RR13 - Hearts and Minds
- Thread starter r_rolo1
- Start date
Looks good. No need to stop the Brennus war yet, he went from 0.9 to 1.3 power during last TS, so he's not much of a threat anymore. He'll give up Chartres in a peace deal, but we should indeed at least get Snaketown first. Not sure about war with Zara yet, we might wait a bit more for a second front to open? It is an option though.
I'm slightly worried as to how to reach France culturally, as the cities are not positioned very well for that. Bit of the same problem as with Shaka. Is there a way to generate some great artists maybe for some tactical culture bombing? Unfortunately we can only hire 2 artists in GP farm.
I'm slightly worried as to how to reach France culturally, as the cities are not positioned very well for that. Bit of the same problem as with Shaka. Is there a way to generate some great artists maybe for some tactical culture bombing? Unfortunately we can only hire 2 artists in GP farm.
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Once we get some tiles from Shaka, we have a settler waiting to commando settle towards him. We actually could now, but I like the spot a bit closer to 2 cities that is marked. We just need to run some spy missions on him.
Yep, looks like we won't really make headway with DG until we take more Celtic cities. We should not have to take everything though and may never have to deal much with DG.
Yep, looks like we won't really make headway with DG until we take more Celtic cities. We should not have to take everything though and may never have to deal much with DG.
r_rolo1
King of myself
No, no Snaketown in peace deal. First, the city might flip to us easily and second, it is the only city of the AP religion that brennus has ... and i would like to try to get more cities out of him via AP. I would not peace out before we could get something like vermalion.
Good job on the war management, but I'm somewhat miffed by the espionage departement. First we have less spies than in last set end, second I see that we are still running missions in Camulodunum. Camulodunum has alredy done it's main job, that was opening spy missions in Vienne and getting it to have a majority of our culture is a moot point until we can reach it .
I'm also puzzled by the tech path choice. We should had teched AL FIRST, given the risk of war, and even if the war was not against us infantries + factories would give us a edge to deal with the easterns. Sushi is weak in this map and did not deserved a detour IMHO , atleast before AL.
On the issue of getting to the French : I played the map from the last save using a diferent aproach ( AL->Astro->Sci Met->Physics->Electricity->Radio->Rocketry ( guided missiles ... very useful to clean out the last unit of city without entering in it ) with Combustion, Medicine and Industrialism stolen from the AI and with spread culture missions in vermalion and Shangian to open more cities to attack brennus ) just to test various aproaches to the culture spread to get to the cores of those civs harder to reach. Here are my sugestions:
For the French:
I'm basically suggesting that we forget the attack via Chartes and Numidian, that are awfully placed for that and to use the high culture on Brennus core to our advantage. This is not the most consevative strategy in terms of EP, but it definitely saves time, since we have to run less missions to get the culture to the next city. The real problematic spots are spreading from Ica , that has little culture compared with ienne and the celtic cap.
BTW this implies to not make more missions in a city after it served it's job to bridge to the next, except if those cities are possible to clear of garrisons. This is to save time.
To the Mayan:
In here I'm suggesting to use Adulis as a bridge to the core of Shaka teritory, instead of going tthrough the flip city spot ( in my test game I managed to get to the mayan northern core city before the culture in the tile in question got 40% of our culture, so, I'm quite skeptical of the prospects of trying that way ) I also marked the mayan northern city because it will become, due to the culture spreaded from Adulis, a good place to get some freebies from Pacal, not mentioning being another attack point to the Shaka and Zara cores.
Going back to next set:
- Get AL . Yesterday if possible
- Watch for the movement of the Brennus stack in the west ( currently in Isca ... 40ishs units in tech parity are not to shun out ). if the stack moves to our direction, avoid to attack them unless in a favourable enviroment and do not be the defender ( since our army is not a defesnive army and will not be in defesnive positions ). We want to maximixe war success score in here to get the best deal out ofthe war with Brennus, and I would preper to not get out of the war with less than vermalion.
- EP missions in Shangian and Vermalion to open those for attack.
