GPT at 40% to making a small profit at 70%. This powered me to an easy Lib win, taking Nat. Over the course of 3 additional wars I chewed Sal down to a single city tucked up between Rameses and Washington.

So I'm up to about 1340, I have twice the land of my nearest competitor and a 600 point lead in score. I have the highest power rating (Washington is second), and am the tech leader (over Joao). I have 5 GGs in 5 different cities, and am running Rep/Bureau/Slavery/Trib(?)/Theo, for 9xp maces/trebs/pikes/lbows and 11xp cuirassiers. I took MilTrad and gunpowder and am pumping out cuirassiers and trebs (to upgrade to cannon), I finished chem and am currently teching steel. I traded for banking and PP, so after steel my plan is to go RP/rifling/const/democ/steam/assembly. I'm debating whether to finish off Bull first (he's out of the game in every way, but his cultural pressure is preventing a couple of my - or rather his former - cities from developing fully, or going after Rameses. Once I get steel, I'll do a mass upgrade (I already have 1500 stockpiled) of my trebs, and try to knock out Rameses and Washington (my strongest rival) with a cuir/cannon blitz. Stay tuned.

 

[Bleys]

I wont spoiler this, since its not "map specific" info or even revealing in any way, but I have been dominating this game, and I attribute it to taking Theology off the Oracle and building the AP, while swapping to Theocracy for the entire rest of the game so far. Incredibly strong technique, the extra hammers are great for military production, the extra XP on top of troops that are already super strong out of the box . . . I misplayed my advantage to be honest, and delayed some wars too long because I had a "numbers superiority complex" from more "normal" games, where I like to have more troops because most arent so well promoted. If there is one thing this game has taught me VERY well its the power of Veteran troops.