- Besides that, missions in Vienne and Adulis. Note that Vienne has a huge culture, so it might be wise to wait for the 50% discount there and in the Celtic cap to not drain the EP pool completely ( expect 1000ish EP per mission there ). Do not waste time in any of those cities after the bridge effects are completed unless there is a realistical prospect to clean garrisons out of it in the short run ... and obviously try to not get the cities flipped before they can bridge to others ( that can definitely happen with Adulis )
- techwise: after AL, to Radio then Rocketry, Fission, Flight ... that will take a while, but we need to grab Eifell and to have nukes ( guided missiles are also OK )
- mess with the other civs religions and civics. You can get more easily OB with Zara by getting his religion to confu via espionage than with running similar civics
Also, remember that is easier for us to cope with emancipation anger by switching people out of emancipation than by any other means ...
- The moment SB drops being a vassal of Zara ( easier if one of them gets confu
) , Dow him. It is time for him to die and the sooner the better.
- Try to get more cities via AP , in spite that being hard with brennus in war with us :/
Good job on the war management, but I'm somewhat miffed by the espionage departement. First we have less spies than in last set end, second I see that we are still running missions in Camulodunum. Camulodunum has alredy done it's main job, that was opening spy missions in Vienne and getting it to have a majority of our culture is a moot point until we can reach it .
I'm also puzzled by the tech path choice. We should had teched AL FIRST, given the risk of war, and even if the war was not against us infantries + factories would give us a edge to deal with the easterns. Sushi is weak in this map and did not deserved a detour IMHO , atleast before AL.
On the issue of getting to the French : I played the map from the last save using a diferent aproach ( AL->Astro->Sci Met->Physics->Electricity->Radio->Rocketry ( guided missiles ... very useful to clean out the last unit of city without entering in it ) with Combustion, Medicine and Industrialism stolen from the AI and with spread culture missions in vermalion and Shangian to open more cities to attack brennus ) just to test various aproaches to the culture spread to get to the cores of those civs harder to reach. Here are my sugestions:
For the French:
Spoiler :
I'm basically suggesting that we forget the attack via Chartes and Numidian, that are awfully placed for that and to use the high culture on Brennus core to our advantage. This is not the most consevative strategy in terms of EP, but it definitely saves time, since we have to run less missions to get the culture to the next city. The real problematic spots are spreading from Ica , that has little culture compared with ienne and the celtic cap.
BTW this implies to not make more missions in a city after it served it's job to bridge to the next, except if those cities are possible to clear of garrisons. This is to save time.
To the Mayan:
Spoiler :
In here I'm suggesting to use Adulis as a bridge to the core of Shaka teritory, instead of going tthrough the flip city spot ( in my test game I managed to get to the mayan northern core city before the culture in the tile in question got 40% of our culture, so, I'm quite skeptical of the prospects of trying that way ) I also marked the mayan northern city because it will become, due to the culture spreaded from Adulis, a good place to get some freebies from Pacal, not mentioning being another attack point to the Shaka and Zara cores.
Going back to next set:
- Get AL . Yesterday if possible
- Watch for the movement of the Brennus stack in the west ( currently in Isca ... 40ishs units in tech parity are not to shun out ). if the stack moves to our direction, avoid to attack them unless in a favourable enviroment and do not be the defender ( since our army is not a defesnive army and will not be in defesnive positions ). We want to maximixe war success score in here to get the best deal out ofthe war with Brennus, and I would preper to not get out of the war with less than vermalion.
- EP missions in Shangian and Vermalion to open those for attack.
- Besides that, missions in Vienne and Adulis. Note that Vienne has a huge culture, so it might be wise to wait for the 50% discount there and in the Celtic cap to not drain the EP pool completely ( expect 1000ish EP per mission there ). Do not waste time in any of those cities after the bridge effects are completed unless there is a realistical prospect to clean garrisons out of it in the short run ... and obviously try to not get the cities flipped before they can bridge to others ( that can definitely happen with Adulis )
- techwise: after AL, to Radio then Rocketry, Fission, Flight ... that will take a while, but we need to grab Eifell and to have nukes ( guided missiles are also OK )
- mess with the other civs religions and civics. You can get more easily OB with Zara by getting his religion to confu via espionage than with running similar civics
Also, remember that is easier for us to cope with emancipation anger by switching people out of emancipation than by any other means ...- The moment SB drops being a vassal of Zara ( easier if one of them gets confu
) , Dow him. It is time for him to die and the sooner the better.- Try to get more cities via AP , in spite that being hard with brennus in war with us :/
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- Aug 15, 2001
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To late for some of my set. I've already played some, and will continue tomorrow.
We are working toward AL then Radio. I already saw the same path for tech.
Spies will arrive in Vienne shortly. We've got to be close.
Details tomorrow when I finish up.
We are working toward AL then Radio. I already saw the same path for tech.
Spies will arrive in Vienne shortly. We've got to be close.
Details tomorrow when I finish up.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,074
1775 AD
The push city along the Zulu border is taking too long. It is still just 30%. This is our #1 trouble front. I hire 2 artists in Ondini for 8 more CPT.
I also hire 2 artists in Prayaga. Still takes ages for the next border expansion, but it may be the only way to the southern Zulu city. I cancel the spy, as there are still some culture buildings available.
Nothing has changed my worry that the Zulu front is our highest potential to lose this game.
I start the assault on Chartres. We need to be working on multiple cities at once. I knock it down to 1 unit, and we now have a 6.25% revolt chance.
I hire two artists in Yeha.
Any city that has the potential to get culture into another city should have artists hired. All the EP in the world isn't worth crap if we don't have target cities for military attacks.
Get artists and at least a theater into all border cities first.
(IT) This is a NICE event! Need I even say I picked the third choice?
We got internal spread to Yeha and Ayodhya. The external spread was 4 cities in Ethiopia.
1780 AD
SB broke free from Zara. We need that PITA gone, so I start a war to get rid of his last city.
Ondini has been confused. I put a temple at the top of the queue. We need every possible culture point in this city.
I just confused Shaka again.
1795 AD
After reading Rolo's comments, I decide to NOT continue pounding on Snaketown. No sense in taking the only Confucianism city from Brennus.
We are almost done with spy missions in Verlamion. I just got a path to attack it from. Just need a handful more missions to get it above 50% us.
We now have access to Tartar.
Vienne is going to be a pain. The cost is so high, that we have to wait for the 50% discount.
I put Zara back into slavery.
(IT) BLEH - All I can do with the AP is vote on the next leader.
1800 AD
Verlamion now has a chance to flip to us.
Still working on the game - will post the rest later tonight.
The push city along the Zulu border is taking too long. It is still just 30%. This is our #1 trouble front. I hire 2 artists in Ondini for 8 more CPT.
I also hire 2 artists in Prayaga. Still takes ages for the next border expansion, but it may be the only way to the southern Zulu city. I cancel the spy, as there are still some culture buildings available.
Nothing has changed my worry that the Zulu front is our highest potential to lose this game.
I start the assault on Chartres. We need to be working on multiple cities at once. I knock it down to 1 unit, and we now have a 6.25% revolt chance.
I hire two artists in Yeha.
Any city that has the potential to get culture into another city should have artists hired. All the EP in the world isn't worth crap if we don't have target cities for military attacks.
Get artists and at least a theater into all border cities first.
(IT) This is a NICE event! Need I even say I picked the third choice?
We got internal spread to Yeha and Ayodhya. The external spread was 4 cities in Ethiopia.
1780 AD
SB broke free from Zara. We need that PITA gone, so I start a war to get rid of his last city.
Ondini has been confused. I put a temple at the top of the queue. We need every possible culture point in this city.
I just confused Shaka again.
1795 AD
After reading Rolo's comments, I decide to NOT continue pounding on Snaketown. No sense in taking the only Confucianism city from Brennus.
We are almost done with spy missions in Verlamion. I just got a path to attack it from. Just need a handful more missions to get it above 50% us.
We now have access to Tartar.
Vienne is going to be a pain. The cost is so high, that we have to wait for the 50% discount.
I put Zara back into slavery.
(IT) BLEH - All I can do with the AP is vote on the next leader.
1800 AD
Verlamion now has a chance to flip to us.
Still working on the game - will post the rest later tonight.
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- Aug 15, 2001
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1802 AD
I just got access to attack Shangian.
I queue up a factory, then the Pentagon in Delhi. We are going to have to fight a lot more, so I want US to get all the XP.
We have to clean up a few stray cavalry that cross our borders. First time I've seen Brennus cross the borders during my set.
1804 AD
Tartar now enjoys Confucianism.
1806 AD
Once again I confuse Shaka.
Vienne is expensive - with a 50% discount it still cost 320 EP to spread culture for the first mission.
Agra gained a MI.
1808 AD
I confused one of Pacal core cities. He will be part of the AP for a long time.
(IT) Zara is a trading mood, so I ship him spare wheat for some fish.
Pacal cuts what is will give for horses. We are now swapping horses straight for gold.
Physics completes, and we have 2 sources of Uranium. One is internal enough to be safe from pillaging.
1810 AD
Brennus SoD is on the move. It is now visible above Verlamion.
We steal military science and combustion from Pacal. It is pretty cheap with the 50% discount and the city having our state religion.
(IT) GAG - Brennus adopts free speech.
RNG hates us why 3 spies being found by Vienne.
1812 AD
The SoD is stuck, staying in the exact spot. Trouble is more of our troops are now stuck watching it.
(IT) Zara declares war on US.
SB became his vassal again.
1814 AD
This is ugly. Brennus SoD has entered our borders just as Zara declares war.
Finally get some progress. Our culture now touches Nongoma.
Summary:
I've conceded Madras isn't worth whipping / drafting much. It is building a factory, and having tiles converted to be a production city. It was never a good GT choice, as it should have been pure food for GT.
Spy missions are running very focused - Vienne in the east.
Spies are moving to the new target of Nongoma.
We need to make a decision about peace with Brennus. Do we try and kill that stack first? There are plenty of nearby units to hit with.
I didn't draft / whip / upgrade yet near Zara border. I'll leave that for Rolo to decide.
It was a very disappointing set for me. Despite playing more than 10 turns, I didn't get a new city.
r_rolo1 - Up
Thy_Spellcraft - on deck
nocho -
lymond -
LKendter - just played
I just got access to attack Shangian.
I queue up a factory, then the Pentagon in Delhi. We are going to have to fight a lot more, so I want US to get all the XP.
We have to clean up a few stray cavalry that cross our borders. First time I've seen Brennus cross the borders during my set.
1804 AD
Tartar now enjoys Confucianism.
1806 AD
Once again I confuse Shaka.
Vienne is expensive - with a 50% discount it still cost 320 EP to spread culture for the first mission.
Agra gained a MI.
1808 AD
I confused one of Pacal core cities. He will be part of the AP for a long time.
(IT) Zara is a trading mood, so I ship him spare wheat for some fish.
Pacal cuts what is will give for horses. We are now swapping horses straight for gold.
Physics completes, and we have 2 sources of Uranium. One is internal enough to be safe from pillaging.
1810 AD
Brennus SoD is on the move. It is now visible above Verlamion.
We steal military science and combustion from Pacal. It is pretty cheap with the 50% discount and the city having our state religion.
(IT) GAG - Brennus adopts free speech.
RNG hates us why 3 spies being found by Vienne.
1812 AD
The SoD is stuck, staying in the exact spot. Trouble is more of our troops are now stuck watching it.
(IT) Zara declares war on US.
SB became his vassal again.
1814 AD
This is ugly. Brennus SoD has entered our borders just as Zara declares war.
Finally get some progress. Our culture now touches Nongoma.
Summary:
I've conceded Madras isn't worth whipping / drafting much. It is building a factory, and having tiles converted to be a production city. It was never a good GT choice, as it should have been pure food for GT.
Spy missions are running very focused - Vienne in the east.
Spies are moving to the new target of Nongoma.
We need to make a decision about peace with Brennus. Do we try and kill that stack first? There are plenty of nearby units to hit with.
I didn't draft / whip / upgrade yet near Zara border. I'll leave that for Rolo to decide.
It was a very disappointing set for me. Despite playing more than 10 turns, I didn't get a new city.
r_rolo1 - Up
Thy_Spellcraft - on deck
nocho -
lymond -
LKendter - just played
r_rolo1
King of myself
LK, a save would be nice ...
Anyway, it looks that you left me with a nice hot potato in hands
Anyway, it looks that you left me with a nice hot potato in hands
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- Aug 15, 2001
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Save attached.
As for the hot potatoes - you did want me to attack SB, didn't you?
Yes, it was a lousy hand off point. However, I feel we should have some team discussion about trying to kill Brennus SoD. If we leave it alive, it will turn on someone else...
However, we are just barely getting infantry out of the gate. All our military cities went factory to build them faster, and then are just coming back on-line for troops.
As for the hot potatoes - you did want me to attack SB, didn't you?
Yes, it was a lousy hand off point. However, I feel we should have some team discussion about trying to kill Brennus SoD. If we leave it alive, it will turn on someone else...
However, we are just barely getting infantry out of the gate. All our military cities went factory to build them faster, and then are just coming back on-line for troops.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I started the set in a somewhat complicated position with a 2 front war ( 3 , if you count the 1 tile menace of SB incrusted in our territory ). The biggest problem was definitely the celtic stack that you can see in LK report ... we didn't had enough to counter it in the field without some nasty losses, so I simply retreated to the next city and waited for the bombing ( both Zara and brennus had excrutiatingly low siege counts, so it was just a matter of waiting in place for the infantry to come )
There were 2 issues that griped me in the inherited save:
- The fact that the oil fort in our northern border was down. Brennus had some seriously nasty cuirs/cavs around and it was defitely a bad idea to tore it down. I could only hold that position by drafting some infantry.
- 2 spies in Bulawayo with 50 discount waiting for Godot. Ondini will take ages to border pop enough to get there ( IIRC it has got there yet ) so why having those there ? They could definitely be more useful elsewhere ...
Anyway, my plan was simple:
- Retreat from brennus and wait from his attack in one of our cities. He had little siege , so we had time to drop a handful of CG infantries in that city east of Vermalion ( forgot to take notes of the name ) that was Brennus SoD target. Also continue to clean Shangian in the south.
- Draft infantry in the north to face the Celtic mounted there and the SB rifles ( yup, Zara gave him rifling in t1 of the set ) This was a minor theatre though.
- Hunker in Yeha against the Ethiopian SoD. That one had little siege and was heavily outdated, so a couple of drafted infantries would be able to hold it perfectly, and even to clean marauders.
- Techwise ... continue with the script. Physics->Electricity->Radio. After that either artilery or flight. Make some airships
-Spywise , basically continue to follow the plan I posted some posts up: missions in Vienne until it reached the celtic cap and missions in Zululand ( Lk let me with Nongoma already with culture of ours, so i started from there ). And make more spies
I was able to follow up that plan perfectly :/ brennus took quite some turns to reach and to bomb their target city , so I had more than time to bring enough infantry to cut their stack in pieces while defending . The stack from Ethiopia would take even longer ... if i hadn't smashed it during the bombing using infantry. SB + brennus gave me a run for my money near our GT city, but drafting saved the day.
But the real run for my money came past the half of the set... first this:
Having a city of the only AI that is teching decently filled with our culture is a ok thing, but I prefer it in my hand ... so I chose to get Tartar. The vote passed:
As you might have noticed Snaketown flipped to us in the same IBT:
And to add , it was the same IBT where brennus decided to suicide his whole stack in our city ( we had minimal losses ). That was enough for getting what I wanted from him:
Actually I got more 100 g in top of it.
I took the peace and founded a city right in the top of the Celtic border
We would also found the "City?" spot later.
Some more turns and we got the Pentagon. In hindsight maybe I should had gone to org Rel after this ...
Radio came fast ... and obvioulsy I started Eifell ( and the other 2 hits , OFC )
Anyway, back into the Ethiopian front ...
Adulis is isolated , labileia and Adis Adeba are one tile away of being able to be attacked.
We got 2 GP: a GG ( on ice: wasn't sure if it would better to make another medic GG or to settle him ) and a GSpy near the end of the set.
As you can see I slotted flight ... planes are faster than arties and we could defintely get some interdiction flights over our SoD to cover from airships. but the real objective is rocketry: it opens nukes and guided missiles, both able to kill that last pesky defender without conquering the city.
Some end of set pics:
First, EP and tech screens:
Quite healthy in both regards, but we might be in fumes EP wise as soon as we start hitting everyone ( should not take long ). We will most likely need to run the EP slider soon.
Cities currently with revolt risk to us:
There are others with a majority of our culture ...
AP BUG screen:
Vote in 2 turns
Some regards:
- The map strategy I devised is working well enough: we are curently well inside Zululand ( getting from the Zulu last city to maya proper will need some work, but nothing that massed spies can't do. Same to get to Paris from the south ) and we got to Isca, in the French-celtic border. We might need to push our French EP slider soon because ...
- The zulu will lose atleast city soon to the French, since there is a a decent French SoD going against them in out teritory. The Zulu tried their hands and failed, BTW. Not sure how to deal with it, since it is already too late to close borders with the french ... maybe call a AP peace ? We don't want the Zulu being a vassal for the time being.
-Techwise ... definitely flight->rocketry, for the reasons I already exposed above. After that ... plastics or fission. We should be able to steal arties in between.
- Militarywise, get more infantry and some airships. we are good for now, I think.
- We should railroad through France and Zululand to get more spped to our spies. i haen't done that because our workers hae been busy replacing spy.wrecked stuff, but we should do that fast.
There were 2 issues that griped me in the inherited save:
- The fact that the oil fort in our northern border was down. Brennus had some seriously nasty cuirs/cavs around and it was defitely a bad idea to tore it down. I could only hold that position by drafting some infantry.
- 2 spies in Bulawayo with 50 discount waiting for Godot. Ondini will take ages to border pop enough to get there ( IIRC it has got there yet ) so why having those there ? They could definitely be more useful elsewhere ...
Anyway, my plan was simple:
- Retreat from brennus and wait from his attack in one of our cities. He had little siege , so we had time to drop a handful of CG infantries in that city east of Vermalion ( forgot to take notes of the name ) that was Brennus SoD target. Also continue to clean Shangian in the south.
- Draft infantry in the north to face the Celtic mounted there and the SB rifles ( yup, Zara gave him rifling in t1 of the set ) This was a minor theatre though.
- Hunker in Yeha against the Ethiopian SoD. That one had little siege and was heavily outdated, so a couple of drafted infantries would be able to hold it perfectly, and even to clean marauders.
- Techwise ... continue with the script. Physics->Electricity->Radio. After that either artilery or flight. Make some airships
-Spywise , basically continue to follow the plan I posted some posts up: missions in Vienne until it reached the celtic cap and missions in Zululand ( Lk let me with Nongoma already with culture of ours, so i started from there ). And make more spies
I was able to follow up that plan perfectly :/ brennus took quite some turns to reach and to bomb their target city , so I had more than time to bring enough infantry to cut their stack in pieces while defending . The stack from Ethiopia would take even longer ... if i hadn't smashed it during the bombing using infantry. SB + brennus gave me a run for my money near our GT city, but drafting saved the day.
But the real run for my money came past the half of the set... first this:
Spoiler :
Having a city of the only AI that is teching decently filled with our culture is a ok thing, but I prefer it in my hand ... so I chose to get Tartar. The vote passed:
Spoiler :
As you might have noticed Snaketown flipped to us in the same IBT:
Spoiler :
And to add , it was the same IBT where brennus decided to suicide his whole stack in our city ( we had minimal losses ). That was enough for getting what I wanted from him:
Spoiler :
Actually I got more 100 g in top of it.
I took the peace and founded a city right in the top of the Celtic border
Spoiler :
We would also found the "City?" spot later.
Some more turns and we got the Pentagon. In hindsight maybe I should had gone to org Rel after this ...
Spoiler :
Radio came fast ... and obvioulsy I started Eifell ( and the other 2 hits , OFC )
Spoiler :
Anyway, back into the Ethiopian front ...
Spoiler :
Adulis is isolated , labileia and Adis Adeba are one tile away of being able to be attacked.
We got 2 GP: a GG ( on ice: wasn't sure if it would better to make another medic GG or to settle him ) and a GSpy near the end of the set.
Spoiler :
As you can see I slotted flight ... planes are faster than arties and we could defintely get some interdiction flights over our SoD to cover from airships. but the real objective is rocketry: it opens nukes and guided missiles, both able to kill that last pesky defender without conquering the city.
Some end of set pics:
First, EP and tech screens:
Spoiler :
Quite healthy in both regards, but we might be in fumes EP wise as soon as we start hitting everyone ( should not take long ). We will most likely need to run the EP slider soon.
Cities currently with revolt risk to us:
Spoiler :
There are others with a majority of our culture ...
AP BUG screen:
Spoiler :
Vote in 2 turns
Some regards:
- The map strategy I devised is working well enough: we are curently well inside Zululand ( getting from the Zulu last city to maya proper will need some work, but nothing that massed spies can't do. Same to get to Paris from the south ) and we got to Isca, in the French-celtic border. We might need to push our French EP slider soon because ...
- The zulu will lose atleast city soon to the French, since there is a a decent French SoD going against them in out teritory. The Zulu tried their hands and failed, BTW. Not sure how to deal with it, since it is already too late to close borders with the french ... maybe call a AP peace ? We don't want the Zulu being a vassal for the time being.
-Techwise ... definitely flight->rocketry, for the reasons I already exposed above. After that ... plastics or fission. We should be able to steal arties in between.
- Militarywise, get more infantry and some airships. we are good for now, I think.
- We should railroad through France and Zululand to get more spped to our spies. i haen't done that because our workers hae been busy replacing spy.wrecked stuff, but we should do that fast.
With more than 200 turns to go still we might actually win this. Especially happy to see the progress towards Shaka.
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- Aug 15, 2001
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I agree 100% there! Going to look more later, but we may be able to steal a city from Shaka next set via AP.
Getting Tartar is very nice IMO - permanent gold source AND we took something away from Pacal (who is still our #1 threat to win).
r_rolo1
King of myself
Updated the report
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In case I needed to do stuff with Shaka such as get him confused again. I used one of the spies left me for that reason.
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Nice progress fellas. Tartar was a nice surprise and will be key for our progress on the Ethopians.
Although Cristo has limited usefulness, we should build it anyway. In case you don't know, Spiritual trait givse a 100% bonus on the wonder. While we have no anarchy anyway, Cristo still allows for more frequent civic changes. Regardless, it is a bit more culture too.
I see no point in running Theo anymore, especially with Pentagon in. OR would probably be best if we continue running a religion, otherwise FR.
I think some cities could use Factories. They are cheap by the way.
Seems like we forgot about Sushi. Let's place a city on full-time Exec production or Exec/Spy alternating production until we get Sushi spread to all border cities and really every city for that matter.
Has Burgundian experienced revolt at all? If not, I say we hit it with a few spies. I'd like to get this city and SB out of the way asap.
Pacal has 15 gpt that he should be paying to us.
Although Cristo has limited usefulness, we should build it anyway. In case you don't know, Spiritual trait givse a 100% bonus on the wonder. While we have no anarchy anyway, Cristo still allows for more frequent civic changes. Regardless, it is a bit more culture too.
I see no point in running Theo anymore, especially with Pentagon in. OR would probably be best if we continue running a religion, otherwise FR.
I think some cities could use Factories. They are cheap by the way.
Seems like we forgot about Sushi. Let's place a city on full-time Exec production or Exec/Spy alternating production until we get Sushi spread to all border cities and really every city for that matter.
Has Burgundian experienced revolt at all? If not, I say we hit it with a few spies. I'd like to get this city and SB out of the way asap.
Pacal has 15 gpt that he should be paying to us.
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Tartar is nice because we have a pathway to start taking Zulu cities via the AP that are connected to our empire.
Plus we now have a natural source of gold.
I fully expect to continue running a religion. If we don't have a religion, the AP becomes useless. Only full members can claim cities. I know want to see if we can snack a few Zulu cities that way. We still have a long way to go to get to Pacal.
How much do we want from the war? We can get the junk size 4 city right now. It is still another city in our hands (spies if nothing else).
Plus we now have a natural source of gold.
I fully expect to continue running a religion. If we don't have a religion, the AP becomes useless. Only full members can claim cities. I know want to see if we can snack a few Zulu cities that way. We still have a long way to go to get to Pacal.
How much do we want from the war? We can get the junk size 4 city right now. It is still another city in our hands (spies if nothing else).
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I'm actually wondering if we should focus more on Shaka actually. We have a line on Brennus and Zara - and really not that far off getting a foothold on DG. Pacal on the other hand has quite a buffer. Not saying we don't keep some spy focus on Zara/Brennus, but put a more focused effort on the Zulu to chomp a path to the Mayans.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Hmmm that would makr me up.. Got it!
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oh...and as a general comment, let's not forget to keep on eye out for Sec Bureaus in target cities. We want to destroy those bad boys and usually those cities will have a tough time rebuilding them. I'd kill their theatres too.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I do recommend that we don't stop the war until we get 2 things:
- the death of SB ( here the cruise missiles will definitely help )
-enough war success to get Debre and Matara in a peace deal. Neither has AP religion and both will be hard to reach culturally wise, especially Debre.
Zara is backwards techwise, so we can do this with a minimal army ( especially after we get planes and missiles ) even if we have other wars in hand.
About Shaka: the focus for now is to reach Pacal. After we reach it, we should start working on the flips/AP grabs. BTW do not get that Zulu city that borders Pacal via AP before we can reach pacal, otherwise it is basically game over ( we should get the option of getting the city via AP in the next vote ... that is why I'm warning against it
). Both getting to pacal and to get to paris will need a 5 ring culture and we will need a lot of EP missions for that :/Anyway, given what happened last game, I would focus seriously in getting acess first and then worry about flips as a general rule and only worry about flips when we can actually flip them ( that is, when we have means of wiping out the garrisons ).
FR is a big NO. LK already stated part of the reason: the AP to get cities ( unfortunately limited now due to brennus losing their only confu city ) ... the second is the benefits of OR. I could see the case for FS, but IMHO our situation now is not one where we need direct city culture pressure , but of spy powered culture inside enemy cities, so Nat serves us better. In fact, i think we might need to start pumping out the EP slider soon since we will start making missions in all the alive civs except SB and I'm not sure if the EP output in hand is enough for that ...
Anyway in big lines, what i propose is this:
- focus on geting to the French and Mayan cores. this is the primal task IMHO
- Continue warring Ethiopia until we get those 2 cities and the death of SB. Make EP missions in Labileia and Adis Adeba to allow attack in those cities and to get to the Ethiopian cap.
- Prepare to war brennus again. we have no reason to be in peace with him now that he is not part of the AP. Make missions to allow revolt risk in the border cities and acess to more core cities ( I'm talking specifically of Dur (whatever
) , that city WNW of Vermalion and maybe Vienne . When peace is possible try to get cities that aren't in revolt risk yet ...- Same in lesser degree to Shaka .we can still nab cities via AP and we can only expect that Shaka will not be able to ccope with revolt risks if the french SoD makes the dent in their forces I'm expecting to.... but after we get to the mayan core, get all the cities we can via AP and have railroads ready in their land, i don't see any reason to not make war with him... but we should also avoid him of munching Shaka ... so prepare to broker a peace deal.
- I'm starting to get worried with the French ... I would say that after my set, they are the #2 threat to our win ( since we basically nullified Brennus ). Anyway, railroand acess to their land to get faster spy movement against him and Brennus and start running Ep missions in his cities as soon as possible . I do not see reason to make war with them for now.
- Pacal ... well, we need to reach him first and the focus should be that one. The main danger to avoid is that he starts zooming to space, but we are still far from that. We should spread more confu in his cities: he will not get out of FR to threathen our AP hold and it will help with shrine cash and EP discounts
- Other thing to consider is the UN. We will not build it for a while ( since the AP is still giving stuff to us
) , so there is a danger of seeing it built by Pacal. I *think* we can block most of the resolutions, though, even if we can't get to sec general :/ ... but it would be nice to see the open borders resolution coming out to get brennus back into the AP - Techwise ... there are more 3 techs I would like to have before the end of the game besides the already mentioned flight and rocketry : Adv flight ( gunships ), fission ( nukes ) and plastics ( TGD ) ... and all the prereqs OFC
Artilery would also be nice, but I expecting to get it via pacal ( the AI rarely goes rocketry via flight ). Nukes are probably not a good thing to use given that damned GW feature, but nothing beats the 10 war sucess per unit usage of nukes ( not mentioning the other effects ) ... call it a trump card.Oh , and lymond says, sabotage SBs , especially of the guys we are in war with ( the Ai tends to get in unit frenzy and sometimes forgets to rebuild them
)Thy is up and got it, nocho is on deck
